Lack of muscle

[mum24dog]

I won't be at an agility how for the next month so can't get the answer for myself so I'm hoping you guys can help.

 

Our 7 year old BC has always looked a bit spindly at the back end compared to his front and has always used his front end to power through the weaves. This hasn't been a problem performancewise.

 

A few weeks ago he looked like his left hind leg was a little stiff after one show and he wasn't quite putting equal weight on it so we had him checked out at the vet.

 

Xrays showed that his hips weren't perfect but they were unlikely to be causing him a problem and although there was a slight amount of play in his right stifle it was not enough to cause conern.

 

The x rays were referred to the local orthopaedic practice and discussed by my vet and the consultant agreed with my vet that he didn't need to see him.

 

One thing that did surprise my vet though was the fact that his hind legs were nowhere near as well muscled as she would have expected, although they were equally lacking in bulk.

 

This is a dog that has always had a really powerful leap and has never had any issues.

 

I'll admit that we've just taken it for granted that he has always been as well muscled as he needed to be and for all we know his hind legs could always have been like that. His performance is no different now than it has always been.

 

We are making a concerted effort to try and build up his muscles more to support his hips but what I'm wondering is how many other active dogs fall into the category of not particularly well muscled? His aren't noticeably wasted, just not bulky.

 

My daughter is paranoid now as he is her only competing dog but to me he looks fine after a course of anti-inflammatories.

 

 

[Blackdawgs]

In my experience, vets stop at the hips and stifles, but there are are other things that can cause issues in the rear end. I would try to find a rehab vet. Lower back and SI issues can cause muscle atropy and stiffness. Speaking from personal experience one can have significant pain in these areas and not limp. I suspect that dogs are the same.

[TEC]

You have taken appropriate measures to have him checked, and the anti-inflammatories seemed to have loosened him up. That has to be reassuring

 

My dog (the one in the avatar, years ago as a youngster) went through a period of a few months in which she woke-up from sleeping to favor one of her hind legs. X-rays were taken and a course of NSAIDS cleared it up, although the young DVM remarked that, to her, the described symptoms indicated possible arthritis. X-rays did not support her diagnosis, as she explained.

 

My dog, at 35 lbs and now 8 years of age, has a finely built bone structure, and has IMO low normal muscle mass. To me she looks in good proportion, however others will say, "...she is not an ounce overweight." The vet had advised that increasing muscle mass protects joints from arthritic problems. She suggested swimming, which we do in the warm months, along with her other normal activities. In winter she pulls light loads over snow/ice. For whatever reason, there has been no reoccurance. As I look back on it, I think the rocky terrain on which she was moving stock at one time caused bruising-type injuries to her feet and legs.

 

To answer your question, my dog is finely built and continues to be modestly muscled, but she is doing well with stockwork several days a week, disc, and my own brand of backyard agility. -- Best Wishes, TEC

[Sue R]

I have always wondered why my dogs seemed to have pretty puny hind end muscling, no matter how fit they seemed to be. Since we have done rehab after Celt's TPLO surgery and then for Dan's very mildly-luxating patella, I have found that it takes a different sort of exercise to build up hind-end muscle rather than just running, which my dogs have traditionally done quite a bit.

 

First off, we do more walks. The therapist feels that a dog can "cheat" less when walking. In other words, the dog has to utilize all four legs more evenly and, of course, the impact is less than when running so it is less wearing on joints.

 

Second, we do exercises designed to strengthen the hind end, increase muscling, improve balance and fine motor skills, and help "even out" the muscling in the hind end so that the dog is more evenly balanced in using the hind end.

 

For this, we started with three-legged stands, and graduated to two-legged stands (to improve balance and fine motor skills); did sit-stands, making sure that the dog is not coming forward on the stand part of the exercise but is rather stepping out back to stand up (so I make sure the front end is not moving forward when standing) and stepping under himself to sit, and so must be really using those hind end muscles (sort of a dog push-up with the hind end); did sideways walking (to develop the often-neglected muscles and control that sideways movements require); and walking up and down stairs (which is the most strenuous exercise and only comes after a certain proficiency with the other exercises, at least in the case of Celt, who was recovering from surgery and time off. (There are photos of the three-legged and two-legged stands here - http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=33480&page=4 - starting with the 4th page and continuing on on a few later pages.)

 

I would also be swimming them regularly if I had the facility to do so. I want a pond! They primarily get to swim when we visit a friend's farm where there is a suitable pond or go to the beach, where we exercise regularly on the soundside with lots of water play and swimming.

 

For both Celt and Dan (Celt having come off surgery and several months of limited activity, and Dan being fit and active all along), we saw visible and measurable improvements in strength, flexibility, fine motor skills, muscle mass, and muscular support of the hind end.

 

I don't know if any of this might be of value or interest to you in your situation.

[gcv-border]

We are making a concerted effort to try and build up his muscles more to support his hips but what I'm wondering is how many other active dogs fall into the category of not particularly well muscled? His aren't noticeably wasted, just not bulky.

 

I don't know the answer to your question, and am not sure that anyone could give a definitive answer.

 

I agree with your plan to start building and conditioning his rear-end muscles. I can't imagine that there would be a negative to that strategy.

 

IMO, if he is performing well and is not hurt (which you have already determined by consulting with a vet and an orthopaedist), he might have the correct level of muscling - for his body type and for his chosen activity. On a sled dog, I would expect more rear-end muscling. I think this would be analogous to a marathon runner vs. a football (American) player (within reason).

 

Jovi

[mum24dog]

Sorry - posted in error.

[mum24dog]

I have always wondered why my dogs seemed to have pretty puny hind end muscling, no matter how fit they seemed to be. Since we have done rehab after Celt's TPLO surgery and then for Dan's very mildly-luxating patella, I have found that it takes a different sort of exercise to build up hind-end muscle rather than just running, which my dogs have traditionally done quite a bit.

 

First off, we do more walks. The therapist feels that a dog can "cheat" less when walking. In other words, the dog has to utilize all four legs more evenly and, of course, the impact is less than when running so it is less wearing on joints.

 

Second, we do exercises designed to strengthen the hind end, increase muscling, improve balance and fine motor skills, and help "even out" the muscling in the hind end so that the dog is more evenly balanced in using the hind end.

 

For this, we started with three-legged stands, and graduated to two-legged stands (to improve balance and fine motor skills); did sit-stands, making sure that the dog is not coming forward on the stand part of the exercise but is rather stepping out back to stand up (so I make sure the front end is not moving forward when standing) and stepping under himself to sit, and so must be really using those hind end muscles (sort of a dog push-up with the hind end); did sideways walking (to develop the often-neglected muscles and control that sideways movements require); and walking up and down stairs (which is the most strenuous exercise and only comes after a certain proficiency with the other exercises, at least in the case of Celt, who was recovering from surgery and time off. (There are photos of the three-legged and two-legged stands here - http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=33480&page=4 - starting with the 4th page and continuing on on a few later pages.)

 

I would also be swimming them regularly if I had the facility to do so. I want a pond! They primarily get to swim when we visit a friend's farm where there is a suitable pond or go to the beach, where we exercise regularly on the soundside with lots of water play and swimming.

 

For both Celt and Dan (Celt having come off surgery and several months of limited activity, and Dan being fit and active all along), we saw visible and measurable improvements in strength, flexibility, fine motor skills, muscle mass, and muscular support of the hind end.

 

I don't know if any of this might be of value or interest to you in your situation.

 

Thanks (and for the other replies) - yes, we are doing much of that, or as much as we can given the dog he is ie not cooperative, not liking swimming and likely to bite a stranger who tries to mess with him.

 

Walking in the canal by our house (if there are no evil swans about) is the best we can do for hydro. We tried swimming in the river last week and he wasn't keen, and most of the time the tides here are just too dangerous for sea swimming.

 

We had similar advice from our physio for my old dog's rehab after a cruciate repair a couple of years ago but I have bookmarked your thread as a refresher. You've prompted me to be rather more structured with our approach to him. it's not as clear cut as with my old dog as he seems OK now in himself.

 

We have been doing more on lead hill work and although we live in a bungalow and have no stairs there is a flight of stone steps we can use nearby.

 

Tonight we will be doing push ups (he has a cue for walking back from a sit) and walking sideways.

[gcv-border]

We have been doing more on lead hill work and although we live in a bungalow and have no stairs there is a flight of stone steps we can use nearby.

Re: hill work -- my rehab vet recommends using a harness and applying light pressure as you walk up the hill. (As he gains muscle, you can increase the pressure.) Get him to engage those rear end muscles - at a walk (as Sue has already explained.

 

Jovi

[Liz P]

Genetics also play a roll. Just look at retired racing greyhounds. They often still have lots of muscle in the rear. I've had Border Collies that I raced on my dog sledding team that never looked super muscled, and others that always had nice rears no matter what sort of exercise they were getting.

 

Jovi is correct though. For building muscle the rehab people recommend a harness and lots of walking/running up hills. In fact, when I needed more muscle on my dog sledding team, that's exactly what I did (run the team up lots of hills).

[Sue R]

I may have been confusing when I used the word "bulk" because my dogs actually have not increased their thigh circumference from what it was when they were fit - it is on the legs that were being used less (the legs they were favoring) that the increase in muscle has occurred to the point where it is now equal with the other leg.

 

I also do notice that even though the muscle circumference is essentially the same, the feel of the thigh muscles has changed - it's more firm now since doing the exercises.

 

We still continue to do them to maintain strength, evenness between the two hind legs, and balance, all of which should contribute to maintaining soundness and longevity, and help reduce arthritic changes.

 

I haven't tried a harness uphill although we do have plenty of hill to walk!

[mum24dog]

Re: hill work -- my rehab vet recommends using a harness and applying light pressure as you walk up the hill. (As he gains muscle, you can increase the pressure.) Get him to engage those rear end muscles - at a walk (as Sue has already explained.

 

Jovi

 

He does walk on a harness and he puts the pressure on himself so it's good to hear that it's what we need.

[mum24dog]

Genetics also play a roll. Just look at retired racing greyhounds. They often still have lots of muscle in the rear.

 

This is true. My 13 year old came to me at 7 months with huge hind leg muscles because she jumped up and down on her back legs all the time. She still does it but not as often and not as high, plus overall her level of activity isn't as high as it used to be, but she would still come under the category of "well muscled".

[mum24dog]

I may have been confusing when I used the word "bulk" because my dogs actually have not increased their thigh circumference from what it was when they were fit - it is on the legs that were being used less (the legs they were favoring) that the increase in muscle has occurred to the point where it is now equal with the other leg.

 

I also do notice that even though the muscle circumference is essentially the same, the feel of the thigh muscles has changed - it's more firm now since doing the exercises.

 

We still continue to do them to maintain strength, evenness between the two hind legs, and balance, all of which should contribute to maintaining soundness and longevity, and help reduce arthritic changes.

 

His problem isn't that he is using one leg less than the other, they are both the same, but we did a bit of work on getting him to walk sideways and one way is much better coordinated than the other.

 

That isn't surprising in itself but it's something to watch for if it continues even when he gets more proficient at the action.

 

Now we know his hips aren't perfect we will continue with the exercises and not let things slide.

[Sue R]

Re: hill work -- my rehab vet recommends using a harness and applying light pressure as you walk up the hill. (As he gains muscle, you can increase the pressure.) Get him to engage those rear end muscles - at a walk (as Sue has already explained.

 

Jovi

 

Wait! So I *should* let my dogs drag me up the hills? I'm all for that! And in the name of being good to the dogs...

[Sue R]

His problem isn't that he is using one leg less than the other, they are both the same, but we did a bit of work on getting him to walk sideways and one way is much better coordinated than the other.

 

That isn't surprising in itself but it's something to watch for if it continues even when he gets more proficient at the action.

 

Now we know his hips aren't perfect we will continue with the exercises and not let things slide.

 

Yes, we are starting with different problems but I think we all are working towards the same sort of goals, which are strength, muscle skills, evenness, and balance. Fitness does help a lot with supporting and stabilizing joints.

 

I'm not always consistent but I do find that when I don't have to do the passive range of motion exercises (which are the ones that take a bit more time), that the exercises we do don't take very long once I've figured out how to direct the dog for optimal results and the dog knows the drill. I just have to make myself do them as the dogs seem to look forward to and enjoy the one-on-one time (and the treats).

 

I find it interesting that both Celt and Dan respond differently to my body language when doing some exercises. For the sit/stands, it does not matter with Celt how I hold my hands but for Dan, I need to hold my hands up for the sit part and down for the stand part - he is more comfortable when he can put his head in a more level position for standing. Maybe his long back? And it's the same for backing up - Celt keeps his eyes on my face and so his head is up, even if I hold my hands down low. Dan needs my hands down low to do a straighter and more beneficial back-up. Again, maybe his long back? He doesn't seem to have any noticeable back pain recently but his build may just require a different posture to be comfortable than Celt's does. And so I modify my body and hand placements to get the best results, and it's taken a little testing and tweaking to find what works best for each of them.

[gcv-border]

Wait! So I *should* let my dogs drag me up the hills? I'm all for that! And in the name of being good to the dogs...

YES! That is my understanding. :^) I haven't done it for a while. Maybe I should start again on those days when I am more tired, and I take the dogs for a walk UP the hill.

 

Jovi

[Sue R]

YES! That is my understanding. :^) I haven't done it for a while. Maybe I should start again on those days when I am more tired, and I take the dogs for a walk UP the hill.

 

Jovi

 

I think you and I are on the same page here!