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Hi all. I've been reading this forum for several weeks but this is my first post. The information I've found here has been quite helpful.

 

I am looking for my first border collie pup and have done many hours of reading everything I can find and watching videos on youtube on everything pertaining to the breed. My new pup will be a companion as well as possibly a service dog. I plan to do lots of obedience training and maybe some obedience trails.

 

The most important things to me are intelligence and willingness to learn (and not too active for the breed).

 

I have been searching for breeders and have been looking at G Force Border Collies. Has anyone had any experience with or knowledge of them? I remember reading one topic of a new pup obtained from them on this forum.

 

Here is a link to the website:

http://www.gforcebordercollies.com

 

Thanks.

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Just glancing at the website, there are 3 litters in a short amount of time with lots of colored puppies. That would seem to indicate they are not breeding for stock working ability, which is what these boards state is the only reason to breed Border Collies. So, while I don't know this breeder (the name is ringing a bell), I would look elsewhere.

 

ETA I went back for a second glance and they talk about versatile Border Collies with no mention of using their dogs for stock work.

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Welcome to the BC Boards!

 

Please peruse "Read this First"

 

What is G Force breeding *for*? What accomplishments do they claim in their breeding stock? Do they register ABCA, or AKC? (the latter is, to me, a huge red flag).

 

I see health tests that really don't mean that much - TNS, for example, isn't an issue in working Border collies, only in show lines. Health guarantees are hard to call in if your family is attached to a puppy (besides, even if the breeder refunds the purchase price, that's often less than the cost of medical intervention).

 

Please spend more time reading the Boards to understand what this group's position is on the breeding of working Border collies. Please consider rescue. But if, in the end, you are determined to purchase a puppy from a breeder rather than rescuing, please support someone who is seeking to better the *working* Border collie. It's an extraordinary breed of dog.

 

ETA: also noted three litters in very short order - another "red flag" (but the system ate my first attempt at a reply)

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Thanks for the quick replies. The website said the pups are AKC or ABCA registered, some are both. I did read the "read first" page earlier and I knew there were some red flags such as three recent litters, many colors, AKC, etc. That's really why I was asking here.

 

I have considered rescue and have been looking, but I'm afraid of the prospect of "untraining" bad behaviors. I am a novice and want the best chance for success which I feel like a young pup would give me.

 

Thanks again.

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I'd be interested in seeing your dog's pedigree (at least on the sire's side). My understanding is that TNS has a negligible incidence in (U. S.) working Border collies, that it's primarily an issue in show lines.

I pm you. I don't like posting individual dogs on here that I don't own. :)

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Wow, I just got schooled... Tried to read the page called colors, ACK is right - I just wish I could come up with those cute names... "Caught Ewe Looking", that's catchy...

 

Gail (? OP), you might want to try asking for recommendations of breeders around you or go to a trial and talk to people there about their dogs.

 

Rebecca

 

Btw, Liz, I love the smiley...

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Good lord, what's with that bug-eyed, blue-eyed tiny puppy in the middle of their puppy page? "Chocolate merle?" He looks like he's not quite right, somehow.

Nobody who breeds for that much color is doing any service to the border collie breed. If she were breeding ... oh, I don't know, golden retrievers or pomeranians, I'm sure they'd be lovely pets. The breeder sounds very dedicated to doing things "right," but ... once again, they totally miss what the border collie really IS.

Ironic, though, that they breed for color and yet wrote a rant against people who charge more for one color over another. *sighh* A higher class of color breeder? At any rate, they're not breeding border collies for what a border collie should be, so my advice is to look elsewhere.
Respectfully submitted,


Gloria

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I have considered rescue and have been looking, but I'm afraid of the prospect of "untraining" bad behaviors. I am a novice and want the best chance for success which I feel like a young pup would give me.

 

Thanks again.

Gailminni, I got my BC through rescue and she came trained much better than I could have done myself. Most obedient dog I've ever owned and I didn't have to do a thing. Not saying they all come like that, but a good BC rescue knows the breed and will match you with a dog that's suitable for your household. If you're patient, you may find a really good adult dog with some training already on it, perhaps one that, like mine, couldn't cut it as a working dog. Anyway, don't assume that just because a dog is a rescue, they'll have bad behaviors or some other kind of problems.

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Thanks again for the posts.

 

I've really considered a rescue dog. I didn't mean to imply that a rescue has bad behavior, just perhaps not the behavior you want in a number of different areas. I read that when a dog does something just a few times it becomes a behavior. If I wasn't a novice it probably wouldn't matter to me.

 

I would like to do a lot of obedience training so I thought starting with a "clean slate" would probably make it easier for me to train.

 

I have not ruled out a rescue and I continue to look for one. I'm on a list for my state so if I see the right one I'll jump. As far as specific border collie rescue, there's none available in my state (Alabama) but I continue to check the website. My oldest daughter who lives in California said she would get mad at me if I didn't get a rescue dog.

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I think if you communicate with reputable rescues and tell them specifically what you're looking for (and consider dogs who have been fostered for a while so that their personalities and quirks are well known), you can find a dog that would be perfect for you in rescue. As a novice you're just as likely to allow problems to arise as anyone else, so a rescue isn't more likely to have behavioral/training issues than a dog you've raised yourself. The bonus with an adolescent rescue is that you're past some of the destructive puppy behaviors, not to mention housetraining.

 

That said, if you have your heart set on a puppy, there's nothing wrong with getting one as long as you're careful about where you get it from. I started with two adults and got a pup as my third border collie. By then, I actually had more of a clue about training, etc. One of those older dogs is no longer with me, but the other one is (at age 16), plus that little pup I got, who will be 12 this year. My rescue dogs did have some quirks (wouldn't really call them issues, but we learned together and it was a great ride. Plus with the adults, I could jog and rollerblade from the start instead of waiting for a pup to grow up and I also was able to start stockwork with both without having to wait for them to grow up. Win-win for me and them!

 

J.

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If this dog will possibly be a service dog I'd run far far away from sport and color lines as this breeder appears to be, especially with a name like G force. My BC is a service dog and he is 100% working bred. Nice and calm, though it took a lot of work admittedly. I've owned conformation and sport lines, and know many people who do as well. Not a good choice for what you're looking for, but more importantly not a good choice for the breed.

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I will be checking the working breed breeders next I think. I've been looking at Red Top Kennels webpage. I think they are well known to this board. I was very impressed by the owner"s credentials and accomplishments. He may have a dog that is not suitable for herding but would make a good companion, service dog.

 

Thank you Julie and Flamincomet.

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I think if you communicate with reputable rescues and tell them specifically what you're looking for (and consider dogs who have been fostered for a while so that their personalities and quirks are well known), you can find a dog that would be perfect for you in rescue. As a novice you're just as likely to allow problems to arise as anyone else, so a rescue isn't more likely to have behavioral/training issues than a dog you've raised yourself. The bonus with an adolescent rescue is that you're past some of the destructive puppy behaviors, not to mention housetraining.

 

That said, if you have your heart set on a puppy, there's nothing wrong with getting one as long as you're careful about where you get it from. I started with two adults and got a pup as my third border collie. By then, I actually had more of a clue about training, etc. One of those older dogs is no longer with me, but the other one is (at age 16), plus that little pup I got, who will be 12 this year. My rescue dogs did have some quirks (wouldn't really call them issues, but we learned together and it was a great ride.

 

J.

I would second every thing Julie said, she has way more experience than me though and always has great advice. My first two border collies were adult rescues, both quirky but great dogs that truthfully required very little effort to make great companions, they came house trained, one already had an excellent recall, all we really did was provide a little guidance on what we expected for manners. My husband and I learned so much from those dogs and the numerous foster dogs we have had that by the time we got our puppy (also a rescue) we had come to understand a lot more of what makes border collies tick and have been able to raise our current dog much more successfully than if we had started with him.

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TNS, for example, isn't an issue in working Border collies, only in show lines.

 

I'm sure I'll get flamed for daring to ask this, but here goes anyway . . .

 

According to Optigen, who offers genetic testing for TNS (http://optigen.com/opt9_tns_test_for_bc.html), "The TNS mutation is widely distributed, occurring in over 10% of the population of both working and show lines of Border Collies." (emphasis mine)

 

So why would it not be considered an issue in working border collies?

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