Penmyd Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 I have 2 four month old sisters. They have already mastered several basic commands eagerly. However, it seems when they are both outside with me loose in the yard, the "come" command is forgotten as they roll and tumble in play with each other. They will actually stop and look back at me when I call them back if they go a bit too far, as if they are snickering at me for trying.........and then run away together towards a forbidden zone while seemingly thumbing their noses at me. Help me out here. Is this merely age related and they will respond better with age? Or is this a sign that they will never be able to be trusted when out together due to the fact that they distract each other from listening to me? One-on-one with me they repsond much better. It just seems together they get cocky and have selective hearing. Also, one of them still poops in her crate from time to time. I know that's another issue, but these dogs have me perplexed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum McFarlane Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 those puppies seem like trouble! sorry i cant help but im think of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 What you describe is very, very typical. Dogs always behave differently, including more independently, where they're with another dog and not one-on-one with you. They probably won't grow out of it if you ignore it, especially since they have so many opportunities to bond with each other in preference to bonding with you, but they can be trained out of it. One thing I would try, to begin with, is to have them both trail a long light line, perhaps 20' long. (I would only do this when you're around, so you can free them if they get tangled.) I would make it a point of calling one or the other frequently, enforcing the recall if they ignore you (that's where the cord comes in, because you can catch it a lot easier than you can catch them). Don't chase her, or she'll think it's a game -- walk her down very slowly and deliberately if you have to, but make sure the dog who's called ends up next to you where you called her from, whether it's voluntary on her part or not. Than praise her, and let her go again. Call one of them again a few minutes later. Do this a LOT. When they realize they HAVE TO come when called, they will come when called. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Having just been through puppy hood with 2 littermates (Gyp & Rae), my advice to you is separate them when you want obedience. Ours were quite good at coming in when they went out without the other, but the two together were not good. Often we could get one to start coming when called only to be intercepted by the other wanting to play. Turnouts with both of them were longer than desired (by us) and usually accompanied by some shouting and/or gruffing, which really isn't good for either the dogs or the owners. There will be times when you'll want to or need to turn them out together, then I suggest bringing a well hidden lure (for us it would be a ball) to be brought out when you start calling them in. Be sure to reward only after you have them inside. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 aah, the old littermates topic... why people think two are better than one always perplexes me... but I digress.... basically the pups are having more fun with each other than you can offer (since they're probably more closely bonded to each other than they are to you), especially if the only option you're presenting is coming inside (play ends). Try to spend more total time playing and training each pup individually than the time they spend together. Yes, it's twice as much work, but that's to be expected with two pups. Always supervise their play together and practice calling them off of play with each other to you. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 2, who said anything about 2. Try 8 BCs & a Greyhound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 As usual, great advice from Eileen. Try to put yourself in a position where you will be able to win (i.e. with the dogs on a long lead). And make sure you do plenty of work with them separately as others have advised. Just an extra thought, especially if you?re thinking of doing competition obedience. I wouldn?t use the word ?Come? for the recall in play situation, since you may be teaching them inadvertently that they don?t have to obey, and also because in competition obedience, you want a precise sit in front in response to ?Come?, whereas out on a run, you probably just want them to come close and be under control so you can leash them if necessary. Mine are 7 weeks different in age ? nearly as bad as littermates ? but we?ve worked hard on ?This way? ? which for them means head in the direction I?m going, but you can still keep playing, and also ?Line up? - means stop what you?re doing and come up to me (for getting the lead on ? or more often just for treat/praise and release - I always make sure I handle their collars as I'm treating them, and then give them the release word). Now at 16/14 months, they?re pretty reliable, although we still work on it whenever we're out. They were taught this on long lead first, and in more confined spaces, and now we reinforce it while they?re off lead. If you haven?t done so already, it?s a good idea to make sure you have a ?release? word/phrase - for mine it?s ?Go free? ? so that you can teach them the difference between close control and freedom (but they still need to keep an eye on you.) Yes it is harder to get 2 trained ? it really does take twice the commitment ? but then that?s balanced by the sheer joy of watching the 2 play together, and the great grins on their Border Collie faces as they practise their twists and turns and body slams, and then snuggle up together using each other as a pillow. And Mark, as for 8 Border COllies and a greyhound - I'm not sure that that doesn't verge on insanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 Pipedream Farm = BC asylum Oh to make it even more insane our friend, Mary Brighoff, is living in her trailer next to our garage while she's between homes. That brings the dog count at Pipedream Farm up to 1 Greyhound, 1 JRT, and 14 BCs all for 3 people. Our sheep are tired and lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 when the sheep outnumber the dogs, it's time to get more sheep! that certainly sounds like an asylum!! LOL -L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 We did have more sheep, but many were turned into CASH (starter flock, chops, and culls). We'll just have to make more; and we're (well actually our ram) working on it as we talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Goosey Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 Eileen, Mark, and Laura gave good advice. Especially this: basically the pups are having more fun with each other than you can offer (since they're probably more closely bonded to each other than they are to you), especially if the only option you're presenting is coming inside (play ends). Try to spend more total time playing and training each pup individually than the time they spend together. Yes, it's twice as much work, but that's to be expected with two pups. Always supervise their play together and practice calling them off of play with each other to you.I have three dogs, and two of them would play together constantly if I let them. I make sure to spend lots of one on one time with each, and to involve myself in their games with each other. I do let them play with each other for short periods, but often break up the play too. Basically, I treat their play as if it is a resource that they must go through me to have access to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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