Serious problems with potty training, please help!

[maggiesmommy]

I am at wit's end. I know my dog is more than smart enough ot understand house-training. She knows about 35 commands and we're working on agility training right now. She's been through obedience training and doesn't show any signs of rebellion/dominance behavior toward anyone in my family.... But I've had her for five months and she's still peeing and pooping all over my floor, all the time.

I have tried everything. I work from home and I spent several weeks taking her outside hourly, around the clock, thinking that would help. She would still hold it while she was outside and then pee and poop the second she was out of my sight. I spent a few days dedicating my full-time, undivided attention to her-- so she couldn't sneak off for even a minute-- and that was the only time she had no accidents... But as soon as I had to get back to work and, you know, LIFE, the potty problems started all over again.

I tried puppy pads (no luck), wee-wee patches (no luck), crate training (we're still doing it)... But nothing's working. She still does about half of her pottying in the house.

Of course, she gets treats and praise every time she goes outside and she gets scolded every time I catch her in the process of going inside. (I know it's not okay to scold them *after* they've peed/pooped indoors.)

You have no idea how much money this is costing me; I've had to have my carpets steam-cleaned several times and I go through about $20 in carpet cleaner a week. And my house still stinks.

The really irritating thing is that when I've brought this up to people, like her vet and trainer, they've said that at this point they'd just recommend surrendering her to a shelter, but this suggestion infuriates me! I figure everyone here understands that a BC is part of the family; not something that you give away because it's inconvenient... Plus, she's at a very high risk for being euthanized because of her potty problems. My dog's my baby. I'm not getting rid of her.

Other peopl have suggested making her an "outside dog," but this isn't an option, either. Please don't judge me as I thought it through very carefully before adopting her, but I live in an apartment. I know many people say BCs can't be happy in apartmentss, but I believe any dog can be an "apartment dog" if it's getting sufficient exercise and stimulation. She gets constant attention and lots of exercise and she's in agility lessons, and, honestly, I think she's much better cared for than an "outside dog" whose only luxury is being allowed to roam outside with no human interaction.

 

If anyone has any suggestions on how I can finally make potty-training "click" for my pup, PLEASE help! I'm really at the end of my rope here.

[Gideon's girl]

Without knowing more about your routine I can only make generalizations. Basically though, if she doesn't go potty outside, she needs to go back in the crate. Period. The only time she should have time loose in the house is after she potties outside. If that doesn't work for you, then you need to tether her to you so she is never on her own somewhere in your house. Use a command word for pottying, but right now only use it when you know she is in the process of going, otherwise she really doesn't know what the word means. When she potties outside throw a party for her. If she doesn't potty, put her back in her crate until it is time to take her out again.

 

Scolding a dog that has pottied in the house only teaches her that you are not a good person to be around when she needs to go. It does not teach her where is an appropriate place to go, but she won't want to go in your presence, so it makes going on leash even more of a challenge. Next time she potties in the house, roll up a newspaper, and whack yourself for allowing it to happen.

[maggiesmommy]

Thanks for the advice. It makes a lot of sense that scolding her would be counterproductive; I didn't know about that. Even her obedience trainer and vet said that if I see her in the actual process of pottying inside, I should scold her, but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

[GentleLake]

Gideon's Girl's advice is spot on!

 

I'm assuming this is the same dog you posted about in another topic, the one you recently adpted that had come from difficult circumstances? If so, there may be underlying issues that you don't know about and she may be feeling some sort of tension around going outside. But it sounds like she's also feeling stress inside as well. She's probably terribly confused.

 

Scolding her when you see her going inside is why she's going ouit of sight to do it. Ignoring her and just taking her out immediatley would be a better option.

 

I totally agree w/ crating and tethering. Treat her like you would a wee pup. If you can't actively be watching her every move, put her in the crate where she's unlikely to have an accident. Take her out often, epsecially if she hasn't gone the last time you took jer out. Set her up for success, praise the successes and it will come.

 

You're on the right track with praising her each and every time she goes outside. Just don't stress her more by scolding if she has an accident inside. Maybe a quick "uh oh!" at most to mark that it's the soiling that's resulting in the aswift whisking outdoors, but the whole thing should be upbeat and positive.

 

One other thing . . . what do you do when she goes outside? I know you praise her, but then what? Do you go right back in the house? Or do you give her some time to play and explore? A lot of dogs pick up very quickly that outside time is over as soon as they potty, and they don't want to come back in. IOW, pottying indicates loss of outfoor time, so they don't want to potty outside and loose that novelty.

 

Your job now is to take a deeeeep breath, put the frustration behind you and start over from square one. If you can avoid allowing her any opprortunities to make mistakes and make going outside a happy occassion, she'll catch on.

 

A lot of time now being very diligent will pay off. If you slack off and allow her opprtunities to make mistakes in the house, it's all on you . . . . It'll happen.

[maggiesmommy]

Yes, GentleLake, this is the same dog. I got her five months ago when she was five months old... So not *too* recent of an adoption. I would have definitely expected her to have been trained by now.

I haven noticed that when she's peeing or pooping outside, she keeps her ears flat like she thinks she's in trouble, which might be a sign that she's confused or that she's got some kind of past trauma related to going outside. Who knows what she went through as a young pup?

I'm glad you guys told me about not scolding her. I had no idea I was making it worse. And now I feel bad.

Depending on how much time I have to spend, our outdoor time can be just a simple walk for ten minutes in hopes that she pees or poops, or a three-hour long romp at the dog park with other dogs, or a two-mile walk for exercise... It varies a lot. Usually when it's just the "going outside" ritual every hour, I just walk her around and praise her when she poops or pees. (I've been saying "Good potty! Good potty outside!" every time she does it since I got her.) We usually play a little while longer, but there are times I need to get back inside quickly, so sometimes we go straight inside... I hadn't thought about how she might be holding it so she can be outside longer.

[Star]

I got some very good advice on this forum when Star was being difficult to housetrain. I followed it diligently, and it has worked:

 

I tethered her to me when I worked from home, and took her out about every 20-30 minutes. Told her to go potty when we went outside, and threw a party when she did. Fortunately, I had a time period of about one week where I didn't have to leave the house for long. When I did leave, we put her back in her "kennel" which was the kitchen area gated off from the rest of the house. The second week, I continued to tether her/keep her in the kitchen--though I wasn't at home as much. I also extended the amount of time I waited to take her out.

 

Someone suggested she may have a favorite room in which to have her "accidents" and, in fact, once that was said I realized she did. So, I blocked of that room once we were done tethering until I felt confident she was done pottying in the house.

 

She is so reliable now! Another comment was that you have to start from square one, and never ever let her go in the house for this time period, or it won't work. Good luck!

[juliepoudrier]

How old is she? Although I will take a little puppy out quite frequently, but the time a dog is 6+ months old, she ought to be able to hold it for more than an hour. I think in addition to the crating/tethering in the house, I'd increase the time between potty breaks so that she might actually have to *go* potty when you take her outside. (In other words, going out is not about pottying to her because you go out constatly, so increase the time between potty runs and see if she's not more likely to go when you actually do take her out.)

 

J.

[gcv-border]

So far the advice is spot on - exactly what I would have given. (Thanks guys for saving me from a lot of typing!)

 

The only thing I can add is that I wouldn't trust her to be fully potty-trained for a good long while. What I mean is that if she is accident-free for 3-4 days in a row, don't assume she is potty-trained (although she may be). It is better to be sure, than have to start training all over again. I didn't trust my pup to be completely potty-trained (and run free in the house) for several months after he was accident-free. Yeah, sometimes I am a micro-manager, but I hate having to start over again and would rather spend some extra time making sure that a behavior is 'set' than letting my pup make a mistake.

 

Jovi

[maggiesmommy]

Thanks so much for the awesome advice, everyone!!!!!

[alligande]

What everyone else has said... I got my current dog at 4 months and he was "almost" house trained and I was not vigilant enough in the beginning, he was my first puppy and he did poop in the house usually in one place, and once he had that habit I realized we had to go backwards thanks to these boards. I followed everyone's advice used tethering, more crate time etc and one day when he was about 10 months old I realized there had been no more accidents for a couple of weeks and we never looked back.

[Gideon's girl]

So far the advice is spot on - exactly what I would have given. (Thanks guys for saving me from a lot of typing!)

 

The only thing I can add is that I wouldn't trust her to be fully potty-trained for a good long while. What I mean is that if she is accident-free for 3-4 days in a row, don't assume she is potty-trained (although she may be). It is better to be sure, than have to start training all over again. I didn't trust my pup to be completely potty-trained (and run free in the house) for several months after he was accident-free. Yeah, sometimes I am a micro-manager, but I hate having to start over again and would rather spend some extra time making sure that a behavior is 'set' than letting my pup make a mistake.

 

Jovi

This. Don't trust too soon or you will be back to square one.

[urge to herd]

 

Depending on how much time I have to spend, our outdoor time can be just a simple walk for ten minutes in hopes that she pees or poops, or a three-hour long romp at the dog park with other dogs, or a two-mile walk for exercise... It varies a lot. Usually when it's just the "going outside" ritual every hour, I just walk her around and praise her when she poops or pees. (I've been saying "Good potty! Good potty outside!" every time she does it since I got her.) We usually play a little while longer, but there are times I need to get back inside quickly, so sometimes we go straight inside... I hadn't thought about how she might be holding it so she can be outside longer.

 

 

A couple things. If you have your own yard, take her to the same general area for her elimination. When she pees or poops, just one 'Good girl', quietly, and maybe a special treat, that you give her at no other time. This ritual will get her to understanding that elimination is done with very little fuss, does earn her a reward, and she can predict what you want by your behavior. I added in the no fuss/no fanfare because some dogs don't like 'social pressure' and they do better with the no big deal approach. Don't play with her before she pees. More on this later.

 

If, when you take her outside to eliminate, she does not, give it a couple minutes and then back inside to be put in her crate or remain tethered to you. She does not get freedom until you know that she has eliminated. Again, no fuss. Take her out again in an hour or so, repeat the process. Right now, it sounds like she doesn't know what is coming - is this an elimination outing, is this a trip to the park, etc. Giving her more routine specifically around elimination might be helpful. I also agree that the time between elimination trips should be extended.

 

The 3rd thing is that when she does eliminate, tell her good girl, give her a special treat if you like, then do her favorite thing with her for just a couple minutes. If she likes tug or fetch or belly rubs, whatever, she's earned a bit of that by eliminating on command. She'll catch on quickly that elimination gets her good stuff, not eliminating doesn't. As you extend the time between potty trips, she'll actually have a need to pee, and that will feel good to her, too. Remember that the act of elimination itself feels good!

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[maggiesmommy]

You guys are amazingly helpful. Thank you so much for the advice!!!

[Sue R]

One more thought - the cleaning up inside process. Are you using an enzymatic cleaner that is made for this purpose? Commercial steam cleaners and home carpet cleaning devices may clean the carpet but you need the use of an enzymatic cleaner to actually "destroy" the scent that tells the dog, "This is the right place to go." In fact, cleaning the carpet without using this sort of thing first can oftentimes "set" the scent so that the enzymatic cleaner will not be as effective. Some cleaning products simply mask the scent with regards to our noses but do not destroy the scent for the dog's nose.

 

Check with your local pet supply store to find a product that is effective and safe on your carpets and floor.. I use Simple Solution.

[maggiesmommy]

Yeah, I've been using enzymatic cleaners-- the kind that soak into the underpadding and make that foamy stuff rise to the top. I've tried several brands with the same basic mechanism, all with enyzmes.

We've been mixing the advice I got here and working hard on potty-training and so far, no accidents. Knock on wood! Thanks for the advice again, everyone.

ETA: and one more question... How unusual is it for a dog as smart as a BC to have trouble learning appropriate elimination? It's confusing to me because I know my dog's smart enough to "get it" so I don't get why so many dumb dogs master it in just a week or two, when it's taking her months!

[Sue R]

Perhaps, before you got her, she learned otherwise - and you are having to unlearn something that she may have picked up readily and thoroughly, and through no fault of her own in her previous situation.

 

None of my dogs were trained very quickly, and none are dumb. Part of the problem for some was that I was not a very good trainer. Part of the problem for others was that they just were too occupied with other things to think about having to go outside, even when I was very consistent in my training.

 

This is one fact of life that I seem to see is very variable across breeds and owners.

[GentleLake]

 

 

ETA: and one more question... How unusual is it for a dog as smart as a BC to have trouble learning appropriate elimination? It's confusing to me because I know my dog's smart enough to "get it" so I don't get why so many dumb dogs master it in just a week or two, when it's taking her months!

 

Great that you've had a few accident free days! Woo hoo! This will build and before you know it you'll be home free. Just be careful not to let your guard down too soon. It's sooo easy to do, but each and every mistake will set her back for probably longer than the accident free period. So wait a few months w/ no mistakes before letting up your guard.

 

As far as how unusual it is, I doubt there's one easy answer. Yes, she's smart enough to get it, but from her point of view, she's been getting mixed signals. Now she has to unlearn all the confusing stuff and figure out the new (to her) rules.

 

6 years ago I adopted an approx. 2 y.o. rescue BC who'd been a stray. He'd been in his foster home for 2 weeks before I adopted him, and the foster mom said how frustrating it was because it didn't seem like he was getting the house training. But I brought him home and though he tried to mark a couple of times, he really already had it down. I treated him like a dog who wasn't house trained yet, watching him carefully and taking him out frequently, but really, he'd gotten it, apparently just coinsiding w/ the adoption. Sometimes it seems like they're not getting and one day, all of a sudden, they have an aha moment and never look back.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that she may not generalize house training to all indoor locations right away, so be on the lookout for potential mistakes when you take her into unfamiliar indoor surroundings. My male, who was intact & then immediately neutered when he was picked up at approx. 2 y.o. still wanted to mark in new indoor situations for quite a while. And I have an almost 15 y.o. female who marks as much as any male and I had to watch her for years when we'd first go into a new doggy rich indoor environment.

[maggiesmommy]

Thanks for the responses again, guys. I feel so bad. She's been in her crate almost all day today. She hasn't peed or pooped since about 9 this morning, and I kept taking her outside every hour and a half. When she hadn't gone again by 3:00, I went ahead and put her in her crate. I've been letting her out hourly to give her a chance to pee or poop, but she's still not doing it, so she's essentially been in her crate for four and a half hours now.

I know that four and a half hours in a crate isn't that bad, especially getting breaks where she gets to go outside and have an opportunity to potty, but I still feel really terrible. BCs are such active dogs and confinement to a crate feels cruel. Can someone reassure me that this isn't abusive?

[GentleLake]

Can't you keep an eye on her without keeping her in her crate all the time? Some people, including me, suggesting tethering her to you. And even when I'm house training a puppy, I'll let them out of their crates for supervised play time.

 

The key here is to be supervising the dog at all times, not just to keep her in the crate all day and night.

[maggiesmommy]

I can supervise her but not constantly. I work from home and all of her accidents have happened when I've been working. I tried tethering her to me while I worked yesterday but she found it very stressful and confusing because she didn't understand the concept of being restrained anywhere besides a crate or, when outdoors, on a leash. She's a strong dog and I'm a very petite woman (I only weigh 90 pounds) so having her yelping and pulling on me just stressed both of us out a lot. The crate seemed like a better option because it's something she's essentially used to.

I've been playing with her when she comes out of her crate for potty/outside breaks.

[GentleLake]

Just like anything else, the tethering will take some training and adjustment time. Try some short periods when you can work with her and keep it relaxed but positive.

 

OK, so you work from home. Many dogs are crated all day while their owners are at work, at least until they become reliable in the house. Take her out when you take breaks and lunch times. In the evening when you can supervise her more, she should be able to have more freedom.

 

None of this is going to be perfect when you start. Remember to be patient, both with her and with yourself. Take baby steps. When you get frustrated, take a step back and practice taking a few deep breaths to regroup. . . . and practice patience. That should be your mantra. Breathe and be patient.

 

Think about this for a minute from your dog's point of view. She's been frustrated and confused for a couple months now, as you have been. Now things are changing again. You understand why, but she doesn't. She hadn't even figured out the old rules and now they're changing again. It's good that they're changing. She needs more routine and consistency in her life, but still they've changed and she doesn't understand why and she hasn't figured out what you want from her now.

 

This will take as long as it takes. It may just be a few weeks, but it may be longer. Put yourself in the mindset that however long it takes is OK. Trust me; it will pay off. But you've got to be consistent and patient w/ the process. It's not like a light switch that you can just flip on. It'sd a process that takes tme to unfold.

 

Breathe and be patient . . .

[gcv-border]

I've been playing with her when she comes out of her crate for potty/outside breaks.

Eventually she WILL go, but you just have to be patient. [When I was a teenager, we had a dachshund get hit by a car. He was immediately rushed to the vet's office where he stayed for about 2 days and did NOT pee or poop. The vet suggested the dog would be more comfortable at home. Once home, he let go an amazing amount of 'retained material'. I don't know how he kept it all inside.]

 

If you go back through the previous replies, there has been advice about not playing with your pup when she goes outside until after she does her business. Bring her to her spot to eliminate and let her concentrate on her business. Please review the advice given above as others have explained it better.

 

Jovi

 

Jovi

[maggiesmommy]

You're right, Jovi. I shouldn't be playing with her during her breaks. I just don't want her to go crazy from a lack of exercise, so I'm trying to balance the fact that she's under-exercised and under-stimulated with the fact that she shouldn't be having any positive reinforcement until she's pottied.

GentleLake, thank you for all the encouragement. It's so good to hear from you guys because so often when I've asked other dog owners, they've just said, "Well, I don't know!" or they've told me to abandon her. I'm glad to see so many people here who really care and are helpful in finding solutions.

[GentleLake]

. I just don't want her to go crazy from a lack of exercise, so I'm trying to balance the fact that she's under-exercised and under-stimulated with the fact that she shouldn't be having any positive reinforcement until she's pottied.

 

 

 

Keep in mind, though, that this isn't going to be the norm for the rest of her life. This will only be for a few weeks. I'm sure she'll catch on quickly when she understands the rules and the new routine.

 

Also remember, when she does go outside like she's supposed to, she doesn't have to go right back intot the crate when she comes in. Going potty outside earns her some freedom in the house. I don't remember how old she is, but old enough that she shouldn't be feeling the need to go right away again. Just keep an eye on her so that she doesn't backslide, but she should be good for at least half an hour, close to you, when she comes in.

 

I don't know what kind of work you do at home, but if tethering her to you isn't feasible, at least until she gets use to the idea, is there something you could tether her to that's close to you so she can still be near you and near enough that you can keep any eye on her?

 

Crating and supervision may be frustrating, but remeber it's short term and that she'll be able to have more freedom when she's earned it. It'll help you to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[gcv-border]

If you go back through the previous replies, there has been advice about not playing with your pup when she goes outside until after she does her business. Bring her to her spot to eliminate and let her concentrate on her business. Please review the advice given above as others have explained it better.

 

Jovi

maggiesmommy-

I just want to add that my BC will not go potty if he thinks there is any chance that I will play with him. When we go outside, he will lie down and stare at me waiting for a ball, a Frisbee, a chance to weave or do agility jumps, etc. And he will hold it while we 'play'. Once I tell him 'enough' [the command for 'we are done'], he will trot off to the bushes to do his business. When I don't have time to play with him, I have to give him his potty command, 'hurry up' to make sure that he will pee or else he won't as he is waiting for something to happen.

 

The breeder of my dog did warn me from the outset that it is not unusual for BCs to not potty if there is any chance at all that they think they will play. And if they do play hard, they will often forget to potty in their excitement. She told me not to let him play until he did his business.

 

Jovi