What should I do???

[Kian's Mom]

Debbie Meier,

 

Could you or anyone tell me where online I can look for trial dates and location. I would really like to go watch and talk to a few people. The 2 hrs isn't bad but would like to keep it to that or shorter. LOL.

Thanks

[olivehill]

Upcoming trials can be found on the USBCHA website.

 

Sheep Here.

 

Cattle Here.

[waffles]

If you go to an open level USBCHA trial...trust me, it is worth the 2 or more hour drive if you have never been to one. If your jaw isn't on the ground the whole time and your mind isn't blown...then, well I don't know what to say! It'll hopefully change your mind about breeding your dog just because she is cute/nice or has run through some tunnels at agility for ribbons. Nothing beats seeing top notch border collies work.

[Debbie Meier]

It's not uncommon to travel 6-10 hours for clinics or to a special trainer that you like and 6 on up to a trial. If you have a real big trial that draws some of the top national handlers within 6 hours of you consider yourself really really lucky.

 

I'm going to going 4.5 hours this weekend just to go get in some practice on different sheep with friends, stopping in at two different places.

 

The time spent travelling is well worth it, one day or weekend a few times a year of quality instruction will take you further then going every week to someone who just thinks that herding is chasing super dog broke sheep around them while they walk backwards through obstacles yelling lie down or pretending that their dogs know what the flank commands are.

[Beach BCs]

Trust me, it's well worth the drive.

[Kian's Mom]

Ok help me out. Looked on the USBCHA web. I get the O is for open and the N is for nursery. Is the numbers in those columns the number of dogs in that class?

[toney]

It's the number of open classes and nursery classes offered per trial. The number of dogs entered aren't listed except maybe when running order are posted on the trial website, dogtrialentry.com or sheepdog-l.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Fellow Listers

 

Off topic but I couldn't help but be impressed by the helpful courtesy shown in these replies.

 

Donald McCaig

[SS Cressa]

Maybe I am confused or not reading optigen right?! It says a pup can "go normal" but still pass on the faulty gene. Not trying to start anything. Is that talking about CERF and not actually DNA testing?

 

SS Cressa, this is not correct. There are three possible DNA test results -- Normal, Carrier and Affected. A Normal bred to a Normal will not produce anything but Normals, and if those pups are bred to mates who tested Normal (or are the offspring of a sire and dam who tested Normal), they too can only produce Normals. There is no need to test in subsequent generations, so long as your recordkeeping is accurate. If you're thinking there's a theoretical possibility of a new, independent mutation of the CEA gene, that theoretical possibility is so remote that it would be totally irrational to test again for it. As a practical matter, the only way you are going to get a Carrier or Affected offspring from a breeding of two dogs cleared by parentage, no matter how far down the generations you go, is if one of the parent dogs was not in fact the dog who did the breeding (for example, if the bitch was bred by a dog who jumped the fence, or if the breeder deliberately misrepresented who the parent was).

Of course, if the breeder was talking about the sire having been found clear by an Ophthalmological (CERF) exam rather than a DNA test, that's a whole nother matter, as I'm sure you and Kian's Mom both know.

[gcv-border]

Maybe I am confused or not reading optigen right?! It says a pup can "go normal" but still pass on the faulty gene. Not trying to start anything. Is that talking about CERF and not actually DNA testing?

 

Do you remember where you read this - about '"go normal"? Maybe if you could post it here, someone could clear up the confusion.

 

Jovi

[Eileen Stein]

Maybe I am confused or not reading optigen right?! It says a pup can "go normal" but still pass on the faulty gene. Not trying to start anything. Is that talking about CERF and not actually DNA testing?

 

 

Yes, basically "go normal" is talking about the CERF exam. It refers to a dog who is Affected with CEA (and therefore has two copies of the CEA gene), but whose case is so mild that it cannot be detected in adulthood by a veterinary ophthalmologist doing an eye exam. The vet could have seen it in early puppyhood (before 12 weeks, say), but can't see it later after it has "gone normal." So, because he can't see it, he puts in his report that the eyes are normal. "Go normal" dogs are relatively uncommon, but not really rare.

 

"Go normal" is a very bad term, but it has stuck and so we're stuck with it now. It's a bad term because the dog doesn't BECOME normal -- it still has the CEA genes and can still pass on the disease to its offspring. It's just that it has reached a stage where its eyes LOOK normal to the examining vet, because the signs of the disease have been obscured as the eye develops.

 

So if you're relying on the DNA test, "go normal" doesn't come into the picture at all. If the dog's DNA tests as "Normal," it can never transmit a CEA gene to its offspring, because it doesn't have one to transmit.

[Kian's Mom]

ss Cressa,

This is what Optigen sent me back when I asked about a CEA test. If they had ever had any wrong results.

 

 

We have never had a "wrong" test for CEA however there are a few factors that can cause confusion when discussing CEA and also sources of error that are not due to the test being "wrong". You mention that your dog's sire's eyes were "tested" as Normal. We have experienced many cases of confusion due to the use of the term "testing" as sometimes referring to an eye exam performed by a veterinary ophthalmologist, not a DNA test result. If this is the case then a dog could appear Normal to the ophthalmolgist and still be carrying the CEA mutation.

If there truly are two parents that have been tested by Optigen as Normal/Clear for CEA, then other sources of "error" (or "mismatch") could be due to one of the following:

• Wrong parent is identified (usually the sire) when relying on "Normal by Parentage"
• Error in labeling/handling the sample either prior to submission or after receipt in the laboratory.

If you can provide copies of the parent's/grandparents' OptiGen tests showing that they are Normal/Clear of CEA then we will be happy to review them to confirm their accuracy and possibly follow up with the owners of the original dogs involved.Your experience sounds similar to what we often hear from our clients who are expecting a normal by parentage outcome. I think that often the mistake is quite an honest one--breeders incorrectly remember which dogs have been tested for which diseases and sometimes honestly think that they're relaying the correct information. If you should come across the paperwork that indicates that your dog really should be Normal by Parentage for CEA, please don't hesitate to inform us of that. It is something that we would want to know about and follow up on.

[SS Cressa]

Do you remember where you read this - about '"go normal"? Maybe if you could post it here, someone could clear up the confusion.

 

Jovi

It is on optigen website about testing for CEA.

 

And thanks to the people who clarified what they meant.