How do you feel about banning a breed?

[rlwzgd]

Well, I don't think it is about breed. Was that dog a dog that had resource or guarding issues?

The problem is, so many little signs a dog gives are missed. And by no means am I questioning your friends horrible story.

 

^ This - it's an 1/8" in the corner of the mouth, or lack of breath that signals tensions are boiling over... People think a growling dog is aggressive dog - a growling dog is trying to prevent a fight, not start one... Dogs often get scolded for growling - they are then left without a signal to say that they are uncomfortable and want the current conditions to change... So what happens? They seem to bite without warning, when, in effect, they'd been giving warning for years and it was ignored or worse, reprimanded.

 

I'm not doubting your story, but I'm questioning the circumstances. And, I'm thinking that if you replaced "pit bull" with another breed, you wouldn't feel as strongly about the dog just "snapping" because it's naturally aggressive (i.e., your perception of a breed without scientific basis is clouding the lens through which you are viewing the world).

 

This is exactly what we are talking about with the provoked discussion. Your idea of provoked is different from mine. You reached over and tried to pet a strange dog that never met you before. To me that is provoking.

 

^ This is what got my nose so artfully rearranged by the Polish Mountain Dog... I loomed over the dog, I petted it on the top of the head. The owner had scolded it so many times for growling it didn't growl. But I missed the mouth, I missed the lack of breath. I was a child - who's fault? I'd say mine, mostly... Partly the owner for training it not to growl... I knew dogs well by then and I knew what to look for and what to do - I forgot my senses because it was a neighborhood dog that had seen me a million times... I was never mad at the dog - I'm not terribly found of gigantic fluffy white things and go out of my way to avoid them, but it wasn't the dog's fault by any means... I provoked it, my actions were lost in translation when viewed from the dogs POV.

[maggiesmommy]

^ This - it's an 1/8" in the corner of the mouth, or lack of breath that signals tensions are boiling over... People think a growling dog is aggressive dog - a growling dog is trying to prevent a fight, not start one... Dogs often get scolded for growling - they are then left without a signal to say that they are uncomfortable and want the current conditions to change... So what happens? They seem to bite without warning, when, in effect, they'd been giving warning for years and it was ignored or worse, reprimanded.

 

I SO get this. I had a woman chew me out at the dog park because Maggie growled at her dog, who was relentlessly attempting to mount her. She said Maggie was aggressive and shouldn't be in the dog park. I told her that her dog was the only one showing any sign of aggression; Maggie was politely letting him know that she wasn't okay with being mounted. She seemed upset that I wouldn't scold Maggie for growling, but I'm glad she did. I'd prefer that she growl and tell the other dog, "Hey, quit that!" than to silently tolerate it and then tear into him.

 

I'm not doubting your story, but I'm questioning the circumstances. And, I'm thinking that if you replaced "pit bull" with another breed, you wouldn't feel as strongly about the dog just "snapping" because it's naturally aggressive (i.e., your perception of a breed without scientific basis is clouding the lens through which you are viewing the world).

 

Predatory drift isn't quite the same thing as "normal" aggression, and it seems like a lot of these attacks from pits are mistaken for aggression when they're actually just the dog "snapping" and mistaking a child (or other dog) for prey. It does seem that pits are more prone to it, and that's often what causes these sudden attacks with no apparent warning. It could be that the tendency toward predatory drift was bred into them so they'd fight longer in the ring, when dogs have a natural instinct to stop as soon as the other dog shows signs of submission. Dogs warn other dogs before attacking, but they don't warn rabbits. And for a dog experiencing predatory drift, that child, or other dog, is prey and not peer.

 

There's definitely a chance that breed bias affects my perception of what happened, but the owner was very pro-pit up to that point and knew/believed that he had a "good dog" who would never do something like that. I don't think that his opinion would have turned a full 180 and that he would have had his beloved pet euthanized if he could have found any excuse that would have made the dog's behavior excusable in any way. He loved that dog. It's because of the owner's opinion more than my own conclusions that I feel the way I do.

[GentleLake]

_{The breed that I won't take are Rotties. I am afraid of those dogs . Can't help it. I can't read their eyes.}

 

I know, of course, that Rotties have a reputation, but I've never met one that has't been a big baby. I've got a client now who has three and a Golden. All are the biggest mushes ever.

[GentleLake]

 

The statistics aren't from the victim's account of the incident. They're from when the dogs are seized and then euthanized by Animal Control, which is policy in almost all jurisdictions.

 

The sad thing is that not all vets (whom someone else suggested as people who can ID breeds) and ACOs are at all proficient in identifying dog breeds.

 

The ACO in my town had no clue that my red, largish boned BC was. He thought all BCs were black & white. Didn't even know about tris.

 

And another dog was sent to a rescue from a shelter who identified his as a female Aussie mix. The ACO there didn't know what he was.

 

And I was sent to evaluate a dog for a rescue once that turned out to be a huge bear of a Newfie-type mix. I asked where the owner had gotten the idea it was a BC. The vet told him!

 

These are all people who are presumed to know what kinds of dogs are what, but IME, many of them really don't have much of a clue.

[GentleLake]

Pit bulls were not bred for aggression, they were bred for aggression to other animals, and that's unfortunate because predatory drift does happen as a result

 

Predatory drift isn't about aggression. It's about prey drive.

[Shetlander]

I know, of course, that Rotties have a reputation, but I've never met one that has't been a big baby. I've got a client now who has three and a Golden. All are the biggest mushes ever.

I've seen such variation in temperament in the breed from unbelievably wonderful and one sweetheart who tolerated really rotten treatment from its idiot owner to unstable and dangerous dogs, including one who seemed understandably insane from its life spent tied to a tree. Rotts have the misfortune of drawing some of the same jerky owners that pits do. I avoid Rotts as a rule because like Tommy Coyote, I can't read them either. A barking bouncing aggressive Rott looks pretty much the same to me as a barking bouncing friendly Rott. So I avoid them at all costs until I have a better idea of what they are like.

 

The same goes for Pits who I know can be the sweetest dogs, at least with people. However there are too many dog aggressive ones, they can do so much damage and there are too many stupid owners. A while back while walking with a friend and our Border Collies, two pit mixes came running up to our dogs, ignoring our commands to back off, poked at our dogs who do not like to be poked and when my friend's 11 year old bitch snarked at the younger pit to back off, it attacked her and only stopped when my friend kicked it in the ribs. The damage to my friend's dog was very minimal, a little blood with no deep punctures but the owner was frighteningly clueless. He sees two women yelling at his off leash dogs who left him in the dust to get to us, the dogs getting in a fight, us calling to him to get his dogs and he never broke into a slow jog, just kept ambling along while we are dealing with the mess he set in motion.

 

When we finally crossed paths, he insisted the dog who attacked my friend's BC was "just a puppy who loves to play with other animals." Ignoring the fact that he was facing two by then distraught women who had just informed him his puppy bit one of our dogs. I told him, considering the breed of dog he had, he needed to be extra careful to have her under control and not let her run loose. he immediately said, "What breed of dog? What breed? She's a mix! What are you saying?" I told him he knew perfectly well that people would look at her and call her a pit or pit mix, because that is what she had in her. That not every dog wants to play with her and she doesn't take being told back off well. That his puppy was going to end up labeled dangerous or even put to sleep if he didn't get control of her. By this point I was channeling his mother (or what his mother should have taught him) and actually used the phrase, "It's going to end in heartache."

 

He eventually became contrite and said he never meant for his dog to attack ours. Of course he didn't, I told him, but he needed to change how he was handling his dog in public. I have about zero confidence he made any real changes or that he even understands what he needs to do differently. And it worries me to think what that 6 month old puppy is going to be like when she is a year or two and gets into fights with dogs who are minding their own business, walking on leash with their owners.

 

It is hard to legislate common sense.

[GentleLake]

 

 

I mentioned (and again, this is anecdote, but it's an example that I know personally) that one of my best friends' daughters was attacked by a pit bull with no provocation when she was four. She was playing with her toys on the floor while her dad and the dog's owner watched football, and, by the account of the dog owner and her father, the dog very suddenly attacked without any warning or provocation.

 

 

 

How can you be absolutely certain that this is an example of predatory drift and that there was no provocation? (And, yes, I do know that I was the one who initially suf\ggested to you that it may have been predatory drift.) Both the dog's owner and the child's father were distracted watching football (and I'm all sure know guys who are oblivious to anything else going on in their environments when they're watching football!) There could well have been something that the child did to provoke the dog.

 

Since you're fond of anecdotes, here's another one for you. I once fostered a very lovely BC mix (my guess is BC/Golden Retriever) who was relinquished for biting the family's toddler in the face. It wasn't a bad bite, more a nip, but left welts on the child's face. The FOs insisted that the child had done nothing to provoke the bite.

 

Investigating the history further, it turns out that the child had a habit of hugging the dog around the neck when it was standing facing the girl. The dog had been giving the child warnings for some time. First just a lip lift, then a little growl, then a louder growl and finally the dog nipped her.

 

When I got the dog I noticed his gait was off and we had his hips X-rayed. As it turns out, this dog had some of the most severe hip dysplasia that even the orthopedic vets had ever seen. When the child leaned into him with her big hugs, she was putting backward pressure on his hips that was most likely agonizing. He spent weeks trying to warn the little girl, but she (understandably) and the parents (not so understandably) were clueless about the repeated and escalated warnings. Even the final bite was extrememly controlled. But if the parents hadn't heeded that communication, I'm sure he would have ended up biting harder and perhaps causing more damage. And it would have been -- at least according to the parents -- unprovoked and without warning. (The dog had FHO surgery on both hips and is the nicest dog you'd ever want to know -- but he did have to go to a home without children for liability reason, even though he adores kids.)

 

 

 

Predatory drift seems to be a common trigger for attacks on children. I was attacked once as a child and almost-attacked a second time. In neither case had I done anything wrong. The first time, I was playing outside my mom's house (urban area) when a stray Doberman (whose owner we never identified) bolted around the corner, chased me, and after backing me against a fence, ripped into my butt. The second time, I was playing outside my dad's house (rural area) when a stray mutt (a chow or spitz mix) wandered over. I tried to pet him (because I was a dumb kid) and he poised to attack. My dad's working BC intervened before he attacked me and nearly killed the dog, but if she hadn't been there, I would have likely been dead. In neither case do I think either of the attacks could have been considered "provoked." Give kids and parents a little more credit. Dogs do sometimes attack children who are not bothering them.

 

 

There's absolutely nothing in either of these examples to suggest that the dogs attacked as a result of predatory drift.

 

Example 1: The dog chased you. Then you must have been running from the dog, quite possibly screaming in fear as you ran? That's a classic incitement for a dog to give chase and attack, but it's not predatory drift. (Please look up and reread the info on predatory drift to see the difference between predatory drift and other kinds of predatory instincts. While similar, they're not identical.) I do elementary school programs that teach children that when they feel threatened by a dog, they should never run away, but should "stand like a tree", with arms across their chests, making no sounds and making no eye contact. This is the way you deal with a potentially threatening dog, not running and screaming. Unfortunately, too few kids know this.

 

There's a good chance that you unwittingly provoked the dog in your second example, as well. I'm willing to bet you looked the dog straight in the eye, which dogs perceive as threatening and aggressive. And you reached out toward the dog, maybe even over it's head to pet the nice doggy's head. Another mistake, as both actions are often perceived by dogs as threatening.

 

You see, the problem with all these "unprovoked" attacks that people talk about, is that they're so clueless about dogs to even recognize the provocations that are being given to the dogs.

 

As a society, we need a whole lot more education about canine behavior and body language. It's really remarkable that there aren't a lot more dog bites than there are.

[maggiesmommy]

How can you be absolutely certain that this is an example of predatory drift and that there was no provocation? (And, yes, I do know that I was the one who initially suf\ggested to you that it may have been predatory drift.) Both the dog's owner and the child's father were distracted watching football (and I'm all sure know guys who are oblivious to anything else going on in their environments when they're watching football!) There could well have been something that the child did to provoke the dog.

 

I'm not absolutely certain. It's my guess. And yes, something else may have provoked him.

 

Since you're fond of anecdotes, here's another one for you. I once fostered a very lovely BC mix (my guess is BC/Golden Retriever) who was relinquished for biting the family's toddler in the face. It wasn't a bad bite, more a nip, but left welts on the child's face. The FOs insisted that the child had done nothing to provoke the bite.

 

Investigating the history further, it turns out that the child had a habit of hugging the dog around the neck when it was standing facing the girl. The dog had been giving the child warnings for some time. First just a lip lift, then a little growl, then a louder growl and finally the dog nipped her.

 

When I got the dog I noticed his gait was off and we had his hips X-rayed. As it turns out, this dog had some of the most severe hip dysplasia that even the orthopedic vets had ever seen. When the child leaned into him with her big hugs, she was putting backward pressure on his hips that was most likely agonizing. He spent weeks trying to warn the little girl, but she (understandably) and the parents (not so understandably) were clueless about the repeated and escalated warnings. Even the final bite was extrememly controlled. But if the parents hadn't heeded that communication, I'm sure he would have ended up biting harder and perhaps causing more damage. And it would have been -- at least according to the parents -- unprovoked and without warning. (The dog had FHO surgery on both hips and is the nicest dog you'd ever want to know -- but he did have to go to a home without children for liability reason, even though he adores kids.)

 

I'm certain that kind of thing happens all the time.

 

There's absolutely nothing in either of these examples to suggest that the dogs attacked as a result of predatory drift.

 

Example 1: The dog chased you. Then you must have been running from the dog, quite possibly screaming in fear as you ran? That's a classic incitement for a dog to give chase and attack, but it's not predatory drift. (Please look up and reread the info on predatory drift to see the difference between predatory drift and other kinds of predatory instincts. While similar, they're not identical.) I do elementary school programs that teach children that when they feel threatened by a dog, they should never run away, but should "stand like a tree", with arms across their chests, making no sounds and making no eye contact. This is the way you deal with a potentially threatening dog, not running and screaming. Unfortunately, too few kids know this.

 

From what I remember (I was three, and it was my first memory, and there was no adult that witnessed the attack), I looked up and saw that he was running toward me at full speed. I tried to run but didn't get far. I don't remember screaming until he bit me It could have been another form of predatory behavior. He probably just flat-out saw me as prey, no drifting required. He actually ate the piece of my butt he bit off (yeah, gross/scary) which makes me think it was predatory. And, yes, again, I'll be the first to admit that letting a 3-year-old play alone outside was a bad idea on my mom's part.

 

There's a good chance that you unwittingly provoked the dog in your second example, as well. I'm willing to bet you looked the dog straight in the eye, which dogs perceive as threatening and aggressive. And you reached out toward the dog, maybe even over it's head to pet the nice doggy's head. Another mistake, as both actions are often perceived by dogs as threatening.

 

Yes, I can definitely see how I provoked the dog in that case. He had no way of knowing that the strange kid who wanted to hug him meant him no harm, and everything about my body language came across as aggressive. I can understand that.

 

You see, the problem with all these "unprovoked" attacks that people talk about, is that they're so clueless about dogs to even recognize the provocations that are being given to the dogs.

 

I guess that's the core problem here. When I'm referring to unprovoked attacks, I'm referring to an attack that wasn't brought on by deliberate taunting or abuse. Although I know this isn't "unprovoked" from the dog's perspective, it's something to take into account. Dogs who attack with no provocation from the human's perspective are just as dangerous as dogs who attack with no provocation, period. We have to take into account that a breed that is easily provoked is as dangerous as a dog who attacks "unprovoked."

 

As a society, we need a whole lot more education about canine behavior and body language. It's really remarkable that there aren't a lot more dog bites than there are.

 

Absolutely. I think it's crazy that we've got literally billions of domesticated wolves living in human homes throughout the world, but it's extremely rare for them to decide to eat people... Especially when you consider that few owners, and no children, "speak" Dog.

[GentleLake]

 

 

I can see how the attacks could be considered provoked from the dog's POV.

 

It's very simple, then . . . (sorry to shout, but . . .) THE DOG WAS PROVOKED!

 

No, ifs, ands, buts or ors. This is what you're not getting.

 

Here's another example . . . Let's say I come up to and start pestering and teasing you. I'm not aggressive, I'm not angry with you, I'm just having a little fun. But you don't like it. You're trying to do something else at the moment. Maybe you just want to rest, or maybe you don't enjoy being teased. Maybe you ask me to stop and maybe you don't. Either way, you get to the point where you've had your fill of it and you lash out.

 

Were you provoked?

 

From my perspective, no. I was just trying to engage you. I was trying to have fun.

 

But the truth of the matter is that yes, you were provoked! I was annoying to you and it caused you to lash out. You may or may not have given me any warnings that this was about to happen, but if you did warn me, I ignored you. You were provoked.

 

Just because we humans don't pay attention to the ways that we (or our kids!) annoy or threaten our dogs, there are many, many ways that family dogs get provoked each and every day.

[GentleLake]

It does seem that pits are more prone to it, and that's often what causes these sudden attacks with no apparent warning. It could be that the tendency toward predatory drift was bred into them so they'd fight longer in the ring, when dogs have a natural instinct to stop as soon as the other dog shows signs of submission.

 

 

 

O.M.G.! You have no clue what predatory drift really is.

 

This is a prefect example af a little knowledge being a dangerous thing . . . .

[mtnfrank]

Banning breeds won't stop the problem you posted; it will only alter the breeds involved.

 

How much of the pit bull problem is due to the breed itself as opposed to this particular breed being very popular at the moment resulting in being overbreeding and poor breeding? When a breed is popular, the total number of dogs from the breed can start to dominate the dog population additionally when a breed is popular unqualified people are breeding this dog producing poor genetic examples of the breed. It is the precentage of the dog population, the poor genetic examples, and the attitude of those who own this status symbol that are the core problems.

 

Let's say pit bull bans succeed and no more pit bulls are bred. What happens if another breed becomes very popular, like Kangals? Has the pit bull ban really addressed the problem or just symptoms of the problem?

 

Unfortunately the breed is what people make of it, if people breed for aggressivity (or just to make money) then the breed becomes tainted.

 

I think pits now are a problem due to their breeding which is amplified 10x by the status seeking tough guys that want to own one. A ban prevents easy fullfillment of that social posturing. And it doesn't mean that the people that wanted a pitbull will automatically substitute for another breed.

 

In my view, it works a bit like putting railings where people make a habit of jumping off bridges. Sure doesn't fix the underlying problem but certainly help prevents the spur of the moment jumping decision. End results less suicide, so one can argue a cost effective way of dealing with it. (not arguing it is the best way or even the moral way of doing it). Same for a dog, if a ban makes it more difficult for someone that should not be owning a dog to get one on impulse than there is some positive.

 

Sidenote, it is good that this discussion remains polite. One just has to read comments below news story about pitbull attacks or breed bans in other media to see how quickly emotions take over the debate.

[mtnfrank]

"I have been on these boards for years. Again and again, issues with Border Collies come up. Aggression, resource guarding, suspicious behavior around kids and so on. I have heard more than one person say "Border Collies are aggressive" (ignorant folks but they heard it somewhere!). "

 

I would argue that you would see the same problem on any breed board. Obviously people tend to ask questions when they have a problem to solve rather than when everything is rosy.

 

Not to say that BC are not more susceptible to these behaviours than other breeds but, in my limited experience, BC owners tend to be passionate about dog training and that certainly makes a difference vs owners that are passionate about having 'a tough dog'.

 

If we go with a car analogy, license is required to drive a regular car. More restrictive license for people that your (learners) or on probation (eg drunk driving). Another class of license to drive big trucks or machinery and some things are simply not allowed (eg for track or off road use only).

 

There are bans and limits on a lot of things to allow us uncivilized humans to live (quasi) peacifully in a community. Banning certain dog breeds doesn't affect one's 'fundamental freedom'. It becomes a compromise for public safety.

 

Now... is it a compromise that result in tangible results and is the best and/or most cost effective way to do it? I would think it is reasonable but definitively better data is required.

[Pipedream Farm]

Banning pit bulls now only affects the breed/type that may be the current fad. When the fad shifts to a different breed/type new bans will be required. The bans only address the symptom of the problem not the actually problem (people's attitudes and irresponsibility).

 

Mark Billadeau

[Journey]

No. I'm not in favor of banning anything. But people who own potentially dangerous dogs need to be responsible for them.

Well this comment would ban every breed out there. Any dog has the potential to be dangerous.

[MrSnappy]

Predatory drift isn't about aggression. It's about prey drive.

 

Well, yes and no ... there are dogs who are "finishers" (example terriers. Ergo pit bull TERRIERS) who, when engaged/amped, will finish the job. My border collie will chase rabbits, my terriers will chase them and kill them. I think the predation is not simply separated from aggression by giving it another name, because it's part of a bigger parcel. In some breeds we have greatly reduced most/all aspects of aggression, in others we have amplified it through artificial selection. So I don't agree they are entirely separate and I think that dogs who are made to engage in confrontation of some kind, who are easily amped and who have impulse control issues are often more likely to engage in some form of predatory aggression. Children are the catalysts for all kinds of aggression in all kinds of dogs, predatory and fearful included.

 

I think that all terriers are more easily enticed into biting than lots of other groups of dogs (and I am a fan of terriers!) and I include pit bulls in that category. That does not mean that I consider pit bulls to be unusually aggressive dogs, I just generally classify them in the same way I do my JRT mixes ... just a heck of a lot bigger. And IME, lots of terrier type dogs who get amped up like to try and finish what was started. A lot of the terrier type dogs I deal with, who have very terrier qualities, are also prone to dog aggression to some degree and don't have a lot of impulse control. I tend to think all of these things go hand in hand.

 

RDM

[geonni banner]

[mum24dog]

Making something illegal typically pushes the problem somewhere else. Ban certain drugs and people find other drugs to use. Replace drugs with dogs.

 

This is exactly what we've seen here in the UK.

 

Pitbulls were banned 18 years ago and those losers who wanted to look hard turned to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier - not a PB, a recognised breed bred for many, many years to be amiable family dogs.

 

What we have now is rescues full of SBTs and their crosses and a formerly popular breed demonised by the ignorant.

[Shetlander]

 

Shetland Sheepdogs - high reactivity, fear-bites not uncommon.

Not to go off topic, but what? I know I only have a small number to go on in the scheme of things, but every Sheltie I have known or seen has been exceptionally gentle. It is sort of their MO, even the fearful or high strung one's. In the wrong hands, I am sure they could be nippy messes and yes, any dog can bite and I imagine even a Sheltie could deliver a nasty bite but I can't imagine putting them on the same level as some other breeds like pits.

[GentleLake]

Well, yes and no ... there are dogs who are "finishers" (example terriers. Ergo pit bull TERRIERS) who, when engaged/amped, will finish the job. My border collie will chase rabbits, my terriers will chase them and kill them. I think the predation is not simply separated from aggression by giving it another name, because it's part of a bigger parcel. In some breeds we have greatly reduced most/all aspects of aggression, in others we have amplified it through artificial selection. So I don't agree they are entirely separate and I think that dogs who are made to engage in confrontation of some kind, who are easily amped and who have impulse control issues are often more likely to engage in some form of predatory aggression. Children are the catalysts for all kinds of aggression in all kinds of dogs, predatory and fearful included.

 

Related, perhaps, but not considered the same thing. For example, a dog that's a "finisher" (I also have one), may never "drift" into predation during play. The difference is that predatory drift begins as something other than predation in the first place. It's play during which something snaps and turns into predation, not something that begins as predation, which is what you describe above.

 

Here's an article that does a good job, imo, explaining the differences between aggression, predation and predatory drift. They're not considered to be the same thing.

 

ETA: The link! http://www.bandamastiffs.ca/PredatoryDrift.html

[katenjim]

Not to go off topic, but what? I know I only have a small number to go on in the scheme of things, but every Sheltie I have known or seen has been exceptionally gentle. It is sort of their MO, even the fearful or high strung one's. In the wrong hands, I am sure they could be nippy messes and yes, any dog can bite and I imagine even a Sheltie could deliver a nasty bite but I can't imagine putting them on the same level as some other breeds like pits.

Yes, even sweet pretty little shelties can bite. A friend of mine been doing sheltie rescue for 20 years has run into some.

Recently a sheltie bit a child requiring intensive surgery to the face.

No, they don't have the massive bite and mouth of other breeds, but they still can do damage.

bites happen with any breed.

[Shetlander]

Yes, I am aware bites happen with any breed. I said as much in my post. I just never heard of Shelties as a breed being known as biters. I see much more of an issue with Border Collies and Lhasas (the other two breeds I have spent a lot of time with) than the average Sheltie.

[Pipedream Farm]

I suspect "average" breed behavior has a regional component based upon the popular lines within a given region.

 

Mark Billadeau

[mtnfrank]

Pitbulls were banned 18 years ago and those losers who wanted to look hard turned to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier - not a PB, a recognised breed bred for many, many years to be amiable family dogs.

 

What we have now is rescues full of SBTs and their crosses and a formerly popular breed demonised by the ignorant.

 

Staffies are pitbulls, just not 'American Pitbull Terrier'. And people in the UK call their american pitbulls terriers Staffies to get around the BSL.... so staffies in rescue are pitbulls (a generic term) and also possibly American Pitbull Terrier (a specific breed).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

[Maralynn]

 

I guess that's the core problem here. When I'm referring to unprovoked attacks, I'm referring to an attack that wasn't brought on by deliberate taunting or abuse. Although I know this isn't "unprovoked" from the dog's perspective, it's something to take into account. Dogs who attack with no provocation from the human's perspective are just as dangerous as dogs who attack with no provocation, period. We have to take into account that a breed that is easily provoked is as dangerous as a dog who attacks "unprovoked."

 

This statement bothers me.

 

It is a human issue. Learn to understand what your dog is telling you and you won't have the problem. We chose to bring the dog into our home. They didn't have a say in the matter. Then we blame them when we don't take the time to understand them?

 

They're dangerous because of clueless people, not through any fault of their own

[GentleLake]

This statement bothers me.

 

It is a human issue. Learn to understand what your dog is telling you and you won't have the problem. We chose to bring the dog into our home. They didn't have a say in the matter. Then we blame them when we don't take the time to understand them?

 

They're dangerous because of clueless people, not through any fault of their own

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this! Especially the part about blaming them when we don't take the time to understand them, and, I would add, when we expect way too much from them.

 

Why is it that we expect dogs to put up with all our cluelessness, and then place the blame on them when things go wrong?

 

The height of human hubris.