Winter time herding

[cmtst2]

In November Loki herded a skunk into the back porch..he didn't know that the slapping was a warning and it didn't turn out well for any of us.

 

Now we have a lot of deer in the back and he is just going crazy. The deer have a path they follow down the side of the house and into the woods. Loki forgets all commands and the frenzy starts. So far it's all good fun for him but I worry that the big buck will challenge him at some point. Should I be concerned?

[Sue R]

This is not "herding" at all. And, yes, I do think this is something you need to put a stop to right now. It's not "good fun" (although he thinks it is) and it's not just a matter of whether or not a buck with challenge him (does with fawns can be a hazard to a dog, too, as well as the inherent dangers in chasing deer).

 

Is your dog in a fenced yard and the deer are going around the fence? Or is your dog loose and chasing the deer? Either way, you need to get a handle on this. One thing you might do is if the incidents tend to occur at certain times of day (dawn and dusk, for instance), is to keep your dog inside during those times when the deer are most likely to be passing by. That is management and if you are not able to train something or control something, management is one way to avoid an issue.

 

How much have you worked with Loki in terms of getting him to focus attention on you when there are distractions around? There have been some very good topics here about dogs that focus on vehicles and chase them, and many of the same principles that the advice on those topics have offered would apply equally well to this situation.

 

A start to dealing with this might be to not allow your dog out without supervision (you don't want him to have the chance to do this on his own); using a leash or long line (be careful with that as a dog can get up a good bit of speed with a long line and give you a nasty jerk - use gloves and be prepared) so that you have a level of physical control; teach him to focus on you (the Miss Scarlet topic has some good advice about this sort of thing, with reference to car-chasing); teach him a "leave-it" command that you can use eventually when the deer appear.

 

This is probably something that is going to take some time and effort since it seems to be something he's had a chance to develop as a habit (they make a habit out of something with just a few repetitions), and you (and your family) will have to make a concerted and consistent effort to work with him. Deer are awfully enticing and invoke an intense predatory response from many dogs.

 

I am sure others will offer good and specific advice for you. Good luck with this!

[cmtst2]

He is in a fence which normally he stays in and it happens at night when I let him out and I can't see the deer. But yes, the deer come into the yard and right up to the fence to eat various plants and trees I have in the yard.

 

There are lots of different animals out there and this is the only type he reacts to. He stops and lays down when told with birds that get stuck in the porch, ground hogs, loose dogs etc. and he's not trying to hurt them.

 

He's just a pet, I have never trained him in herding and thought this was his natural response coming out. The deer have been there all along and this is the first season he has acted like this. Loki seems to be trying to move them to the end of the yard and away from the fence..not even back into the woods just away from the house.

 

I will have to walk him at night and I will read up on focus but he already does well normally and I don't know how I can recreated these circumstances.

[Sue R]

I will have to walk him at night and I will read up on focus but he already does well normally and I don't know how I can recreated these circumstances.

Thank you for posting more information. That makes it easier to understand the scenario.

 

I think your idea of pottying him on lead after dark is a good choice because it will prevent him from continuing this behavior.

[cmtst2]

Thank you for posting more information. That makes it easier to understand the scenario.

 

I think your idea of pottying him on lead after dark is a good choice because it will prevent him from continuing this behavior.

 

Yes, but since I rescued him I have become disabled and was trying to avoid icy conditions. Obviously I had concerns over this but really wanted someone to say "Oh yeah just do this." LOL

 

Thanks for the response.

[Sue R]

Oh, that can pose a problem for you. I wonder if you were able to let him out before dark (if the deer are not an issue before dark) and if he is mature enough and able to "hold it" until you can let him out in the morning.

 

I used to be anal about pottying my dogs just before I went to bed - until I got a dog that likes to do his thing further from the house, and we are right on a dirt road without a yard. I have since found (and my youngest is four years old) that I can walk the dogs before it gets dark (I feed before the walk) and they all do quite nicely until morning (they get out in the morning between 5 and 6:30 generally).

 

Perhaps your dog might be able to adapt to a different schedule, if that will make a positive difference for you?

 

Best wishes!

[olivehill]

What about a long lead? It would give you control while allowing you to stay near to the house and off any ice while he does his business.

[Gloria Atwater]

Hi, cmst2 ~

 

I'll second or third the thought that this is very undesirable behavior. No part of herding involves frenzied behavior, so what you're seeing is just obsession and prey drive. It definitely needs to be curbed. If he ever sees a deer where there is NO fence, you might lose him in a chase.

 

I know with the long winter nights it's hard to NOT let them out after dark, but I like the idea of a long line. You might be able to use that to also redirect his attention back to you, offer some corrections, and begin retraining his attention the way you did with birds and other critters. The long line could be an avenue to allow you to keep hold of him and physically restrict his movements.

 

That or the suggestion of changing his potty times to more daylight hours? I do wish you luck!

 

~ Gloria

[beachdogz]

I simply turn on all the outside lights and go outside and "shoo" everyone from the yard, before I let the dogs out. Usually one stray deer is not a problem as everyone has been trained NOT to chase them...however...no dog is infallible, and so I try to rid the yard of everyone before the dogs go out. As it gets warmer, it becomes even more of a problem as one year, they decided my side yard was a good place to sleep. I had to go out every night and chase them out. They finally got the message.

[ChantalB]

Use a leash attached to the porch, or front door where you just open the door click him on and let him out? Maybe a line on a clothesline. He'll eventually get the point that night time is potty and in fast time, and you can only go a shorter distance away at night.

[cmtst2]

I simply turn on all the outside lights and go outside and "shoo" everyone from the yard, before I let the dogs out. Usually one stray deer is not a problem as everyone has been trained NOT to chase them...however...no dog is infallible, and so I try to rid the yard of everyone before the dogs go out. As it gets warmer, it becomes even more of a problem as one year, they decided my side yard was a good place to sleep. I had to go out every night and chase them out. They finally got the message. :P/>/>

 

More info please...how did you train them not to chase the deer? It's over in a blink of an eye because they are not trapped like the critters in the back porch where I have close control over the dog. I'm worried because there are 3 or 4 deer that run the path and the buck is aggressive. The buck last year tore up the back of the yard doing that snorting pawing display with me just going to my car a 1/2 acre away.

 

I am already going out with a flashlight because of the skunks and keep the porch light on all night for it, but the deer don't really care. I have him on a lead hooked to the house for now but he is not happy at all with this change. Loki is a trickster and can get out of the fence if he really wants to, but in 5 years the deer are the ONLY reason he has escaped so I need to direct my attention at training him not to. I didn't clicker train him because all the other lessons were with me giving verbal and hand commands.