Learning to raise a puppy

[OurBoys]

Gary, how did Xena act the 2nd and 3rd time you put the harness on her?

[Gary_and_Karen]

My favorite commands in addition to the basics (because they are so useful) are leave it, get out, go to bed, that'll do--I use this to signal that we are done with the game of the moment, look in your basket/put it in the basket, mine, go potty, and go long. Star chewed some but really not bad compared to my goat hound Seven when she was a pup. Star did chew on us, but a simple high pitched "ow!" a few times seemed to fix it pretty quickly. Stay on the forum and keep using the advice you get here. Star is 3 now and she's the best dog, thanks in very large part to the advice I got here.

 

Xena is a Border Collie / Beagle mix, and while her biting on us has greatly diminished, she still occasionally gets into the grabbing on the clothes we are wearing and playing tug of war and it is not easy to get her to stop but hopefully that will eventually diminish also. (the high pitched "ow" does not seem to phase her much)

 

She does like to find twigs, ect to chew on outside so I have to try to keep her focused on chasing her ball, some days she really gets into chasing the ball, other days she loses interest in chasing the ball pretty quick.

 

I do indeed appreciate the advice I get from this forum, it is especially helpful when you have never raised a puppy from a very young age (from about 9 weeks old) before :P/>/>

[Gary_and_Karen]

Gary, how did Xena act the 2nd and 3rd time you put the harness on her?

 

Surprisingly enough the next few times were not anywhere as bad as the first time (she was really fighting it the first time) but she still gives somewhat of a hard time because she wants to try to chew on it as I am trying to put it on, and she won't stay still long enough for me to really get it fully adjusted.

 

Once it is on and we go outside she then seems fine with it, and it really does seem to make a difference with her not pulling like she would with the leash attached to her collar. When I used to try to get her to come inside with it attached to the collar she would resist and pull back or sit like a stubborn mule if she was not ready to come in yet, but with the harness when I lead her back in the house she seems to come a lot more willingly.

[bcnewe2]

I know you are trying but it sure sounds like Xena is ruling your household. No dog of mine could get away with not letting me put a collar or a harness on. I would grab her little cheeks firmly and tell her to chill or whatever word you choose but I would hold her little face till she did, no matter what she was trying to do. They learn pretty quickly Mom will let go and life will get back to normal if I sit here quietly.

 

Same with chewing on my clothes. I would take the dog and hold her still firmly by the cheeks or full body (yes it's not a happy place but it's not hurting her either) till I had her full attention then tell her NO in a firm voice. If she did it again I'd do the same thing. Pups do not like to be confined like that (or at least mine don't) so they quickly learn to behave to gain back thier freedom. Imagine just grabbing the sides of her cheeks. Don't pinch but tightly hold her still.

 

Just my ideas but I am not a positive only trainer so take it as you will.

 

And as far as the peanut butter, I would deduct the amount of kibble that you think would equal what PB that your are feeding her. I've never worried that they are getting to much. Freeze your kongs so it talks longer to lick out.

[Gary_and_Karen]

I know you are trying but it sure sounds like Xena is ruling your household. No dog of mine could get away with not letting me put a collar or a harness on. I would grab her little cheeks firmly and tell her to chill or whatever word you choose but I would hold her little face till she did, no matter what she was trying to do. They learn pretty quickly Mom will let go and life will get back to normal if I sit here quietly.

 

Same with chewing on my clothes. I would take the dog and hold her still firmly by the cheeks or full body (yes it's not a happy place but it's not hurting her either) till I had her full attention then tell her NO in a firm voice. If she did it again I'd do the same thing. Pups do not like to be confined like that (or at least mine don't) so they quickly learn to behave to gain back thier freedom. Imagine just grabbing the sides of her cheeks. Don't pinch but tightly hold her still.

 

Just my ideas but I am not a positive only trainer so take it as you will.

 

And as far as the peanut butter, I would deduct the amount of kibble that you think would equal what PB that your are feeding her. I've never worried that they are getting to much. Freeze your kongs so it talks longer to lick out.

 

Thanks for the ideas, I think there are some who feel that "positive only" training is best, but I am willing to try some "tough love" training in instances where nothing else seems to work unless someone has any reason why it really should be avoided. I read that Border Collies are very sensitive so I try to guard against doing anything that would cause any lasting emotional harm, but if doing what you said is indeed ok if necessary then I will consider it.

 

I was hoping that time alone would be enough, that after a period of time she would eventually get used to having the harness put on and stop doing any fussing at all when I try to put it on.

 

I know there are different viewpoints in some areas, and I am willing to hear both sides as I know everyone does care about their dogs even if they differ in what they feel is best

 

I have been meaning to try the peanut butter Kong freezing trick, Xena knows we will have a peanut butter Kong waiting in her crate at bedtime, so when she come back in the house from her evening potty run she head right for her crate, and by that time she is ready for bed and wants to go to bed anyhow, but still looks forward to the Kong

 

I guess puppies need extra rest and I guess as she gets older she might want to stay up a little longer and that is fine, we would enjoy having her company for longer in the evening

 

Just wondering - what time does everyone's dog usually go to bed and did the time change as they got past the puppy stage ?

 

Xena is now about 18 weeks old and usually wants to go to bed about 6:30 in the evening. (I would be glad to let her stay up longer, but right now that is when she wants to go in her crate and go to bed)

[bcnewe2]

I was hoping that time alone would be enough, that after a period of time she would eventually get used to having the harness put on and stop doing any fussing at all when I try to put it on

 

If you don't explain or show her what is expected of her how will she know or out grow what is becoming a habit? by that I mean if I squirm or misbehave I get away with it. So why not?

 

 

but if doing what you said is indeed ok if necessary then I will consider it.

 

Ok with whom? The puppy police? You are the boss, if things are ok with you then they are ok for her.

 

I am getting the impression or maybe you mentioned before that you don't have children. Well let me just say, had I not set boundaries and limitations on my children they'd of never survived childhood and neither would I

Good luck

[bcnewe2]

And just a quick note, she's not going to be happy and she'll probably put up quite a fuss because up to this point she has been making her own rules. If you are not going to follow through with your corrections (like holding her still till she stops squirming) then I'd skip the whole thing cause you will just be reaffirming to her that she can get away with whatever by fussing and making a big stink. DOgs do what they learn and what works for them. So by letting her do the things she is doing hoping or praying that she'll out grow the parts you don't like you are raising what will turn into a braty iill mannered dog. And I know you're learning yourself but all this worry and coddling is maybe one of my pet peeves. I don't mean to sound harsh but geesh...get on with training your puppy not letting her train you!

[bcnewe2]

When I used to try to get her to come inside with it attached to the collar she would resist and pull back or sit like a stubborn mule if she was not ready to come in yet

 

So what did you do? Let her stay outside a while longer? What was the lesson that was taught? If I put up a fuss I get my way....

Not good

[Gary_and_Karen]

If you don't explain or show her what is expected of her how will she know or out grow what is becoming a habit? by that I mean if I squirm or misbehave I get away with it. So why not?

 

 

 

 

Ok with whom? The puppy police? You are the boss, if things are ok with you then they are ok for her.

 

I am getting the impression or maybe you mentioned before that you don't have children. Well let me just say, had I not set boundaries and limitations on my children they'd of never survived childhood and neither would I

Good luck

 

I thought that since the 2nd and 3rd time I put on her harness she was not as bad as the first attempt that that meant each time would get better as she got more used ot it.

 

When she made a fuss about coming in (when I just used the leash and collar) I still made her come in, she just was more reluctant than she is with the harness.

 

I understand your reasoning, and I will try some "tough love" training, I can understand that youngsters need to be taught what behavior is not acceptable for their own good

[G. Festerling]

I have zero doubt that you want not just the best, but as all of us, the very best. News flash, no one raises a pup without mistakes. Or without learning things along the way that you may change, add or eliminate next time.

 

It is a puppy! Not a lion or a glass figure. One you fear as it could have you for a snack. The other as it is breakable. It is good strategy to take care with either.

 

But it is a puppy. Man up, get off the forum, follow the advice given. You got so much it should keep you busy. Stay away from extremes and trust yourself a bit as well.

 

Truth is, millions of dogs have eaten Alpo and did fine. Truth is, millions of dogs survive mediocre training or owners. Plenty even survive bad owners. The list goes on.

 

Since you are no where near any of those , I am sure Xena will grow into a lovely girl if you just give her some clear guidance.

 

Repeat after me - "she is a puppy, not man eater!"

[Gary_and_Karen]

I have zero doubt that you want not just the best, but as all of us, the very best. News flash, no one raises a pup without mistakes. Or without learning things along the way that you may change, add or eliminate next time.

 

It is a puppy! Not a lion or a glass figure. One you fear as it could have you for a snack. The other as it is breakable. It is good strategy to take care with either.

 

But it is a puppy. Man up, get off the forum, follow the advice given. You got so much it should keep you busy. Stay away from extremes and trust yourself a bit as well.

 

Truth is, millions of dogs have eaten Alpo and did fine. Truth is, millions of dogs survive mediocre training or owners. Plenty even survive bad owners. The list goes on.

 

Since you are no where near any of those , I am sure Xena will grow into a lovely girl if you just give her some clear guidance.

 

Repeat after me - "she is a puppy, not man eater!" ;)/>

 

Thanks, I understand, (be cautious, not paranoid, and use common sense and avoid extremes)

 

.......and yes, "she is a puppy" with all the various puppy stuff that goes along with it

 

I'll train her with firmness but with love and knowing she will learn, maybe not overnight, but she will learn as she is smart

[rushdoggie]

And FYI: if you embrace more positive training methods, it doesn't mean that puppy always gets what she wants or never gets upset or frustrated. For example, the holding until the squirming stops before you put her down. My puppy doesn't like being held when he was an agenda on his mind but I can't have him squirming and falling out of my arms, so I never set him down when he is pitching a fit. I don't yell at him, hit him etc, but I hang on until he calms a fraction of a second, and then set him down. Next time, he calms quicker and I require more relaxing. Etc etc. Now he knows if I hold him and he wants down, the quickest route to getting there is being calm.

 

Same with coming out of a crate and being let out the back door. If he is not sitting calmly and doesn't wait for release then the doors don't open. I am sure he experienced great frustration initially, and I raised my criteria gradually (starting with moving away from the door, then sitting his bottom on the ground, then holding it for a few seconds, now he will hold a down stay until released even if the crate or back door is wide open) ensuring he "got it" before moving in.

 

Positive does not equal permissive.

[Gary_and_Karen]

Well, I started trying the "tough love" training this afternoon.

 

The first time while outside and she started acting up - biting and pulling on my pants legs and resisting going back in the house I tried holding her still. She was squirming and fighting it quite a bit but eventually calmed down and surprisingly then behaved herself going back in the house.

 

Unfortunately the second time while outside she had a lot more fight when I tried holding her still after she started biting and pulling on my clothes. She was like a wild thing squirming and flipping on her back trying to get free while biting. I am a strong person but it took most of my strength to flip her back over and hold her still.

 

Every time when she settled down and I thought she would behave and I let her loose she started right back up again. It took about 5 episodes over about 20 minutes before she was behaving enough to get her back in the house, but even then on the way back in we went thru another few holding episodes.

 

The results of the first time was encouraging, the results of the second time was discouraging. I feel like she is not going to want to be around me and like I am losing my pal, but I have to make her behave for her own good, so she might no longer like me (hopefully no longer than till she's trained) but at least she'll be behave properly.

 

Hopefully I will start seeing some better results of improved behavior at least by the end of a week or two of this "tough love" of holding her still when she misbehaves.

 

As much as I want her to be my pal, I know I have to be tough to get her behavior under control, so she might view me as a "mean daddy" in the meantime :(/>

[Gary_and_Karen]

And FYI: if you embrace more positive training methods, it doesn't mean that puppy always gets what she wants or never gets upset or frustrated. For example, the holding until the squirming stops before you put her down. My puppy doesn't like being held when he was an agenda on his mind but I can't have him squirming and falling out of my arms, so I never set him down when he is pitching a fit. I don't yell at him, hit him etc, but I hang on until he calms a fraction of a second, and then set him down. Next time, he calms quicker and I require more relaxing. Etc etc. Now he knows if I hold him and he wants down, the quickest route to getting there is being calm.

 

Same with coming out of a crate and being let out the back door. If he is not sitting calmly and doesn't wait for release then the doors don't open. I am sure he experienced great frustration initially, and I raised my criteria gradually (starting with moving away from the door, then sitting his bottom on the ground, then holding it for a few seconds, now he will hold a down stay until released even if the crate or back door is wide open) ensuring he "got it" before moving in.

 

Positive does not equal permissive.

 

Thanks, but with Xena, forcing her to stay still when she acts up she likely views as negative herself :lol:/>

 

Holding Xena still is tough, both on me and her the way she fights it to the extreme, but I guess that's why it's called tough love, it's tough both physically and emotionally on both of us :mellow:/>

[bcnewe2]

She is testing you. She's had the run of you and the place for quite some time. Try putting her collar and leash back on and telling her its time to go in (happily). If she comes along happily praise her. If she fights stop moving till she settles then back to the job of going in. No matter what she does don't give in to her but you don't have to fight her either. Just be matter of fact and do it.

Holding her still is just so she learns to calm down and listen to what's next or just to calm down. Don't make it a battle just be a tree. Strong and firm, let her battle you not the opposite. Don't be mad or angry and don't feel bad for her. She doesn't feel bad for you. Just confused because you have taken control and that is not her norm. Soon she will realize she is not the boss of you or her. You are and she will love and respect you that much more.

Don't get caught up in perfection. If she settles for a moment let her go and praise her, not excitedly but with a nice voice. Then go back to whatever you were doing, going in the house or just stopping her from chewing. Don't praise her for not being bad, praise her for being good.

I'm impressed that you are even trying something that is obviously hard for you. Good job!

Little steps win the race.

[Gary_and_Karen]

She is testing you. She's had the run of you and the place for quite some time. Try putting her collar and leash back on and telling her its time to go in (happily). If she comes along happily praise her. If she fights stop moving till she settles then back to the job of going in. No matter what she does don't give in to her but you don't have to fight her either. Just be matter of fact and do it.

Holding her still is just so she learns to calm down and listen to what's next or just to calm down. Don't make it a battle just be a tree. Strong and firm, let her battle you not the opposite. Don't be mad or angry and don't feel bad for her. She doesn't feel bad for you. Just confused because you have taken control and that is not her norm. Soon she will realize she is not the boss of you or her. You are and she will love and respect you that much more.

Don't get caught up in perfection. If she settles for a moment let her go and praise her, not excitedly but with a nice voice. Then go back to whatever you were doing, going in the house or just stopping her from chewing. Don't praise her for not being bad, praise her for being good.

I'm impressed that you are even trying something that is obviously hard for you. Good job!

Little steps win the race.

 

Well, it's not easy, but I now understand it's necessary, I just hope she learns quickly so we don't have to go thru this for weeks as she is quite resistant to being made to hold still when she's in her rowdy bad behavior mode and it's like trying to tame a bucking bronco who has never had a saddle on before

[bcnewe2]

Make sure you aren't holding her to long. And I hope I didn't give the impression that I meant hold her off the ground. I really meant hold her still right there on the ground. With her feet still under her.

 

Stay strong and be inventive, if you figure out antoher way to make her settle go for it but she must learn to settle.

 

You are letting her run around outside to get her puppy zoomies out I hope. She should be tired after playing outside even if she doesn't think she's ready to come in she should still be a bit worn out.

 

If you have ever seen a momma dog hold a young pup down you can see that they are capable of calming down. I am not telling you to be her momma dog by holding her down I'm just pointing out that she is capable of calming down or holding still.

 

Don't be mean when holding her still, issue your calming word(s) and then be soothing but still firm and determined.

 

As soon as it is over, make sure you are smiling and normal to her. Not all cute voice, that's usually a rile up voice around here but a soothing quiet voice.

 

So you have never really corrected her before now? IT's going to take a little work to get there but you will.

 

And please positive only people I am not advocating beating or torturing this wee pup, just being a firm good fair puppy owner.

[Gary_and_Karen]

Xena has been behaving better overall, but she still has some behavior we need to get her out of doing.

 

She has a continuing habit of wanting to give my wife and I a hard time when trying to get her to come back in the house on a leash. Xena will pull the other way when she doesn't want to come inside, and also bite at my pants leg (or my wife's bare leg), she will continue this even when in the house and gives us a hard time taking off (or putting on) her leash, once she is back in her indoor x-pen she settles down again.

 

I have tried holding her still (not an easy thing to do) sometimes she will calm down, but usually just until I release my hold.

 

For some reason she seems to have a tendency to be more well behaved first thing in the morning when I first let her out of her crate to take her outside to potty.

 

QUESTION:

 

Has anyone had any expereince with trying to use a "silent dog whistle" to help curb bad behavior ?

 

I have read elsewhere where some people said they had success and others not.

 

I thought that maybe when Xena would resist coming in the house and/or biting on my pants leg that the silent dog whistle would somehow get her to stop.

 

Also there are occasions when she will get in an excessive barking mode without it really being necessary, and I thought a silent dog whistle might stop that also.

 

If she had just recently been potty for both pee and poop, has food, water, toys, and there is nothing legitimate to warrant barking, then there should be a way to get her out of barking for no really good reason other than she is hoping for an extra treat :-)

 

(I do make sure she gets plently of running exercise each day, right now I run with her on a leash as she chases a ball then runs and runs with it, and I get my exercise too :-)

 

I bought a 100 foot vinyl covered wire to make a homemade dog run so I can play ball with her outside without having to hold a leash, I have an extra leash I would have the wire going theu the handle and just leaving it outside to attach to her when I take her outside to play and run.

 

QUESTION:

Anyone have any experience or tips with making a homemade outdoor run using an overhead wire to attach a leash to ?

[gcv-border]

I know nothing about a 'silent dog whistle' and how it works to curb bad behavior - maybe it just interrupts the bad behavior?

 

What do you mean by 'bad behavior'? IMHO, I think you should identify the SPECIFIC bad behavior you wish to stop and then come up with a SPECIFIC plan of action for training - not just use a generalized tool that others say will cure 'what ails you'.

 

Jovi

[Gary_and_Karen]

I know nothing about a 'silent dog whistle' and how it works to curb bad behavior - maybe it just interrupts the bad behavior?

 

What do you mean by 'bad behavior'? IMHO, I think you should identify the SPECIFIC bad behavior you wish to stop and then come up with a SPECIFIC plan of action for training - not just use a generalized tool that others say will cure 'what ails you'.

 

Jovi

 

Mainly the things I mentioned are bad behavior, perhaps "unacceptable" behavior might be a better way to put it since I don't think she is deliberately trying to be bad.

 

Specifically:

 

Pulling the other way on the leash when trying to bring her back in the house.

 

Biting my pants leg (or wife's bare leg) when trying to bring her back inside.

 

Excessive barking without a legitimate reason.

 

Giving us a hard time when trying to put on (or take off) the leash.

 

I have heard two different views, one was that the silent dog whistle stops them by getting their attention, another was that the dog might not like the sound it makes so stops doing unacceptable stuff so as not to hear it again

 

(do a search online on "silent dog whistle" along with something like curb beahvior or something like that and you'll see varying things about it, but I trust the people on this forum and thought that maybe someone here had some experience with it)

[gcv-border]

 

I have heard two different views, one was that the silent dog whistle stops them by getting their attention, another was that the dog might not like the sound it makes so stops doing unacceptable stuff so as not to hear it again

 

(

This is what I thought - an interruption. As I said before, I prefer to train with a specific goal in mind - not use an 'all-in-one' tool.

 

Too busy now, but will be back to suggest specific training to stop one or two of the 'bad behaviors' - unless someone else offers suggestions and saves me some typing.

 

Jovi

[waffles]

I really think you could benefit from having a trainer come to your house for a few private lessons. There are many in my area that come to your house (instead of doing a group/general type obedience class) and address the specific issues you are having. They can show you (the most important thing the internet can't do for you) what you should and should not be doing to help get her doing what you want. I am sure if you do some searching online you will find a trainer (look for in-home training or a club that has trainers who do home visits) who will come to your place and work with you for a few sessions.

 

A silent dog whistle is not going to solve your problems. It can't do anything a loud hand clap, or sharp 'hey' or 'enough' from your voice can't do. This is why I really think you would benefit from having a person show you how to handle the situations you need help with. Sometimes working with dogs and training them is more about how you are doing something then what you are doing-a trainer in front of you can show you the fine details to help progress your training.

[mum24dog]

Pulling the other way on the leash when trying to bring her back in the house.

 

Think of it from her pov - you play with her outside, that's where all the fun is.

Why would she want to go inside? What incentive are you giving her to convince her that going inside will be more rewarding than staying out?

 

Biting my pants leg (or wife's bare leg) when trying to bring her back inside.

 

Have you played tug with her so you can redirect her teeth onto a toy?

 

Excessive barking without a legitimate reason.

 

There's always a legitimate reason to a dog, even if it's only to hear the sound of their own voice. Believe me - I have a terrier so I know. Without knowing what sets her off it's hard to suggest what you should do in her case. (Apologies if you have already said.) You would benefit from a 1-1 home visit from someone who is not of the Yank and Yell school of thought.

 

Giving us a hard time when trying to put on (or take off) the leash.

 

Stop treating it as a battle. As said in another thread you don't want a dog that will duck away from your hands. I would put a short tab lead on her and leave it on while you are around, then just calmly slip a normal lead through the handle when you need to. Much less fiddling about. Scatter food in the floor while you do it both to keep her busy and make the action rewarding. It's what worked with our hand shy BC that would bite if restrained by the collar when we got him.

 

Have you worked on making her allowing you to touch her collar a rewarding experience?

 

Don't lean over her when you do this. Try to approach her from the side, even get down to her level to do it.

 

I'm sure you'll get through this if you don't grab at her.

 

There's no magic wand that you can wave and all the behaviour you don't want will disappear but if you learn to see the world through your pup's eyes it will help you and her.

[Gary_and_Karen]

Are there any concerns I need to be aware of as far as having my dog spayed ?

 

It has been about 15 years since I had a dog spayed so it is not fresh in my mind, and I don't remember giving it a second thought back then.

 

Xena is now about 5 months old and gets her last booster shots in about two weeks and the vet said to wait till after that to have her spayed.

 

My vet understands I am on a tight budget and can't afford the fee she would need to charge (around $300) and had no problem suggesting I take her to a spay clinic or simular place (SPCA, ect.) that offers low cost spaying.

 

I had read that such clinics have a lot of experience since that is all they do and they do many of them per day.

 

I found a web site online that helps people find such clinics in their area -

 

http://www.spayusa.org/search.php

 

......are there any concerns I should have about using such a clinic ?

 

ALSO: Xena is a very active dog that loves to run and jump up, ect. and I heard that dogs need to avoid such activity for about 2 weeks, so is it normal to ask a vet to prescribe a mild setative to keep your dog docile for that time ?

 

I heard also that they need to wear a cone for that time and will need pain medicine too, is that correct ?

 

Am I just being over cautious are are there any real concerns overall to have ?

[dmadrid]

If you can wait (i.e., if you can commit to keeping her contained when she goes into heat so that she doesn't accidentally breed), I would wait until after she is 1 year old to have her spayed. Hormones have an impact on growth, and when the growth plates close, so it is nice to let them grow up intact, if you can.

 

If you can't wait, then a clinic should be fine. There are a few of them here in Texas that do low cost spay/neuter, and they do a fine job.

 

As far as keeping your dog calm post-op... it's a challenge. You will probably receive a few doses of Tramadol (a pain killer that has a sedative effect) after the spay, but you only need to use it for a few days. After that, you need to keep your dog on leash/crated/penned and be creative about different ways to keep her calm. Kongs are good (especially frozen ones). You can also use that time to work on quiet tricks (like, give me paw, pick up that thing... that sort of stuff).