Food, Treats, Toys, ect. - What do you think is the best ?

[Carson Crazies]

Words are just words until a dog or a human associates a meaning with the words. Does that make sense? So what you need to do is find a way to help her associate meaning with the word.

 

As for pleasing their masters... that's a biddability thing. It varies. My border collies vary in this regard. But really? My least biddable border collie is 10x more biddable than my one non-border collie. That particular dog is 12x more biddable than my ex-husband's border collie mix.

 

I did find that my least biddable BC has become more biddable as he's aged. My most biddable BC has become less biddable in certain circumstances as he's aged. It really, really depends on the dog, and depends on the genetics, and depends on environment. Like everything... it depends.

 

Now. As for the squirt gun. What do YOU think?

 

For some dogs the squirt gun will act as a correction. Then you need to give her something else to do. Right away. Stuff a toy in her mouth. Stuff a treat in her mouth. Something else.

 

For some dogs the squirt gun will simply act as in iterruption. You need to then give her something else to do.

 

For some dogs the squirt gun will be fun. Uh... yeah. So then you need a new plan.

 

You might also consider using a can of pennies or something that makes noise. You might throw this on the ground to interrupt and then get her attention. Something standing out to me in what you've said so far is that you can interrupt her and she'll stop. Briefly. In that brief moment you need to find something else for her to do. Something you DO want her to do.

 

ETA: I also wanted to tell you that the un-biddable dog and I were able to do some agility together. She turned out to be a pretty nice dog. She had some quirks, but she and I managed together. The biggest thing was that I had to find out what motivated her, and I also had to recognize that there were certain circumstances in which she was going to act in a certain way, and plan accordingly. I say this to say that you can take the dog's desire to work for itself and mold that into something that works for YOU. So don't give up!

[waffles]

Something standing out to me in what you've said so far is that you can interrupt her and she'll stop. Briefly. In that brief moment you need to find something else for her to do. Something you DO want her to do.

 

Exactly. When you tell a dog "no, I don't want you to do that"...you need to tell them "but, this is what I want you to do." The dog is not going to figure out what you want them to do on their own. That is why most 'corrections' are just a brief interruption, then the dog is back to doing what it was before. You need to give them the most important piece of information-what is acceptable behavior.

 

Either avoid the situation (step away from her/give her a break before she gets to biting you) or if she already is, then interrupt and shove something appropriate in her mouth or engage her in a different way (start trick training by having her sit or down and use that as a positive interaction/distraction).

 

Like others have said, don't worry so much on the fine details yet. Get to know her, get to know what works with her and what works for you and have some fun. It sounds like she will turn out just fine.

[Howling Farmer]

For what it's worth, my friend had a German Shepherd puppy who sounds exactly like Xena, in regards to the biting. My friend was black and blue and tried everything from crate time outs to growling at the pup to squirting lemon juice in the pup's mouth (he was desperate.) I don't think any of it worked. BUT the puppy did grow out of it! I will try to find out how old the pup was, so you can start counting the days. ;)/>

Leslie

[Gary_and_Karen]

Exactly. When you tell a dog "no, I don't want you to do that"...you need to tell them "but, this is what I want you to do." The dog is not going to figure out what you want them to do on their own. That is why most 'corrections' are just a brief interruption, then the dog is back to doing what it was before. You need to give them the most important piece of information-what is acceptable behavior.

 

Either avoid the situation (step away from her/give her a break before she gets to biting you) or if she already is, then interrupt and shove something appropriate in her mouth or engage her in a different way (start trick training by having her sit or down and use that as a positive interaction/distraction).

 

Like others have said, don't worry so much on the fine details yet. Get to know her, get to know what works with her and what works for you and have some fun. It sounds like she will turn out just fine.

 

When I am in her pen with her and she gets into her biting mode I have not been able to get her to bite on anything else, I simply have to leave the pen for a while, and I have to try to hold her off as I leave the pen :-)

 

When she finally outgrows her biting mode I will feel so relieved at not having to be on guard when trying to be near her :-)

 

.....but I appreciate the encouragement that she will turn out just fine !

[Gary_and_Karen]

Words are just words until a dog or a human associates a meaning with the words. Does that make sense? So what you need to do is find a way to help her associate meaning with the word.

 

As for pleasing their masters... that's a biddability thing. It varies. My border collies vary in this regard. But really? My least biddable border collie is 10x more biddable than my one non-border collie. That particular dog is 12x more biddable than my ex-husband's border collie mix.

 

I did find that my least biddable BC has become more biddable as he's aged. My most biddable BC has become less biddable in certain circumstances as he's aged. It really, really depends on the dog, and depends on the genetics, and depends on environment. Like everything... it depends.

 

Now. As for the squirt gun. What do YOU think?

 

For some dogs the squirt gun will act as a correction. Then you need to give her something else to do. Right away. Stuff a toy in her mouth. Stuff a treat in her mouth. Something else.

 

For some dogs the squirt gun will simply act as in iterruption. You need to then give her something else to do.

 

For some dogs the squirt gun will be fun. Uh... yeah. So then you need a new plan.

 

You might also consider using a can of pennies or something that makes noise. You might throw this on the ground to interrupt and then get her attention. Something standing out to me in what you've said so far is that you can interrupt her and she'll stop. Briefly. In that brief moment you need to find something else for her to do. Something you DO want her to do.

 

ETA: I also wanted to tell you that the un-biddable dog and I were able to do some agility together. She turned out to be a pretty nice dog. She had some quirks, but she and I managed together. The biggest thing was that I had to find out what motivated her, and I also had to recognize that there were certain circumstances in which she was going to act in a certain way, and plan accordingly. I say this to say that you can take the dog's desire to work for itself and mold that into something that works for YOU. So don't give up!

 

......I guess I'll find my squirt gun and have it ready to try next time she does not respond to no or stop, if it works, great, if not, I'll keep trying to find what does work.

[Gary_and_Karen]

For what it's worth, my friend had a German Shepherd puppy who sounds exactly like Xena, in regards to the biting. My friend was black and blue and tried everything from crate time outs to growling at the pup to squirting lemon juice in the pup's mouth (he was desperate.) I don't think any of it worked. BUT the puppy did grow out of it! I will try to find out how old the pup was, so you can start counting the days. ;)/>/>

Leslie

 

Thanks !

.....it is always encouraging to hear from others' experiences that it is just a matter of time before a puppy gets out of the biting phase, I sure hope she gets out of the biting phase sooner rather than later

[Gary_and_Karen]

I understand that it takes a little time for a puppy to outgrow the hyper/biting phase and there is no instant fix, but I was doing some searching online and read there are some foods like turkey that can have a calming effect which I thought might made Xena more calm and do less barking and biting in the meantime while waiting for her to outgrow that phase. (she can get in a barking mode at times too)

 

I very much prefer not to use any medications, but if there are natural foods that can have a calming effect, then is there any reason not to try it ?

 

Here is a quote from an online dog page:

 

"Turkey is known as a cooling meat in Chinese medicine, and the naturally occurring tryptophan (The stuff that makes us sleepy on Thanksgiving Day) in turkey helps calm the neural activity."

 

another dog web page wrote:

 

"Add a little Parmesan cheese and/or egg whites to your dogs kibble or Kongsicle. They have 8 times the tryptophan that turkey has in it. Tryptophan is the precursor to the production of serotonin (the happy chemical) in the brain. We cant give you exact amounts of parmesan or egg whites on this post since dogs vary in size, but just a sprinkle of these two foods over your dogs kibble should suffice."

 

......anyone ever heard of naturally calming foods and have any personal experience or opinions on how safe and effective it is ?

 

I was thinking of adding some turkey meat to her dry dog food, also there are turkey treats like "BLUE Wilderness Turkey Trail Treat Biscuits" (though it is not cheap for just a 10oz bag)

[mum24dog]

I very much prefer not to use any medications

 

Why would it even cross your mind as a possibility?

 

From everything you have said your pup's behaviour falls within the bounds of normal puppy behaviour. There seems nothing basically wrong with her for you to fix.

 

Your posts have been full of how to stop her doing things and you have had suggestions as to how you could work her brain more which would help with her frustration and boredom which are probably what leads to her making up her own bitey games. Forgive me if you have said that you are trying more training beyond sit and down. What are your plans to give her a purpose in life if it turns out that she needs one?

 

I concur with the poster earlier who advised you to stop overthinking everything. Part of the fun of having a pup is enjoying the baby craziness - don't wish her life away wanting her to be old before her time. Calm pups are boring to many of us.

 

As for the quotes in your post, it sounds like a load of typical unsubstantiated claims and the subject would need to be looked at in more and scientific detail.

 

I don't know about you but I feel sleepy after any heavy meal, turkey or not.

 

The amount of a substance in food means nothing in itself - is it the right form of the substance to have a potentially beneficial effect? Can the consumer process the substance into a usable form? It could go straight in one end and out the other unchanged in a dog for all we know. I fed one of my stressy dogs carrots for a while after learning that they were high in Tryptophan just to see what happened - nothing. No different with or without them.

 

There are many over the counter miracle calming ingredients on the market and I have yet to find one that has any effect on my dogs.

[Root Beer]

Hi Gary_and_Karen, have you considered getting the Control Unleashed Puppy book and working the exercises with Xena?

 

Even if you have no plans for sports or performance, it would most likely be very beneficial to both you and your puppy. It could prove to be something very enjoyable that you could do together, and it would give you tools to help Xena build self control that will be to her benefit, and yours, for a lifetime. You would glean strategies to apply to the biting now, and be equipped to deal with new challenges in the future.

 

At this point, just based on what you have written, I believe it would most likely be a more fruitful, and puppy-appropriate, investment than calming supplements.

[Gary_and_Karen]

Why would it even cross your mind as a possibility?

 

From everything you have said your pup's behaviour falls within the bounds of normal puppy behaviour. There seems nothing basically wrong with her for you to fix.

 

Your posts have been full of how to stop her doing things and you have had suggestions as to how you could work her brain more which would help with her frustration and boredom which are probably what leads to her making up her own bitey games. Forgive me if you have said that you are trying more training beyond sit and down. What are your plans to give her a purpose in life if it turns out that she needs one?

 

I concur with the poster earlier who advised you to stop overthinking everything. Part of the fun of having a pup is enjoying the baby craziness - don't wish her life away wanting her to be old before her time. Calm pups are boring to many of us.

 

As for the quotes in your post, it sounds like a load of typical unsubstantiated claims and the subject would need to be looked at in more and scientific detail.

 

I don't know about you but I feel sleepy after any heavy meal, turkey or not.

 

The amount of a substance in food means nothing in itself - is it the right form of the substance to have a potentially beneficial effect? Can the consumer process the substance into a usable form? It could go straight in one end and out the other unchanged in a dog for all we know. I fed one of my stressy dogs carrots for a while after learning that they were high in Tryptophan just to see what happened - nothing. No different with or without them.

 

There are many over the counter miracle calming ingredients on the market and I have yet to find one that has any effect on my dogs.

 

I guess I should have phrased that differntly, because I would not want to give any meds unless it was absolutely necessary and recommended by our vet.

 

Xena does love carrots and eats them daily, but I was not aware that carrots were high in Tryptophan. I have read both pro and con on feeding dogs turkey meat, in fact I just saw the comment below in a comment section on a dog page -

 

"I work for a vet clinic and we always tell our clients no turkey...its very fiberus and most dogs get stomach upset with turkey, or can get pancreatitis. Please ask your veterinarian first."

 

http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-magazines/dogworld/calming-diet-for-your-anxious-dog.aspx

 

.....is there any validity to that comment at all ?

 

I myself am a person that shys away from taking meds at all except for a rare headache I might use an asperin or tylnol if it is bad enough.

 

.....the bottom line right now is that I don't so much mind the energentic craziness itself, its just that she switches into biting mode too quickly to have any real time to try to train her because once she gets into a biting mode nothing seems to stop it except a time out in her pen or crate.

 

I know I need to have patience and try to do some quick 5 minute training sessions before she is tempted to get into her biting mode again :-)

 

As time goes on her non-biting periods should start increasing.

 

I do have plans to teach her a lot more than lay down and sit, right now it's a challenge with the limited time span before she gets back in a biting mode. She will not be a working dog, but I do want her to have an enjoyable and active life as a beloved family member and have both physical activities as well as mental challenges to keep her life interesting and fun :-)

[Gary_and_Karen]

Hi Gary_and_Karen, have you considered getting the Control Unleashed Puppy book and working the exercises with Xena?

 

Even if you have no plans for sports or performance, it would most likely be very beneficial to both you and your puppy. It could prove to be something very enjoyable that you could do together, and it would give you tools to help Xena build self control that will be to her benefit, and yours, for a lifetime. You would glean strategies to apply to the biting now, and be equipped to deal with new challenges in the future.

 

At this point, just based on what you have written, I believe it would most likely be a more fruitful, and puppy-appropriate, investment than calming supplements.

 

Right now any exercises / training might be limited to as short as 5 to maybe 10 minutes before she reverts to a biting mode, but I will try to do what I can now as I wait for her non-biting periods to get longer :-)

[Blackdawgs]

If you are not doing this already, you need to get this pup into some type of class, prefereably a puppy class and preferably stay away from trainers associated with stores and training chains. A good puppy or basic obedience class should address the biting and other management issues.

 

I totally agree with reading and instituting the Control Unleashed puppy program.

 

Several 5 minute training sessons a day is perfect for a puppy.

[mum24dog]

"I work for a vet clinic and we always tell our clients no turkey...its very fiberus and most dogs get stomach upset with turkey, or can get pancreatitis. Please ask your veterinarian first."

 

I don't know about US vets but the majority here in the UK know very little about canine nutrition unless they take a specific interest in the subject. It is covered only minimally in normal training and then is likely to be in the form of talks given by food manufacturers - hardly objective.

 

I believe it's the fat in poultry skin that is considered a factor in pancreatitis but how many will be feeding enough turkey skin to do that? Dogs "can" get pancreatitis but in reality what percentage actually do, and of those that do how certain can anyone be that turkey alone was a major factor, even if that's all the dog ever ate? All questions that need to be answered when assessing risk.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is supposed to be if turkey is "fibrous" and I doubt very much whether most dogs do get a stomach upset with it. I would guess that it's not likely to be fibrous when processed into kibble.

 

Most dogs IME have a pretty cast iron digestive system.

 

Right now any exercises / training might be limited to as short as 5 to maybe 10 minutes

 

5 mins is fine for a pup. A little several times a day works better than one long session even if a pup will cooperate for longer.

[Gary_and_Karen]

If you are not doing this already, you need to get this pup into some type of class, prefereably a puppy class and preferably stay away from trainers associated with stores and training chains. A good puppy or basic obedience class should address the biting and other management issues.

 

I totally agree with reading and instituting the Control Unleashed puppy program.

 

Several 5 minute training sessons a day is perfect for a puppy.

 

Thanks, as far as Xena getting around other puppies, my vet recommends not letting her around other dogs until about 2 weeks after her last vaccines are given.

 

I have heard pros and cons on vaccines, but my vet assures me the pros far outweight any possible cons, and they vaccinate their personal pets and seem to have a genuine concern for animals where it is not just a business to them.

[Gary_and_Karen]

I don't know about US vets but the majority here in the UK know very little about canine nutrition unless they take a specific interest in the subject. It is covered only minimally in normal training and then is likely to be in the form of talks given by food manufacturers - hardly objective.

 

I believe it's the fat in poultry skin that is considered a factor in pancreatitis but how many will be feeding enough turkey skin to do that? Dogs "can" get pancreatitis but in reality what percentage actually do, and of those that do how certain can anyone be that turkey alone was a major factor, even if that's all the dog ever ate? All questions that need to be answered when assessing risk.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is supposed to be if turkey is "fibrous" and I doubt very much whether most dogs do get a stomach upset with it. I would guess that it's not likely to be fibrous when processed into kibble.

 

Most dogs IME have a pretty cast iron digestive system.

 

 

 

5 mins is fine for a pup. A little several times a day works better than one long session even if a pup will cooperate for longer.

 

I agree, and believe that it is best that only lean turkey meat should be given, not the skin or fat (or very little, if any) (I'm sure dogs need a small amount of fat, I'm not sure, but probally very little I would think)

 

Someone on the web mentioned about what would dogs naturally eat in the wild and they said stuff like chickens, turkeys, ect.

 

The 5 minute sessions sdo sound right now that I think about it, because there might be times when their attention span is shorter and they want to do something else for a while.

[rushdoggie]

Thanks, as far as Xena getting around other puppies, my vet recommends not letting her around other dogs until about 2 weeks after her last vaccines are given.

 

I have heard pros and cons on vaccines, but my vet assures me the pros far outweight any possible cons, and they vaccinate their personal pets and seem to have a genuine concern for animals where it is not just a business to them.

 

You can find healthy, well vaccinated dogs for your pup to socialize with. In fact, its pretty imperitive that you do. Theres a risk anytime you take her in public but the risk she will have issues if shes not socialized to other people, places and dogs in teh critical 7-14 week socialization window is much greater that the risk she will get sick.

 

A well run puppy class has safeguards in place to keep her safe (where I go they clean and disinfect prior to puppy class, all puppies are give a vet clearance and we are taught to avoid public dog places like Petsmart and dog parks until they are old enough to have had the full puppy shot series). They get the socialization benefits (exposure to new things so very critical for young puppies), and early start on training and owner education for problems.

 

How often does Xena go somewhere to experience new things? does this make her calmer and more tired when you get home?

[Gary_and_Karen]

You can find healthy, well vaccinated dogs for your pup to socialize with. In fact, its pretty imperitive that you do. Theres a risk anytime you take her in public but the risk she will have issues if shes not socialized to other people, places and dogs in teh critical 7-14 week socialization window is much greater that the risk she will get sick.

 

A well run puppy class has safeguards in place to keep her safe (where I go they clean and disinfect prior to puppy class, all puppies are give a vet clearance and we are taught to avoid public dog places like Petsmart and dog parks until they are old enough to have had the full puppy shot series). They get the socialization benefits (exposure to new things so very critical for young puppies), and early start on training and owner education for problems.

 

How often does Xena go somewhere to experience new things? does this make her calmer and more tired when you get home?

 

Xena is now within a couple days of being 16 weeks old.

 

She has had socialization with other people as we have had her meet several different friends of ours at different times when they visited us since we got her, and she is immediately very friendly and wants to greet them.

 

She has seen people and dogs in the one visit to Petsmart we took her (but she stayed in the shopping cart) so she was friendly with meeting people outside our home. She is very freindly with the staff at the vets also. There was a small but very loud yapping dog that came in to the vets right before we were ready to leave and that upset her to where I had to carry her out in my arms.

 

We live in a very small semi-rural town so I can check but there might not be any classes close by.

 

We live on 1 1/2 acres of ground with a forest on one side, sometimes if she hears dogs barking in the distance too loudly or sounding too excited she wants to go back in the house, but she did not seem upset seeing others dogs when we were at Petsmart.

 

Of course she was socializing with at least her 2 sisters up until we adopted her at 9 weeks of age as her 2 sisters were in the same pen with her at the SPCA which had gotten them from a family just a few days before that that could not keep the entire litter.

[Root Beer]

Right now any exercises / training might be limited to as short as 5 to maybe 10 minutes before she reverts to a biting mode, but I will try to do what I can now as I wait for her non-biting periods to get longer :-)

 

CU exercises can be worked for 3 - 5 minutes, and would give you tools to actually help her choose to make the non-biting periods longer - and that will probably happen much faster if you start working on some foundation self control now, rather than waiting for her non-biting periods to get longer on their own. You might find that to be a very good thing.

[mum24dog]

(I'm sure dogs need a small amount of fat, I'm not sure, but probally very little I would think)

 

Fat (not carbs or protein) is the primary energy source for a dog so they do need it.

[Gary_and_Karen]

CU exercises can be worked for 3 - 5 minutes, and would give you tools to actually help her choose to make the non-biting periods longer - and that will probably happen much faster if you start working on some foundation self control now, rather than waiting for her non-biting periods to get longer on their own. You might find that to be a very good thing.

 

 

Thanks, good point !

[Gary_and_Karen]

Fat (not carbs or protein) is the primary energy source for a dog so they do need it.

 

Now that I think about it, even humans need a little fat in their diet, but I guess the key (with both dogs and humans :-) is to know how much is ok and how much is too much.

[Gideon's girl]

My first experience with using a meat cleaver was chopping up a whole turkey for the dogs. They did very well on it, skin and all. They only got the amount of skin associated with the cut of meat they were consuming though.

[Maralynn]

I agree, and believe that it is best that only lean turkey meat should be given, not the skin or fat (or very little, if any) (I'm sure dogs need a small amount of fat, I'm not sure, but probally very little I would think)

 

Someone on the web mentioned about what would dogs naturally eat in the wild and they said stuff like chickens, turkeys, ect.

 

 

Fat makes up 18-20% of my dog's caloric intake. It's not a bad thing - it's very healthy for dogs! harder working dogs (like sled dogs) get an even higher amount of fat in their diets because they burn so many calories working.

 

They just get sick if you add too much when they aren't used to it.

 

As far as humans needing a little fat, well, fat makes up probably 15-20% of my daily calories as well and I'm just as lean as my dogs are Humans need healthy fats, too!

[Gary_and_Karen]

Fat makes up 18-20% of my dog's caloric intake. It's not a bad thing - it's very healthy for dogs! harder working dogs (like sled dogs) get an even higher amount of fat in their diets because they burn so many calories working.

 

They just get sick if you add too much when they aren't used to it.

 

As far as humans needing a little fat, well, fat makes up probably 15-20% of my daily calories as well and I'm just as lean as my dogs are ;)/> Humans need healthy fats, too!

 

Thanks for that info for both dogs and us humans too :-)

[juliepoudrier]

Oh good grief, you are not going to kill your dog with some turkey! I just thawed out some the other day and it was slightly freezer burned and so the dogs got it. Miraculously they're all still alive and kicking.

 

Maybe you should spend less time on the Internet and more playing with puppy. Time outs from biting don't need to be terribly long, so you can go back in and train something in 5 minutes, get out when she starts biting and then repeat in 10 minutes.

 

Listen to Kristine and get Control Unleashed and use it. You'll get better information out of that book than you will on the Internet trying to find foods that calm and whatever other ridiculousness might pop up.

 

As for vaccines, there's a whole vaccination thread pinned in the Health section. If she's had two vaccines and the last was given after she was 16 weeks, she's probably safe around other puppies. I wouldn't necessarily take her places where lots of dogs of unknown vaccination status congregate, but most puppy classes will be attended by other vaccinated dogs and the risk of her picking up something is pretty low. The benefit of getting her out may well be worth the slight risk that she'll pick up a disease.

 

J.