Jump to content
BC Boards

Kenz lameness issues


ness_bc
 Share

Recommended Posts

So I said I'd start a thread re Kenz's issues - there is a serious amount of background history behind it. A lot of which is detailed on her blog (http://kenziestraining.blogspot.com.au/)with a few videos at various points but I'll provide a shortened version of what we have done and where we have been.

 

December 2010 she was seriously lame in her front right shoulder. We did the usual 3-5 days crate rest/rimadyl and she was seen by the local vet. I couldn't get in contact with the chiro vet we use and since she was seriously lame we did the pain killer route until I could get her into the chiro.

 

Through most of 2011 she really got no better. She had physio/chiro and we ended up at the first specialist around May for xrays/ultrasound. The "diagnosis" we got was likely biceps tendonitis. She did a few weeks crate rest but it wasn't really improving. In the end it settled down with restricted activity and we got back to running a very short jump grid (she was an agility and obedience dog and still competed in obedience last year but only lightly). The third time through the grid of 3 jumps she came up non-weight bearing on her left hind. She however warmed out of it quickly and my vet friend had a feel over her almost immediately and couldn't find to much to explain the issue.

 

She then had another bad patch with her shoulder and we ended up at a second ortho specialist. She ended up having a 2 course treatment of PRP injections and then full rehab protocol with her shoulder. There was still no real explanation for the hind end 3 legged behavior.

 

While recovering from the shoulder she also developed muscle wastage in her hind end and it was during this time the diagnosis of a medial luxating patella was made in her left hind leg. We monitored it over the course of a couple of months and it progressed from a lowish grade 2 to a high grade 2 in 8 weeks so the decision was made to operate.

 

She had surgery in May of this year. She only had soft tissue procedures and no bone cutting. She was crated for 6 weeks but started having issues again with the leg around week 3 post-op. At her 6 week follow up it was determined that the patella wasn't fully stabilised but we would wait and see based on the fact she had quite bad muscle wastage. She had a physio appointment and trigger points were found higher up in the surgery leg.

 

A couple of weeks ago she pulled up 3 legged chasing birds on her RH (the non surgery leg). Then we were doing obedience and I sent her after her dumbbell and she came back badly lame. Everybody thought RH but I am not so sure. This wasn't the first time she had done a retrieve since her surgery. When I bought her home that evening I carried her up the stairs, she tried to jump on the bed and there was no power in her hind end.

 

I took her to the chiro vet (who is also a holistic vet) within 12 hours of her coming up 3 legged on the RH and he couldn't find a physical explanation to it. She was a little sore but nothing that would explain the significant non-weight bearing behavior. He was the one that thought it may be neuromuscular. He still thinks that to be the case based on my emails.

 

This week she has been back to having issues with the LH. Yesterday I took her to the beach and after 30 minutes she was non-weight bearing while standing stationary and had a seriously choppy gait when I put her back on leash to walk her back to the car.

 

I have also observed a similar non-weight bearing while standing on her RH the other weekend.

 

She has issues with the stair case at home in the evening and still won't jump on the bed.

 

Thats the shortened version of what is turning into a bit of a mystery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree. I don't know about Austrilia but here in Dutchess county NY we have a high concentration of tick borne illness (Lyme #1) but others. Most time almost impossible to diagonose unless intensive testing is done.

 

My horse had Lyme about 10years ago. Strange symptoms lame front, then next week back, muscle wasting etc,etc,etc. Vet thought I worked him too hard, then maybe he got in the grain bucket and was foundering.

 

No, after thousands of dollars of testing a panel was sent to Berkley Ca. and weeks of waiting he was diagonosed with the highest lyme count in a horse that was still able to stand.

 

The illness's that come from something smaller than a pin head are the most fatal and cause the most damage to our animals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was wondering if tick borne diseases were in Australia as well.

 

If there is the possibility and even if the test comes up negative I would try the doxy route as Julie suggested.

 

My borderjack has what is thought to be bicipital tendonitis with a bone spur and some arthritis in his shoulder (xrays were done so we know about the spur and arthritis).

 

I am trying to new joint supplement called 4Cyte which is similar to Sasha's Blend which is made in Australia. I have heard some really awesome reports about Sasha's Blend. SB is not sold in the US as of right now and SB put me in touch with the folks of 4Cyte. Really nice and trusting folks.

 

If you don't have TBDs in Australia I would see about getting back xrays if not already done so. Almost looks like it could be a disc issue.

 

Our holistic vet also thinks Riot has an issue in his neck that causes him to go 3 legged in his hind end. I can't remember what it is but she thinks it was injury from a puppy before we got him.

 

I also wonder if she may be having muscle spasms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure we don't have tick borne diseases. I know they have paralysis ticks in the Eastern states but not where we are.

 

As far as supplements go she is on joint guard and fish oil.

 

Her physio suggested 12 months ago there may be issues in her spine (this was before we knew about the luxating patella and were just dealing with her shoulder issues). Nobody has suggested xrays at this stage, not sure why not I suppose that may be next.

 

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well when pushed they conceded it was a low probability coupled with wanting over a $1000 for diagnostics I said you have to be kidding.

 

I think its her patella bothering her still. Went out again tonight and she was back on three legs on the leg that was operated on. At least that makes sense kind of. Pisses me off it wasn't fixed the first time though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have basically been told to do what she is comfortable doing but no agility/jumping/retrieving etc etc which means no obedience or rally or anything grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

 

Have you tried Nosework? Quick search brought up this site http://www.facebook.com/AustralianCanineSports

I didn't look past this one site, but it would be worth perusing to see if there are any classes near you. And it's something you can do on your own pretty easily from a book.

 

I took my then 14 yr old, arthritic and achy Shoshone to a nosework class and she loved it. She took her last class a few weeks before we had to let her go at age 15. It's very easy physically on both dog and handler, and does wonders for the dog's spirits. You don't need a lot of equipment, and you can basically do this sport anywhere that you can take a dog on-lead.

 

I hope she feels better soon, though 'soon' might be a relative term. Good luck!

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I haven't tried nosework but she isn't really into food rewards either which is another one of the problems and yes that includes whether she is fed or not. She disengages quickly when I use food and will grab the nearest twig/stick/item of clothing and try and initiate a tug came or a fetch game. If I don't throw it she just throws whatever it is at me, backs off half a dozen paces then barks or pounces on the whatever it is again.

 

She has gone half way across the oval to grab me a "twig" to play with when I have taken food to reward her with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frigging dog - last two evenings she has come up lame on her right shoulder again :(. I haven't really changed anything about what she is doing although I did set up a jump grid of 5 x 200mm height jumps and she did 6 repetitions of that three nights ago. Was fine that evening though and no issues the next day it was only at bedtime that I noticed she was limping.

 

Have taken it relatively easy with her today and she was limping again tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can do K9 Nosework with a favorite toy instead of food. It's a bit harder at some stages but many do use toys instead. :) Perhaps Kenzie might benefit from seeing a specialist at a veterinary college? They are able to figure out the more uncommon issues. I hope he feels better soon!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really feel for you, not knowing just what the problem is and not being able to look at a treatment program and positive prognosis.

 

One thing that was brought out to me yet again at Celt's therapy visit today is that when there is a "problem" in one place in the body, there is often a "problem" that shows up somewhere else in the body as the animal (or person) compensates for one issue by using another part of the body in a manner different from normal usage to make up for the lack of normal ability in the injured/affected area. Compensation results in changes/stresses in an otherwise healthy limb or joint due to "making up for" limitations in the originally changed/stressed/injured limb or joint.

 

So, my friend's dog, Anya, was having issues with her left front leg - because it was compensating for a 20% ACL tear, surgery, and recovery in her right hind leg. That is why the therapist is so insistent on treating "the whole dog" when it's just been one joint of one limb that had an injury/surgery.

 

Would there be someone who might do some long-distance evaluation - maybe videos of Kenzie that a therapist or dog sports specialist might be willing to view and offer an opinion?

 

Sadly, there are just some cases where there will never be a firm diagnosis but at least if you could get a program of therapy (or even a program of "don't do this") maybe you could reduce further or increasing problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Crawford - we are out of specialists to go and see. The only remaining ones in the state are apparently leaving shortly to head back to the US :( and the surgeon that did Kenz's patella surgery is taking over some of the uni stuff.

 

Sue R = yep I know that is why she has had both physio/chiro/acupuncture treatment throughout the last 2 years. Her physio is away until late October so at the moment we are kind of between a rock and a hard place. Although she wasn't keen to do much more until Kenz had further xrays :(.

 

The problem I am having at the moment is the randomness and why some activities are fine for days on end then all of a sudden they cause a problem. The only real thing I added was the jumping but there was no cause and effect because the increased lameness happened the following evening. If I could work out what was triggering the problem I could just avoid doing that - well maybe at least try to :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now one thing I wonder about the lameness following the next evening - when our son was hurt (hit by a motorcycle) the doctors told us that the first 48 hours were crucial as swelling peaks at about 48 hours. Are you possibly seeing this sort of time "delay" with joint inflammation or swelling taking up to two days to peak?

 

Just a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure Sue R I guess its possible. I always thought you would expect an increase in stiffness/soreness that evening or the following morning. In the early days of her shoulder she would wake up stiff after a nap after whatever activity had bothered it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The problem I am having at the moment is the randomness and why some activities are fine for days on end then all of a sudden they cause a problem. The only real thing I added was the jumping but there was no cause and effect because the increased lameness happened the following evening. If I could work out what was triggering the problem I could just avoid doing that - well maybe at least try to :)

 

It does sound like there may be a cause and effect as I am not sure that all injuries/lameness issues show up immediately. The time delay can make identifying the cause more difficult.

 

Hmmm, I just noticed that Sue wrote pretty much the same thing.

 

Jovi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my thoughts:

 

As Sue said, there could be a cause and effect going on?

 

The shoulder problem could be tendonitis or bone spur or both. My eldest borderjack has bicipital tendonitis, a bone spur and some arthritis in his right shoulder. We had a steroid injection done followed by more crate rest and it really helped. He still comes up stiff at times but some of that is him not being in the shape he once was. We are working it but at a slower pace. This was from an injury a couple years ago and a couple times a year it flares up. Back in May after playing disc it flared horribly because he landed incorrectly. After a week of rest there was not much difference and the regular even said go to the ortho so we did. He did the xrays and injection and said a second may be needed. Riot can no longer play disc but flyball is ok. Weird but we are going with it. I will give him the next 2 tourneys and if he is still not running correctly, he will go back to the ortho to see what else can be done. He basically had almost 3 months of crate rest followed by swimming a couple days a week for a month. It was only in late August that he started playing ball again and doing flyball.

 

I guess I am suggesting to look at having a steroid injection in the tendon followed by crate rest for a month and then very low impact exercises for a month. If that doesn't help fully, have a second shot done followed by the crate rest and low impact exercise for a month each.

 

Riot is still not 100% but we were told the bone spur could be causing him to have lost some of his shoulder mobility and that he may never regain full use.

 

If we go back to the ortho vet in Jan, I will be asking if doing flyball will actually make him worse and whether he should be retired or not. He is 8 yrs old. If they think surgery could possibly fix the shoulder, we will look into that as well.

 

Needless to say, I can understand the frustration. You just never know what will actually cause the limp to come back as something you have done many times does nothing and then one day it does.

 

For the knee have the vets checked whether the CCL and/or the meniscus is in tact?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The shoulder was diagnosed as probable biceps tendonitis about this time last year. Its been treated - she had 2 course PRP injection series. She has been rehabbed through the shoulder.

 

Then of course was crate rested for a couple of months post surgery for her patella surgery so its had plenty of rest (and rehab).

 

Just frustrating that it flared up again :(.

 

Yep the vets have certainly checked that her CCL is still intact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...