So whos feeding what?

[juliepoudrier]

^^That's been my experience too, even for the retirees who aren't real active anymore.

 

I know I've made the same comments about the origins of the border collie and what sorts of foods they were developed on as Sue noted. So of course I agree with that. I have nothing against feeding raw or grain-free, but I don't think it's always the best choice for all individuals in a breed that very likely wasn't developed on that sort of food.

 

J.

[Tiga's_mom]

Tiga eats Royal Canin Hypoallergenic formula from the vet. He's been on it for years. Seems to be the only one he can tolerate and believe me we've tried lots! He's allergic to a lot of things, including corn, peas and tomato pumice which seems to be in almost all foods.

 

We've got little Annie girl on Fromm puppy formula. She seems to like it a lot but it's only been less then a week so I don't really know how she'll do.

[Maralynn]

Dang... We'll see how this bag goes then I'll decided if I'll continue or not. Is it just their rabbit? Or are all their meat sources?

 

Not sure about the rest of their meat - this is all the website has to say about that

Nature's Variety is committed to using high quality, safe ingredients from government-inspected facilities. Our natural ingredients are continuously inspected for quality and tested for analytical compliance before being accepted at our facilities.

 

And the part about the rabbit

At Nature's Variety, our nutritional philosophy is to source the highest quality, safest, and most nutritious ingredients in the world. We look for our ingredients domestically first. In the case of rabbit meat, we've found that the best supply of high quality, human grade rabbit is found in China. Therefore, we are currently sourcing rabbit meat specifically for our raw and canned rabbit diets from a trusted supplier in China. To help ensure that our strict quality and safety standards are rigorously enforced, this rabbit meat is regularly inspected and monitored by the PhD food scientist we have on staff. Additionally, members of the Nature’s Variety leadership team have personally visited and inspected the facility in China. We also employ extra testing (at an independent lab in the United States) to ensure that the rabbit is nothing short of our strictest standards for quality and nutrition.

 

Found it at -

Nature's Variety FAQ

[D'Elle]

For what it's worth, if I feed my working dogs a grain free it's all I can do to keep weight on them, and even moreso when they're getting a lot of work. On the occasion that I feed a grain free I find myself supplementing with oatmeal... which sort of defeats the purpose.

 

 

Now, that is very interesting, because I realized about a month ago that Jester had lost weight. Popped him on a scale and sure enough he's down by 7 to 8 pounds. Too thin. I concluded that it was because he is now spending at least an hour a day circling the cat (to the cat's delight, so why not), and getting more exercise. So I have fed him more and added more things to his meals. But now I wonder if it is caused by the grain free? Think I will go back to giving Jester a kibble with grain and see how he does on that, keeping Kit on the grain-free. Fortunately, Kelso seems to be able to thrive on anything.

 

Thanks, Sue R., for your reply. I am wary of Purina, although perhaps groundlessly. I used to feed Kirkland Super Premium lamb and rice......wonder if I should go back to that (but it's made at Diamond plant), or try something else that is perhaps better.....

It is an on-going issue for me, wanting to give them the very best I can afford, and not having extra money.

 

D'Elle

[Maralynn]

At this point in time I think I'd go with Purina over Diamond. The salmonella didn't bother me too much but reading the reports of what the FDA found at the plant have left me a bit dubious about the company. I don't think Purina has the greatest food (the premium food looks ok but is over priced imo) but they haven't had the recall issues that so many others have had.

[Chesney's Girl]

I wonder if they forgot to list the kibble that has rabbit in it on that FAQs or if it comes from somewhere else.

 

Thanks for the info though Maralynn

[Mark Billadeau]

At this point in time I think I'd go with Purina over Diamond. The salmonella didn't bother me too much but reading the reports of what the FDA found at the plant have left me a bit dubious about the company. I don't think Purina has the greatest food (the premium food looks ok but is over priced imo) but they haven't had the recall issues that so many others have had.

While Diamond's manufacturing employees "repairs" of equipment to keep the lines running yielded surfaces which could not be cleaned (duct tape and cardboard), the FDA tests of ingredients and surfaces did not show salmonella. At this point I've not seen FDA conclusions (or guesses) on how the salmonella got into the finished bagged food.

 

Now that the FDA has initiated salmonella surveillance of pet food I will not be surprised if other pet foods end up being recalled.

 

We were forced to move away from Diamond Naturals while the SC plant was down and the food we switch to (similar ingredients) was not maintaining weight on our dogs. Now we're back on Diamond Naturals.

[juliepoudrier]

(duct tape and cardboard

You gotta give them credit for realizing what us shoestring farmers have known forever: duct tape can fix a lot of stuff! (Just not manufacturing lines that require cleaning, though I suspect the duct tape would have held up to that even as the cardboard wouldn't).

 

And I agree with you Mark; I suspect that regular surveillance will turn up some real surprises. Where raw meat is used, pathogens will exist.

 

J.

[Carson Crazies]

You gotta give them credit for realizing what us shoestring farmers have known forever: duct tape can fix a lot of stuff! (Just not manufacturing lines that require cleaning, though I suspect the duct tape would have held up to that even as the cardboard wouldn't).

 

Maybe we should clue them in on baling twine too, to complete their arsenal.

[juliepoudrier]

Maybe we should clue them in on baling twine too, to complete their arsenal.

Exactly. Add in some zip ties, and they're set for life!

 

J.

[Maralynn]

I guess a big thing that is bugging me is the idea that the company proudly touts "151 safety checks" on their dog food bags yet somehow there is a major source of salmonella somewhere along the line. You'd think that with all those safety checks they'd have thought about checking for salmonella.

 

I've been involved with commercial food prep for several years now. I guess to me it's a no brainer that you don't cobble together fixes using an uncleanable surface where food safety is involved. Duct tape, zip ties and bailing twine are for fences and dog crates :D Well, I guess you could use zip ties on a food production line just fine as they're not porous you can sanitize them

 

It is going to be interesting to see who else pops up with salmonella.

[Mark Billadeau]

I guess a big thing that is bugging me is the idea that the company proudly touts "151 safety checks" on their dog food bags yet somehow there is a major source of salmonella somewhere along the line. You'd think that with all those safety checks they'd have thought about checking for salmonella.

The FDA has not mandated salmonella testing of pet food, but they are monitoring pet foods and will issue recalls if it is found. This is new for public safety (causing human illness). From what I've read the standard salmonella test takes several days to run. I can see why companies wouldn't want to do it until they were required, since this would mean their product would be on hold until the tests were completed. The FDA also states that initial tests of finished pet foods could be negative for salmonella and later tests could be positive ("bugs" continue to grow and multiply).

 

 

I suspect the salmonella contamination occurred via the enrobing process (spraying fat onto extruded kibble) because a new batch of fat was not held long enough at the enrobing temeprature to kill all of the salmonella; the salmonella was eventially killed off after a longer time in the equipment at the enrobing temperatures.

[Rua]

I too have noticed that weight was dropping off on our active girls. While our trainer wants to keep our girls slim to minimize injury, we noticed that their speed and stamina has decreased as well as their weight on the grain free diet.

 

Our local co-op has started selling Victor so I have gotten a bag of the performance plus to see how that works. Price was shockingly cheaper as well. Guess we shall see what's what. Hopefully it will help us get them back to being the bouncy bc's. Bell and our old gall will stay on grain free tho..our vet thinks old lass might have food allergies and Bell has to stay slim to help with her joints.:-)

[juliepoudrier]

I've been involved with commercial food prep for several years now. I guess to me it's a no brainer that you don't cobble together fixes using an uncleanable surface where food safety is involved. Duct tape, zip ties and bailing twine are for fences and dog crates :D Well, I guess you could use zip ties on a food production line just fine as they're not porous you can sanitize them

Humans are, well, human. The listeria problem with cataloupes that killed several elderly and immune-compromised people was the result of the humans cobbling together their production line in a way that prevented proper sanitizing of the cantaloupes. Had people not sickened and died, no one would have known that the human fixes to the production process created the potential for pathogens on the produce. I imagine this is in no way an isolated incident. People "get away" with it because they get lucky and no one gets sick as a result of their fixes. Until someone does get sick....

 

J.

[Gideon's girl]

I've used NutriSource a lot in the past and will use it again in the future. It's a nice food made by a small company, Tuffy. They have several flavors, and grain free and grain inclusive lines.

[Maralynn]

I stopped by a local family run feed store today since they had recently put up a NutriSource banner. Want to see if they carried the grain free variety and what the price was. I've been using Orijen, but it's pricey...

 

Lo and behold, they recently started carrying Victor dog food. A bag of the regular grain free was $39/30# and performance grain free was $41/30#. I got a bag of one and a couple samples of the other. Hope my dogs do well on this!

[Lindsaloo]

I had been feeding TOTW up until a couple weeks ago when I bought a new bag at Tractor Supply here. Ziggy has been on this exact formula for the past 8 months or so, but with this last bag he developed diarrhea and vomiting. After that we decided to go from supplementing with raw to making that his complete diet.

[MommaLove]

My dogs are raw-fed, for over a year now. I don't think I'll ever go back to commercial foods.

[borderlicious]

My dog is a garbage disposal. Prey-model raw, taste of the wild and various treats and food scraps that I give her throughout the day. She'll eat grains, she'll eat vegetables, she'll eat cooked or raw meat, bones, fruit... Iron stomach.

[ChoseTheNose]

When we adopted Patch a month ago, the shelter recommended (and sold there) Blue Buffalo Adult chicken and rice so that's what we've been giving him. He absolutely loves it but we are now noticing that he is having some soft stools on occasion. It's not every time but sometimes. He usually poops 3 times a day now (after breakfast, usually sometime in the afternoon, and then after dinner). I did a little browsing online and have read others saying that Blue Buffalo can give loose stools. Does anyone know anything about this? We're open to transitioning him to another food if that's the case although trying to choose another one is mind-boggling. I know that every dog can react differently to every food so what works for one won't work for another. We also started giving him Beggin Strips for treats and I'm wondering if that could do it as well...

[Sue R]

I would not give Beggin Strips for treats. There's really little to nothing in them that is worth giving your dog and there are a number of things that are artifial (color, flavor). Use something that is nutritious and healthy for treats like bits of chicken, string cheese (my favorite), Zukes, Plato, or other quality treats (many of these can be cut up into tiny pieces as a tiny taste is just as appealing to a dog as a mouthful). And avoid any chicken jerky products as those are almost invariably from China (there are some that are made in the USA and they would be good as larger, chew-it-up treats rather than training treats, but they are pricey).

 

A better chew treat (once your dog is accustomed to it) might be a raw chicken neck, pork or lamb or beef neckbone, or similar item that not only offers nutrition but also great teeth-cleaning properties, and plenty of happy chewing.

 

I have found that not one food fits all - what is right for one dog may just not give good results (coat, energy, stools) for another dog. You may have to try a few before you find what is right for your dog (and your pocketbook).

 

I know people who get very good results with Diamond Naturals (and I used to feed that very happily except that my dogs experienced loose stools more than I liked). I feed Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken and Rice - it's pricey, it's probably yuppie food for dogs, but I like how their digestive systems operate with it. If and when they get "loose" because I've given them something different or upsetting (too much of something that's good but a bit rich, for instance), they get right back to normal very quickly - unlike my experience with the Diamond Naturals (it took a couple of days sometimes or maybe even a fast for a meal if they got upset tummies over something out of the ordinary).

 

I often read here that one person's dog (or dogs) does very well on Food A, and someone else's dog (or dogs) are loose on Food A but do well on Food B, that the first person's dog did not do well on. These dogs can be quite individual and so you may just have to experiment to see what works for your dog.

 

I think some working lines may also thrive on "poorer" diets rather than on "richer" diets as many shepherds' dogs lived for generations on grain-based diets (either home-cooked or commercial) supplemented with scraps and occasional meat from cull animals or scraps from home-dressed game or meat, as shepherds were not in a position to feed pricey diets to their dogs.

 

Read the labels, read some topics here concerning feeding (there are many and there are advocates for many different brands or foods, including different raw diets), and try your dog on something that seems to have merit - if it doesn't work, try something else.

 

Best wishes!

[ChoseTheNose]

I would not give Beggin Strips for treats. There's really little to nothing in them that is worth giving your dog and there are a number of things that are artifial (color, flavor). Use something that is nutritious and healthy for treats like bits of chicken, string cheese (my favorite), Zukes, Plato, or other quality treats (many of these can be cut up into tiny pieces as a tiny taste is just as appealing to a dog as a mouthful). And avoid any chicken jerky products as those are almost invariably from China (there are some that are made in the USA and they would be good as larger, chew-it-up treats rather than training treats, but they are pricey).

 

Thanks, Sue! I definitely agree about the Beggin Strips. We try and buy very good quality treats for Patch but happened to pick up a package of Beggin Strips one day and so that's a new treat that he just started eating. I was just trying to think of anything new that he's had in the last week or so. I have a feeling it may be the food, though. We do give him little bits of string cheese which he absolutely adores as well. It's been a long time since I've been in "dog world". I had a beautiful purebred German Shepherd for many years and after she died it took me a long time to open up my heart to another animal. I finally got a cat which is the love of my life and I've had him for 11 years. Dealing and shopping for dog food is all new to me again as there are many different things on the market nowadays. Thanks again for your reply!

[BillieNZ]

Elsie (BC x) gets 50/50 raw/kibble. We tried orijen but that gave her runs, acana gave soft poop too... Limited in our kibble range over here, so she is on pro plan now and doing fantastically. For raw she gets some prepackaged (K9 natural), and some things I buy from butchers (chicken necks/frames/hearts/livers, rabbit mince, venison bones and beef offal and bones). Lamb and pork can make her have pretty stinky farts, so we tend to avoid it for the most part. We're vegetarians at my house, so don't have a big freezer to store loads of meat, it's on my to-do list!

[ChoseTheNose]

Elsie (BC x) gets 50/50 raw/kibble. We tried orijen but that gave her runs, acana gave soft poop too... Limited in our kibble range over here, so she is on pro plan now and doing fantastically.

 

Thanks, Billie, this is good to know. Pro Plan is Purina, correct?

[ChoseTheNose]

Elsie (BC x) gets 50/50 raw/kibble. We tried orijen but that gave her runs, acana gave soft poop too... Limited in our kibble range over here, so she is on pro plan now and doing fantastically.

 

Also, which Pro Plan are you using? Maybe I should try the lamb and rice? I'm reading that some dogs don't do well with the chicken flavor (which is what he's having now with the Blue Buffalo).