Border collies & children

[puppytoes]

I have been a dog owner for many years and my first dog had been a border collie/lab cross and i fell in love with having a really smart dog. I got my first full bred border collie 4 years ago. At the time i did not have children but knew that i was going to want them at some point. I read all of the disclaimers about how border collies are not good with kids, that they can be herdy, nippy etc. I read that they needed a lot of time and energy and families often found it too much. I could not imagine being one of those people.

 

I worked really hard to socialize my pup and although he would never be a dog park dog i could take him pretty much anywhere. Enter my son. After disstressing Orbit for several months with his crying, he learned to clutch fur. My son is now 2 1/2 and absolutely loves our dog. The first thing he says when he wakes up is "Orby". Orbit keeps his distance. I can tell he considers him part of the family, is protective of him but is not ready to trust my son's enthusiasm. Strange children he simply avoids.I have found that at home i can keep everyone happy. We are an active household so Orbit still gets a good amount of off-leash walking time. The part that i did not really consider is that while Orbit is good with my kids, he does not enjoy them the way that some dogs do. When we are out we often come across labs or goldens and they just melt when my son hugs them. I feel a bit guilty that i force my dog to tolerate the kids (he does have places to go and get away but he usually chooses to stay close by and stealthly avoid the fly-by hug). As my kids get older they will be more understanding of Orbits needs and better about to use the chuck-it which will go a long way towards redefining their relationship, But they will also be involved in sports and we will go and watch. While my first inclination would be to take Orbit, we may end up leaving him at home because that environment causes him undo stress (too many kids and other dogs getting all up in his business).

 

I guess my reason for this post is to say that even though there is a lot of info out there about why border collies do not make good family pets, I still didn't really get it. I feel guilty sometimes that my border collie has had to give up his front seat in out lives and put up with kids which may not have been his first choice. I believe that he is a very happy dog and has a great life but i get now what the border collie folks meant by not ideal family pets. It always seemed like it was because the people who had the dogs were not willing to spend the time they needed to with them but i get now that these dogs in their psyche just find small children confusing.

 

If i had to do it all again would i do it differently? I don't know. I love Orbit dearly and i think he is very happy with us. We adopted him as a pup from rural idaho so i am not sure what his alternative would have been. But i can definately see how having a lab with kids makes more sense (but then you have to have the lab too).

[Todd's Mom]

I think it has more to do with how the dogs are raised than with them being border collies. I personally have 8 border collies. 7 of them have been around kids most of their lives. The oldest one, who is 12, lived with a single woman prior to entering our home. He LOVES children more than anything in life besides maybe a tennis ball. Of the other 7, one came to our home at the age of 7 months and he also melts at the sight of our own children and strange children as well. None of them have been allowed to nip each other or children through any part of their lives in play or herding, and that seems to help. But even with strange children they get all squirrely and crazy. Most of them choose to sleep with the kids at night or lounge with them during the day. They will play with them at any time, but they're just as happy to spend their "kid" time snuggling as playing. I think it's because in their cases, the kids were always here first. The kids range in age from 13 to 6 and the dogs from 12 to 1. Our kids have been raised around dogs their whole lives as well, and they are taught to respect a dog in ways that I don't think a lot of people teach their children. If the dog walks away, leave it. There is/was absolutely no fur, ear, or tail pulling, even as toddlers it wasn't allowed. They never run up to a strange dog, or even walk up to it without first asking the owner if they can do so. I guess I'm lucky in the regard that I have always been a dog lover and they were dropped into that role as well. Though we do have a cat lover in the family...sigh.

[Gloria Atwater]

And sometimes it just depends on the dog. I got my old Jesse when he was 2 years old, as a rescue, and he came from a non-child household. Yet he ADORES kids of all ages. My first BC was born into a household with small children and she adored all kids until the day she died.

 

But my current two, though they were very well socialized by children until 8 weeks old, simply have no use for them. Gael worries about them and Nick just kind of stays away, unless one throws a ball.

 

Some just don't have the temperament for kids, is all. But it sounds like Orbit is doing pretty well. At least he's loved and gets to *keep* his home.

 

~ Gloria

[mbc1963]

My dog had a rough start for two years (street dog as far as I can figure out), and integrating him into this world was hard. Fear, reactivity. It took a very long time for him to just relax about the existence of strange people and dogs. Seven years in, he looks fairly normal, and is pretty dependable to act calm in most situations, though he can still react if someone moves too quickly or closes him in.

 

I'm not sure Buddy had ever seen a baby when I got him - he used to bark at them. But walking in local parks, he came to understand that strollers contained locked-in mini-humans who very frequently dropped food. So, he learned to like babies and toddlers in that context. And now, he's actually really tolerant of little ones - far more reliable with them than with other humans. Normal-sized person gets in his face, he backs away; toddler gets in his face, he gives kisses.

 

So... I'd say it depends on the dog, how he's raised, and also on some strange fluke of temperament.

 

Mary

[mjk05]

I think it must depend on the dogs. I was expecting all sorts of problems with my dogs and my kids, and haven't had any yet (touch wood!)- kids are now 5yo and 2yo, so babyhoods are almost over.

 

None of our house dogs seem to have an issue with babies or our small kids, and in fact they mostly seem to really like them. The dog I was most worried about (a bit neurotic, not a fan of strange people, obsessed with me, slept on the bed) seemed to instantly recognise our children (especially the eldest) as part of me, and he'll follow them around like a nanny, lying down next to them if they stop to do something.

 

The biggest issue we currently have with the kids and dogs is the dogs that are too enthusiastic with greetings or play, and knock small kids over, and one bitch who guards the kids against our other dogs. I haven't cracked down on this much because it's fairly subtle (body blocking etc) and has actually been handy to stop boisterous pups jumping into the pram etc, but in retrospect I think this was a mistake and I should have stopped it earlier.

 

We have had our most recent puppy chasing and nipping at the kids when they run, but the kids seem to have largely dealt with this themselves and now she's 6 months she seems to have grown out of it.

 

The other problem we've had has been with old dogs being hurt by the kids, and my eldest dog (a badly arthritic cattle dog) was wary of the baby when he started toddling.

 

In my own experience, for what that's worth, some border collies are good with kids, some aren't. I'm sorry your dog hasn't taken to family life as you'd hoped, but kids grow quickly, and hopefully as you said, once they're old enough to engage with the dog in his favourite activities, they'll become good friends.

[Beach BCs]

I have two BCs with very different views on children:

Georgia came to me at about a year old, more feral than not, just had a really rough go that first year of life.

Texas came to me at four months old, I took him everywhere, lots of classes & socialization.

Can you guess which one does better with children?

Georgia loves children! They can poke and prod and pull and she is just happy happy happy. They throw her ball, pet her, hug her, run around with her. It's all good. Kids can do no wrong in her book. (I would still never leave her unattended with children.) Not much phases her.

Texas is not a fan of children. He has a very large personal space bubble and those odd little humans are a danger to it. They sound scary and move suspiciously. Even one child who doesn't behave calmly is too much for him. There are alot of kids in my neighborhood. They all know and like my dogs and know how to approach us, Tex especially. But kids being kids, sometimes they forget. One night a little girl ran up to us and hugged Tex. Tex flew back terrified. We had a little talk about how scary hugs can be for Tex and a reminder of how to be with Tex; approach calmly, talk quietly and pet softly.

 

I think some dogs like kids and some dogs, not so much.

[Maralynn]

I would never recommend a BC to a family with children because I know that most people are not prepared for a higher maintenance dog and some can be quirky with kids. That said, mine have always been around children and have done fine.

 

Missy adored babies. She just lay there and watch them. Then when they became toddlers and could play chase games and throw the ball that was even better. She was always pretty gentle around little kids too.

 

Kipp is indifferent to kids (that's his nature around most people). But he'll happily take treats from them/play ball with them. I think that if he lived in a house with a toddler that he'd learn to love the them due to their roll as a treat dispenser...

 

Kenzi loves, loves, loves anyone and everyone. But she's also very excited/hyper around kids and some kids find it a bit unnerving. Though my 2.5 y/o daredevil niece adores her

[TEC]

If i had to do it all again would i do it differently? I don't know. I love Orbit dearly and i think he is very happy with us. We adopted him as a pup from rural idaho so i am not sure what his alternative would have been. But i can definately see how having a lab with kids makes more sense (but then you have to have the lab too).

 

Putting children into the equation after a dog has become accustomed to a certain environment can be difficult, but not impossible. It's clear you love your children and Orbit. Your plan of not exposing Orbit to stressful situations is no doubt a good idea for the time being.

 

Do you get the Labradors' owners' OK prior to your child hugging them? Not all dogs, even friendly looking ones, like up-close and personal contact from strangers, albeit a child. I suggest using extreme caution around any dog that is not a completely known quantity, especially when children are exploring the world in their own way.

 

It may be that you will always have to exercise wise discretion about placing Orbit in a new situation, one in which you don't know how he/she will react. You can get Orbit to accept higher levels of excitement/change through desensitization and/or counter-conditioning training. A qualified experienced instructor with the proper credentials is important. You probably have a busy life, yet if reasonably possible (most medium to large cities will have resources), I encourage such training. The process is gradual, but a few classes give an owner the information to follow-through with more on-her/his-own training, and provides knowledge to help a person become an educated handler.

 

Best wishes. Look into the resources available. Training can give you more peace of mind about children, their activities, and Orbit. -- Kind regards, TEC

[simba]

Do you get the Labradors' owners' OK prior to your child hugging them? Not all dog's, even friendly looking ones, like up-close and personal contact from strangers, albeit a child. I suggest using extreme caution around any dog that is not a completely known quantity, especially when children are exploring the world in their own way.

 

My labrador would put up with kids hugging her, and I know people say how much she loves kids... no. She tolerates them, stands there, wags her tail passively, puts up with everything and anything, and then tries to get out of the situation quietly.

 

About the only border collie I knew fairly well hated kids. Once they got to a certain size, she suddenly liked them (well, didn't try to savage them- you could walk by her without fearing for your life).

[rufftie]

the hugging stories reminded me of another dog story, not bc tho. many years ago, about '97 or '98, our family was looking for a new dog. something mix breed, adult and short haired. i saw an add for a 2 yr. old doberman mix about 45 min away. my daughter, then about 8 went with me to check out the dog. the owners were older, lived on a farm and thought the dog was way too much for them. they kept her in a horse stall because no matter how they chained her, and i do mean chain, she escaped and went on a tear. so when we get there they let the girl out of the stall, and if you didn't know she was mixed with german shepard, you'd swear she was straight dobie. so anyway, off the dog goes out into the hay field. it took off and ran out on the 100 acre field, did a lap, came by to say hi, and took off for another lap. by the 3 rd lap my daughter grabed the dog and hugged her around the neck. the dobe lied down, rolled over and started licking her. all i could say was we'll take her. zeno, as she was renamed, was a fabulous dog. loved all children and never ran off again. in fact one her greatest pleasures was going horseback riding with us. she and our other dog would ride trail with us, never running off and never bothering another dog or livestock.