Sue R Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 That's a good reminder, Diane, about the use of crates when someone has workers in, or grandchildren, etc. It means the dog won't be getting in someone's way, or getting out inadvertantly. When we expect company or a delivery or a worker, the dogs are crated. Everyone is safe, and I mean everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I have done both: dog loose in the back of my SUV and (usually) dog in crate in the back of my SUV. I prefer the crate for safety's sake - both for the safety of the dog and the safety of my car. Usually, Torque is very good in the car, either crated or loose (once he was about 3 yrs old), but there is always the exception: I was at an agility trial this past fall - outside trial, outside crating. The weather was beautiful - about 65 degrees. I had left Torque in the crate (in the car) with the hatchback open for a while (45-60 minutes?) before his last run. When I went to get him, he looked calm, but he had destroyed his crate pad. Never before. What gives? I looked around and realized that the back of the car faced an outside basketball court which was about the length of a football field away. Someone had been bouncing the ball and shooting baskets, and it had just been too much for my guy. I was so glad he was crated and not loose in the car!!! Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Rae Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Alright, I have a question about crating then. Say you get a pup/dog and they don't like the crate, what do you do when you need to confine them while you're still crate training them? Also, I'm having the most difficult time convincing my father of the benefits of crate training. He's one of those who thinks its cruel especially when we have a perfectly fine and fenced yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Depending on the dog, I'd make the crate a nice place to be. With my pup, she always gets treats when she goes in her crate. You can give a dog stuffed kongs, bones, or other things to occupy them. With a young dog, I'll usually play with it a while before crating so the pup will naturally be ready for a nap. If the pup fusses and you know it doesn't need to go out, then you just ignore it. It can be noisy at first, but if you respond to the noise, you're reinforcing the behavior. And like everything else you teach a dog, consistency is of paramount importance. It might be easier to give you advice if you describe what happens when you put the dog in the crate. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Rae Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Depending on the dog, I'd make the crate a nice place to be. With my pup, she always gets treats when she goes in her crate. You can give a dog stuffed kongs, bones, or other things to occupy them. With a young dog, I'll usually play with it a while before crating so the pup will naturally be ready for a nap. If the pup fusses and you know it doesn't need to go out, then you just ignore it. It can be noisy at first, but if you respond to the noise, you're reinforcing the behavior. And like everything else you teach a dog, consistency is of paramount importance. It might be easier to give you advice if you describe what happens when you put the dog in the crate. J. Oh there was no specific occurrence (yet) as I don't have a dog yet, I'm just curious about /where or how/ to contain a dog that panics (frantic chewing/clawing, excessive crying) when crated but you need to contain them for one reason or another. It's not important, I'm just a curious person about ways to handle a situation like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I guess the strongest argument to give your dad is that dogs left out in the yard are vulnerable to theft or getting out/lost and a dog that is new to you isn't one you want to leave loose in the house for fear of something important/expensive being damaged. As others have noted in this thread, crates don't have to be permanent, and in the beginning if you can associate the crate with good things in the dog's mind (meals in the crate, for example), then it shouldn't be too traumatic. Also you can put the crate in a part of the house where the dog can see/hear the humans so the crate doesn't mean being completely shut off from everything. I doubt there are many dogs who would automatically panic when shut in a crate. I have 10 dogs. Four or five of them are crated when I leave; the rest are loose. Of those that are crated, for some it's for their own safety (as noted earlier) or because they're destructive. The pup is crated. Sometimes Kat is crated because Twist will pick on her. I could achieve the same thing by gating Kat into an area (and Twist out of it). Jill is in an X-pen whenever she's in the house simply because I have hardwood floors, which cause her to panic. She 15 1/2 with bad hips and about a year ago, she hurt her back pretty badly trying to get up (I had runners all over the place, but invariably she'd lie down off the runner or get off the runner and then panic and fall). Per the advice of my holistic/rehab vet, we decided that it was safest for her to be confined when she's in the house. If she can't wander at will on the hardwood floors, then she's unlikely to fall and hurt herself. There are all sorts of reasons why it makes sense for a dog to learn to be confined. I'm glad that Jill's original owner crate trained her because it made this latest transition much easier for her. And while my sentimental side might say that she'd be happier choosing where to go in the house, the practical side--the side that witnessed the silent screams/squeaks and her body bent in a C shape from the pain last March when she wrenched her back--knows that keeping her in the X-pen where she can't fall and hurt herself is kinder to her than risking putting her through that sort of pain again. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I have not had any issue with acclimating a dog to a crate with any of my adult dogs or fosters or a puppy. I place crates in the corner of occupied rooms so the dogs are not isolated but are in a quiet area. I feed the dog or puppy in the crate. I spend time teaching the dog to "kennel up" using a reward for running in, and they will run to their crates from anywhere in the house. Dogs who are not destructive get nice cushy beds in their crates. I don't let a dog out for crying (although I will address a dog who is really panicked but thats only happened once or twice), although I will talk to a dog crying in his crate and make a point of rewarding calm behavior. Dogs almost always get a cookie for kenneling up. At my house if you start doing activities that make them think you are leaving they will run to their crates and wait expectantly, they also do this if I move towards the dog cookie jar. then get moved out into the main rooms as they get older (I think this helps prevent separation anxiety) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Apparently, some people haven't heard of leashes either. I was on a BIKE trail today and got mobbed by a pack of 6 out of control dogs. They swarmed me, biting at my tires and jumping the dog I had with me (who was attached to my bike with a WalkyDog bike leash). I had words with the owner and tried to continue on my way, but he didn't have any leashes and I was mobbed and knocked over again when his dogs chased me. I am starting to understand why people keep self defense tools in their packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 We did have one foster that had awful panic attacks in the crate, even in our bedroom at night he would whine and whimper. As we had no idea about him we initially we kept him behind a gate in the kitchen when we were not home, but luckily for all involved we quickly realized that he was the most trustworthy 9 month old dog ever, especially as he figured out how to get over the gate. I am sure with time, lots of time I could have persuaded him that a crate was a nice place, but with a short term foster it was hard. Truthfully I have no idea what we would have done if he had been a chewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex BC Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 In our house, they're plant holders. DH finally went out and bought some nice looking wood, routered the edges, stained and poly'd them to set them on top for the plants to sit on. Now all 3 crates have the same looking wood. Yep, part of the decor. Good idea...our crate is an end table next to the couch in the family room!. I should add a wood top as well since you have to be careful where you set down your drink . This is where the crate has been since Dex was a pup as it was close to the kitchen and the back door. We tried to move it once and he was not happy with the new location so it went back beside the couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Good idea...our crate is an end table next to the couch in the family room!. I should add a wood top as well since you have to be careful where you set down your drink . This is where the crate has been since Dex was a pup as it was close to the kitchen and the back door. We tried to move it once and he was not happy with the new location so it went back beside the couch. Actually, they make wooden dog crate covers. They are a wee bit too expensive for us so DH made a 'top' for our crates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex BC Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Actually, they make wooden dog crate covers. They are a wee bit too expensive for us so DH made a 'top' for our crates. Dang!....and I thought we were on to something. Seems whenever there is a good idea for something someone else has already invented it! Looks like Cherry from the photo?...which would make it pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamgnome Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 The discussion should take into account the fact that crates aren't always allowed. In Sweden (where I am), crates are only allowed in transport, at shows or in hunting - and even then, there are fairly strict regulations on how long you are allowed to keep the dog in the crate. This makes some training a little bit difficult, e.g. housebreaking. As pee-wee-pads are basically unheard of here, we do a great deal of sprinting outside and use a lot of soap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex BC Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 The discussion should take into account the fact that crates aren't always allowed. In Sweden (where I am), crates are only allowed in transport, at shows or in hunting - and even then, there are fairly strict regulations on how long you are allowed to keep the dog in the crate. This makes some training a little bit difficult, e.g. housebreaking. As pee-wee-pads are basically unheard of here, we do a great deal of sprinting outside and use a lot of soap Must be alot of destroyed houses in Sweden!....What do people do when they go to work? (Doggie daycares must do very well). I'm not sure how you would enforce such regulations either?. Neighbors spying and reporting you if your dog was in it's crate a little longer than allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Was just thinking today- would there be risks from the increase in sedentary time associated with crates? How 'quiet' is a dog in a crate left for the day: do they stand up and turn around a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Simba, The presumed risk would be predicated on the assumption that a dog left loose in the house is more active than a crated dog. For the most part my dogs just sleep while I work. So the fact that they're loose in the house doesn't actually mean they're more active, only that they *could* be. Even if I toss them outside, if I go look they're usually all just laying about taking sun or something similar. Granted, a dog that spends its day chewing the valuables is definitely less sedentary than the crated dog, but one would need to do a risk vs. beneifit analysis to decide which is worse for the dog (i.e., is it riskier for a dog to have enforced sedentariness than for a dog to potentially chew dangerous items that could cause temporary or permanent harm to the dog?). Dex, I, too, was a bit surprised about the Swedish laws. I don't think I'd want the government telling me the best way to take care of my pet in my own home. Very Big Brotherish. And I'd also wonder how such a thing was enforced. I lived in a town once that proposed to limit the number of cats one could own. My first question was what right would they have to come into my house and count the number of cats I had? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Simba, The presumed risk would be predicated on the assumption that a dog left loose in the house is more active than a crated dog. For the most part my dogs just sleep while I work. So the fact that they're loose in the house doesn't actually mean they're more active, only that they *could* be. I take two of my dogs to work with me a couple days a week and I can attest that even with people coming in and out to talk to me (or them), visitors at the front desking wanting to see or pet them, and me moving around, they spend the vast majority of time sleeping. The only things that cause them to consistently get up and move is someone coming in with food or me getting up to leave the front office area. So they do move a bit more than if they were crated, but not so much that being crated for 8-10 hours while I am gone would be a significant drop in activity compared to being lose. My Lhasa at 9, still needs to be crated or he will mark and I believe, feel more agitated with a whole house to patrol. He is in a roomy crate that allows him to stand, easily turn around, stretch out, etc. There are days that his crate looks awful comfy to me, like his own little cabana retreate from the world. :-) He gets a break at lunch time and has no hard feelings towards his crate, in fact runs to it when told to crate up. All my dogs like crates and will go in on their own to sleep. I do know crating is an area of big cultural differences, especially between the US and Europe. Years ago I got into a heated on-line debate with a big name UK agility person who insisted that crating was cruel and if you needed to crate your dog or puppy for more than 3 hours of day, you shouldn't have one. She informed me that she knew people who talked about how when they retired they would finally get a dog because they'd be home enough to care for one "properly." I told her that struck me as sad. She thought crating a puppy or dog was incredibly selfish. I thought she refused to even consider the evidence that lots of puppies and dogs lead happy, healthy, active lives despite spending part of the day in a crate. Not too surprisingly, we never came to any kind of agreement on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamgnome Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Must be alot of destroyed houses in Sweden!....What do people do when they go to work? (Doggie daycares must do very well). I'm not sure how you would enforce such regulations either?. Neighbors spying and reporting you if your dog was in it's crate a little longer than allowed. It does have an effect on who can get a puppy - I could only get my much longed for pup when I got the OK from my boss to have her at the office until she was large enough for doggy day care (8w to 8 months). And yes, doggy day care is ridiculously expensive and still there is a shortage of day care spots - expecially for large breeds as each company only has a permit for a maximum amount of kg of dogs (don't ask me who came up with than one). It's not really a question of enforcement, either. Since I had read up a lot before I got my puppy, I asked a lot of crating questions at puppy class. Guess what? The trainer said she could not comment/recommend crate training as it was not legal. This means that no puppy classes in Sweden bring up crate training to us owners. I must confess I did use a crate for my puppy at work - too many dangerous wires, and no possibility for her to settle down in a demi-open office landscape. Therefore, I have a wonderful dog just turned 1 year that knows about settling down, has no seperation anxiety etc etc. But I must admit, since the culture and the law views it as wrong, it didn't make me feel good about myself or what it said about the type of owner I apparently was. EDIT: There is also clear recommendations in the legal documents that no dog should be left alone more than 6 hours a day. We have high standards for who can be a dog owner - but I wonder who actually follows these laws and recommendations - the potentially good owners who are being told they cannot have a dog, or the ones that don't care about proper doggy care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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