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But I can say for myself that I would not have that kind of working partnership with any other type of dog.

 

That makes sense!

 

I thought you were saying across the board that an individual cannot have the same type of relationship with another breed. But I've seen people that seem to have very much the same type of bond/trust/working partnership with their dog/breed as I have with mine. Dogs that want to work as a team. I'm wondering if maybe you see more of that in a working context as opposed to a sporting context?

 

I am a Border Collie person through and through - for many of the reasons you stated. I'm positive that I'll always have at least one. I just don't think that I have an exclusive relationship based solely on the breed I choose. (though I definitely concur that one does have much better odds of that type of relationship with a Border Collie!)

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Dogs that want to work as a team. I'm wondering if maybe you see more of that in a working context as opposed to a sporting context?

 

Since the sporting context is the only work that I do with my Border Collies (three sports with two dogs and one with another pretty much fills up our training and performance time), I can't say how that differs from what one would see in other working situations.

 

But, again, it's not that I don't observe other types of dogs that want to work as a team - I absolutely do see that in sports. It's more the way that the Border Collie expresses that desire - the expression in the eyes, the body language, the non verbal, but loud and clear communication. The role that the Border Collie plays in that teamwork is different from the role a dog of another breed - even one very driven to work - plays.

 

And I wouldn't say that relationship is exclusive to the breed, but that the fact that a Border Collie is a Border Collie brings something to the relationship that any other kind of dog does not does not. Of course, that isn't the totality of the relationship, but it is significant.

 

I can say that my relationship with my mutts is (and was) quite different from the relationship that I have with my Border Collies. I love (and loved) them just as much, but in many ways it is (and was) living like two different types of animals altogether!! I hope nobody takes this the wrong way because I don't mean it totally literally, but in many ways I would characterize my relationship with my Border Collies more in the way that I relate to people, and I would characterize my relationship with my mutts more in the way that I relate to dogs. No, that does not mean that I think my Border Collies are people. The difference is just like that.

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Would like to jump into this conversation

I have a BC only due to a life situation of a friend, I now will never have any other breed its spoiled me rotten and would love a house full of them

this dog is so fun and keeps me on my toes and opened up my brain as far as thinking outside the box

my agility skills have been so improved due to his ability to learn and challenge me.

 

 

 

My other dog an aussie has and will be continual project the difference in the work ethic is unreal.

 

I do not see breeding for a sport dog as a way to enhance the BC

 

Inthe horse business many folks have linebred and inbred until the horses have become lesser animals for the intended purpose. Alot of people of the mind set that a little of this blood is good lets mix more and make it better caused many health issues and loss of the original good features.

 

This will happen without places like this forum to educate and give reference to proper breeding and handling information. I have learned so much from reading the information posted here.

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I would have to agree with Pam's original post, in the sense that top results in dog sports come more from the trainers talent level more often than the dog..

 

Coming from someone who competes in both USBCHA herding trails and dog sports, the great ability of great trainers can fill the gaps and train around certain "holes" or obstacles in the dogs and still attain GREAT success at more advanced levels..hence why some of the most AWESOME trainers I know are not the ones putting OTCH's or MACH's on border collies but on non-traditional performance breeds!!

 

BUT..in stockwork they either "have it or they don't"...of course GREAT trainer/handlers can fill some of these gaps to still make them relativley successful, but they still need a reasonable amount of "natural ability" to get them that far....

 

I also have observed during my time competing that ALOT of people(mostly novice) choose the border collie breed for sports for the same reason I see alot of people (mostly Novice) people choose them for stockwork...because of there "forgiveness"..which might go with biddability...I've seen time and time again a novice person able to get a Rally title or Novice agility with a border collie who would NEVER be able to do it with another breed. The border collies desire to work and there ability to take pressure to me is unique. There ability to pick up and just keep working despite the poor training or mistakes there trainer/handler is making....I still feel it everytime I step on on a trial field!!!

 

Even the top trainers in sports seem to prefer there "no quit" attitude...that they can make mistakes and the bc will still come right back at them wanting to work. They can take a HUGE amount of pressure, and still want to work for there handler, there loyalty limitless at a chance to work...(and I can give some pretty bad accounts of abuse I've witnessed during training for sports and stockwork with border collies and there heart just forgives and KEEPS ON WORKING)

 

 

I believe this trait, this heart and drive to work comes DIRECTLY from working stockdog lines and those alone....

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I would have to agree with Pam's original post, in the sense that top results in dog sports come more from the trainers talent level more often than the dog..

 

Coming from someone who competes in both USBCHA herding trails and dog sports, the great ability of great trainers can fill the gaps and train around certain "holes" or obstacles in the dogs and still attain GREAT success at more advanced levels..hence why some of the most AWESOME trainers I know are not the ones putting OTCH's or MACH's on border collies but on non-traditional performance breeds!!

 

BUT..in stockwork they either "have it or they don't"...of course GREAT trainer/handlers can fill some of these gaps to still make them relativley successful, but they still need a reasonable amount of "natural ability" to get them that far....

 

I also have observed during my time competing that ALOT of people(mostly novice) choose the border collie breed for sports for the same reason I see alot of people (mostly Novice) people choose them for stockwork...because of there "forgiveness"..which might go with biddability...I've seen time and time again a novice person able to get a Rally title or Novice agility with a border collie who would NEVER be able to do it with another breed. The border collies desire to work and there ability to take pressure to me is unique. There ability to pick up and just keep working despite the poor training or mistakes there trainer/handler is making....I still feel it everytime I step on on a trial field!!!

 

Even the top trainers in sports seem to prefer there "no quit" attitude...that they can make mistakes and the bc will still come right back at them wanting to work. They can take a HUGE amount of pressure, and still want to work for there handler, there loyalty limitless at a chance to work...(and I can give some pretty bad accounts of abuse I've witnessed during training for sports and stockwork with border collies and there heart just forgives and KEEPS ON WORKING)

 

 

I believe this trait, this heart and drive to work comes DIRECTLY from working stockdog lines and those alone....

 

 

Where's the "like" button when you need it

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