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Bridging division between Working Border Collie Tradition vs. “Working” Agility Dogs+Other Disciplines


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Because she is a border collie, Eluane must use all of her border collie brains, she must be the best she can ever be because she is a border collie, after all. Just like if I am an artist, I must do really good work!

 

No. Because of your set of ideals, your dog must be the best at your chosen version of the sport. But, sadly, I imagine that she'll never be able to live up to your perfect ideal because it is so narrow and unobtainable in your parameters.

 

Your dog would be quite happy chasing a ball, learning stupid pet tricks, doing freestyle, doing tracking, participating in NADAC agility or even just hanging out with you. You are the one who places great value on your chosen venue and you build the value for your dog as you make it rewarding.

 

And quite frankly my dogs have all been thrilled to simply go on car rides with me. Personally at this point in life I don't care about titles with my dogs. I love the teamwork and partnership I feel with my dogs, I love the feeling of accomplishment when we successfully complete a job or reach a goal together. But in the end the moments that melt my heart are the contented looks that say "you are my world, my life is good".

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"Your dog would be quite happy chasing a ball, learning stupid pet tricks, doing freestyle, doing tracking, participating in NADAC agility or even just hanging out with you. You are the one who places great value on your chosen venue and you build the value for your dog as you make it rewarding"

 

This statement by Mara, I absolutely agree with! I don't work sheep with my dogs but I do flyball and teach them endless "stupid" pet tricks...it makes me happy and them happy....yay...a win win if you ask me! However, I am of the mindset that doing flyball, freestyle, agility, etc etc... is performance based, not work based. I refer to my dogs as performance dogs, not working dogs, this is just how I look at it....besides, it's really just a label anyway so it doesn't matter whether any one person thinks the dog is working or performing IMO...I am having fun and my dogs are having fun, they are active and are not destructive, they have manners inside and outside the home, and they never have to worry that they are not in their forever homes.

Shawnee

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"Your dog would be quite happy chasing a ball, learning stupid pet tricks, doing freestyle, doing tracking, participating in NADAC agility or even just hanging out with you. You are the one who places great value on your chosen venue and you build the value for your dog as you make it rewarding"

 

This statement by Mara, I absolutely agree with! I don't work sheep with my dogs but I do flyball and teach them endless "stupid" pet tricks...it makes me happy and them happy....yay...a win win if you ask me! However, I am of the mindset that doing flyball, freestyle, agility, etc etc... is performance based, not work based. I refer to my dogs as performance dogs, not working dogs, this is just how I look at it....besides, it's really just a label anyway so it doesn't matter whether any one person thinks the dog is working or performing IMO...I am having fun and my dogs are having fun, they are active and are not destructive, they have manners inside and outside the home, and they never have to worry that they are not in their forever homes.

Shawnee

Yes, and yes!

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I do like Mara's statements:

 

Mara wrote:

Personally at this point in life I don't care about titles with my dogs. I love the teamwork and partnership I feel with my dogs, I love the feeling of accomplishment when we successfully complete a job or reach a goal together. But in the end the moments that melt my heart are the contented looks that say "you are my world, my life is good".

 

I love the teamwork and partnership....and Eluane is indeed a very happy dog too. She loves her "puppy school", she loves the mental and physical energy, and loves the hand signalling, and most of all, she loves being with me! There is so much sparkle in her eyes.... And she always gets the "you are my world" feeling. It makes no difference to Eluane how "good" I get to be. I'm just seeking to reach top handling levels eventually.

 

Rootbeer, thanks for the fantastic responses. I misunderstood you. I thought you said you had no interest in sheepherding. I think you should have undertaken the Bridge instead of me. You always build a great "Bridge" and I admit, I do a lot of accidental "dynamiting".

 

Folks, I dunno, I liked the Charlie Chaplin routine fairly well, but didn't like the Gladiator routine from a dancer's perspective. You see many dancers would not like viewing freestyle because of the dance movement of the handler...The freestyle techniques and training methods in of itself is brilliant, of course, but the handler's movements remain jarring to us. I'm just being honest. That's all. I like the movements of the border collie herding sheep much better. It has all the beauty and grace that I enjoy seeing. It has true flow and interchanging of movements. With freestyle, it's just difficult to watch a non-dancer who has intricate techniques but doesn't dance well themselves. Even ballet I'm extremely picky about. I will only bother watching the best ballet companies or modern dance companies like Momix and the American Ballet, and most of all the famous Russian and Ukrainian ballet. It is an aesthetics thing and where I came from. I grew up in NYC so we had constant exposure to the best of everything! Best ballets, best artwork, etc. I've worked with brilliant architects and designers so again, my pickiness level.

 

My personal favorite is watching Kate and Gin. They were doing a side-by-side comparison on Britain's You Got Talent, and then they showed a side-by-side comparison with the famous Tina and her dog on the exact same show, and it was Kate and Gin that were soooo much more fun and lovely to watch. Tina may be the technician, but I've watched enough of Tina's videos and Tina is miles behind compared with the ease I get from watching Kate and Gin's performances. You show me Tina's brilliant techniques, and I will turn her videos off in favor of Kate's: night-and-day difference for me. Kate may not have anywhere close to Tina's repertoire of techniques and training, but I find her far more enjoyable because at least Kate thinks out the music in of itself, there is a sweet thoughtfulness both in her contact with her sweet dog and how she uses very pleasant musical transitions. It's thinking out and reflecting the beauty of music for both dog and handler that dancers look for.

 

 

Tea, yikes, I won't contact you then. People with my disabilities and personality have long clashed with people with short fuses. It's like loading up more dynamite. I'll go ask someone else. My bluntness and lack of tact, believe me, is even WORSE verbally.

 

Lauralae, yes, CALTech and MIT are indeed stockwork :lol: but some people just don't have it, it wasn't our destiny or path in life. Artist is the best our lives determined we can do...hence I'm a mediocre artist not a good one when it comes to the arena of agility :rolleyes: But I still maintain that the higher and the more complex of a level you train and compete in, the higher the difficulty, and the more challenged one's agility dog gets to be.

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Serena,

I really don't care what agility you do or where you do it or how often. If you'd actually read my post you would have seen my point was that YOU do not speak for the agility masses as you were claiming to do. You can speak to your OWN experiences, but unless you actually know what "agility folks" mostly think or do, then what you offer are YOUR experiences. That's perfectly fine, just don't misrepresent the agility community as a whole.

 

Now you might be interested to know that some org's actually allow you to video your runs at any facility and submit the taped runs as progress towards titles. It started with an org called VALOR and now NADAC has stolen, err borrowed, their idea for their own titling purposes as well. So really no more excuses for the "woe is me" routine.

 

Also the reason the sports section on these forums is not very active is there are already so many other lists/forums/social media outlets out there for discussing agility with agility people. The sports section here is an afterthought, not the main purpose of these boards.

 

Happy trialling.

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Tea, yikes, I won't contact you then. People with my disabilities and personality have long clashed with people with short fuses. It's like loading up more dynamite. I'll go ask someone else. My bluntness and lack of tact, believe me, is even WORSE verbally.

 

 

That's it. Though I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting Tea in person, she is one of the most compassionate, giving individuals on the face of this earth. You would do well to spend a little time in her company and it would be a privilege for you to do so. And if this is too personal forgive me, but any kind of disability is no excuse for just plain rude behavior.

 

Please, everyone. Enough is enough. She's clearly enjoying the debate and whatever you say is to no avail.

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I was kind of hoping to make it as #800. Stupid goal.

 

Can't we close this down before I get there? Everything that needs to be said - plus all the stuff that shouldn't ever have been said or should have been ignored - has been said.

 

I'll pass on #800.

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We can just post Shaun the Sheep until #800 and then ask Eileen to close it.

 

A few people have asked me to close the thread, but I don't really see it as part of my role (or prerogative) as moderator to close a thread just because I think it's pointless, tedious, frustrating, repetitious, unproductive, or the like, even if I feel sure that most other members would agree. If it's interesting to even a few people, I think they're entitled to keep posting if they want to. Presumably participation will dwindle as more and more people give up on the conversation (or so I would have thought, anyway :)). Y'all hold it in your power to close the thread by just not posting to it anymore.

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