How much to feed a 10 week puppy

[KeithB]

Ben was always hungry. I think i mis understood the vet and was giving him a 1/4 cup 4 x a day

 

I read the IAMs puppy food bag and it says for 10 pounds and 10 weeks 2 1/2 cups a day. So upped to 1/2 cup 4x a day. He seems much less hungry.

 

Reading a great book on Border Collies ("Understanding Border Collies") by Barbara Sykes, has a great chapter on nutrition, i learned a lot, it seems % of protein and fat are very important depending on dogs age and amount of activity. Plan to reread this chapter. I was so clueless in this area.

 

Thanks for your input

[ChantalB]

Don't Feed iams!

[KeithB]

Don't Feed iams!

 

Be nice if you told me why not

[Liz P]

Don't go by what the bag says aside from using it as a rough guide, base your feeding on the weight of the dog. Border Collie pups should be skinny and all legs. If they are "roly poly" they are at increased risk of hip dysplasia and other joint disorders.

 

BTW, I wouldn't personally feed Iams.

[JohnLloydJones]

Be nice if you told me why not

Opinions vary wildly on what is the "right" food for your dog. You might want to look at this site for some pointers at what might be a good food.

[Liz P]

It used to be a good food, then about 8 years ago the company was sold. The price dropped to half of what it had been and it was suddenly available in grocery stores. Breeders who had fed it for years noticed their dogs were doing poorly on it; getting bloody diarrhea, had less energy, coats were dull and brittle, etc. They must have switched to much lower quality ingredients to drop the price down by half.

[KeithB]

Thanks

[KeithB]

My Vet sells Science Diet, is that good?

[Liz P]

I'm a vet and I don't like SD all that much. Their foods tend to be heavy in plant proteins, which are useless to dogs.

[Jim Kling]

I'm a vet and I don't like SD all that much. Their foods tend to be heavy in plant proteins, which are useless to dogs.

 

 

Can you elaborate on this? Why wouldn't they be able to use plant proteins?

[Liz P]

Mammals can't efficiently break down and use plant sources of protein and fat. They lack the enzymes and metabolic pathways to do that. Animals that can use plant proteins and fats have microorganisms in their gut that do the work for them (cattle, sheep, horses, pandas, etc).

[waffles]

I know someone who feeds their senior dog the Science Diet for seniors...the first ingredient is CORN! SD is junk, you can get the same low grade food for cheaper at the grocery store if that is what you want to feed. Ideally, you want to feed a food with no corn (it is just a filler), no by-products, and has meat as the first ingredient (or 1st few ingredients). There are plenty of affordable grain-free foods on the market, and to be honest, it is just one cost of owning a dog. I think it is too important to not feed a dog well, why else put all the other money, time, and love into an animal if you are just going to feed it junk?

[Liz P]

Whole corn, just listed as "corn" on the list of ingredients, is not a filler, it's a source of quick energy (carbs). However, it should not be a primary source of energy for dogs with a few exceptions. Grain free foods just use a different source of carbs such as potatoes, which isn't better for the dog unless the dog has an allergy to corn. How the food is processed (made) can have a huge impact on quality and digestability, so corn in one food might cause a problem for a dog but corn in a different brand might be ok.

 

Corn gluten (protein) IS a "filler" used to artificially raise the listed protein % in foods.

[KeithB]

I know someone who feeds their senior dog the Science Diet for seniors...the first ingredient is CORN! SD is junk, you can get the same low grade food for cheaper at the grocery store if that is what you want to feed. Ideally, you want to feed a food with no corn (it is just a filler), no by-products, and has meat as the first ingredient (or 1st few ingredients). There are plenty of affordable grain-free foods on the market, and to be honest, it is just one cost of owning a dog. I think it is too important to not feed a dog well, why else put all the other money, time, and love into an animal if you are just going to feed it junk?

 

I am all for that, so who are some who make such a quality food?

 

Thanks

[KeithB]

Liz, i would be interested to know what you feed your dogs

[Smalahundur]

Mammals can't efficiently break down and use plant sources of protein and fat. They lack the enzymes and metabolic pathways to do that. Animals that can use plant proteins and fats have microorganisms in their gut that do the work for them (cattle, sheep, horses, pandas, etc).

Huh? Those animals use said microoganisms to break down cellulose.

Mammals, humans and dogs included can and will "efficiently break down plant sources of fat and protein", no other enzymes and metabolic pathways necessary, fat=fat, protein=protein.

You don´t need special intestinal flora to digest a handful of peanuts (high in both fat and protein).

[rushdoggie]

Huh? Those animals use said microoganisms to break down cellulose.

Mammals, humans and dogs included can and will "efficiently break down plant sources of fat and protein", no other enzymes and metabolic pathways necessary, fat=fat, protein=protein.

You don´t need special intestinal flora to digest a handful of peanuts (high in both fat and protein).

 

I'm guessing (perhaps incorrectly) that she meant carnivores, not mammals.

[JohnLloydJones]

Huh? Those animals use said microoganisms to break down cellulose.

Mammals, humans and dogs included can and will "efficiently break down plant sources of fat and protein", no other enzymes and metabolic pathways necessary, fat=fat, protein=protein.

You don´t need special intestinal flora to digest a handful of peanuts (high in both fat and protein).

The protein content stated on the food bag is usually the total protein, not the available protein content. Plant cells have a tough cell wall that may not break down sufficiently to allow full access to the protein. Actually, what is normally measured is the protein, estimated by the total Nitrogen content. This can be way off if there is a significant non-protein source of Nitrogen (e.g. Melamine, which was used to boost the Nitrogen content of imported gluten).

[KeithB]

think i will try this, the local Border Collie rescue uses it

 

Taste of the Wild

[Alchemist]

think i will try this, the local Border Collie rescue uses it

 

Taste of the Wild

 

I'm using "Taste of the Wild" (switched from "Innova Large Bites" after they got sold to Procter and Gamble); Duncan's trainer uses it as well. It's a good food, and comes in a couple of different flavors. One caveat: some of the flavors have a much higher protein content than the other two. If it were my pup, I'd keep it on the two flavors with lower protein content, at least for now.

[Liz P]

Sigh, thanks for clarifying my posts. I should reframe from trying to sound smart when I have the flu and am taking loads of medicine that makes my brain fuzzy.

 

Fat does not always = fat and protein does not always = protein that an organism can use. The more complex a fat or protein is, the harder it is to break it down. More complex molecules often require very specialized enzymes.

 

Humans cook, grind and otherwise process plants to release as much nutrition as possible, but we still can't digest and use all the energy in plants. Even horses are very inefficient when compared to cows, and overall, cows aren't that efficient. Despite the help of a rumen full of microorganisms they have to eat vast quantities of plants to meet their daily requirements.

 

Isn't Taste of the Wild owned by the same company that makes Iams?

[Journey]

No. TOTW is a Diamond product. I highly recommend it.

[KeithB]

I'm using "Taste of the Wild" (switched from "Innova Large Bites" after they got sold to Procter and Gamble); Duncan's trainer uses it as well. It's a good food, and comes in a couple of different flavors. One caveat: some of the flavors have a much higher protein content than the other two. If it were my pup, I'd keep it on the two flavors with lower protein content, at least for now.

 

 

Thanks, i found a couple local places that sell TOTW, so will get some thinking of the lamb based one;

Sierra Mountain Canine Formula

[Maralynn]

I know someone who feeds their senior dog the Science Diet for seniors...the first ingredient is CORN! SD is junk, you can get the same low grade food for cheaper at the grocery store if that is what you want to feed. Ideally, you want to feed a food with no corn (it is just a filler), no by-products, and has meat as the first ingredient (or 1st few ingredients). There are plenty of affordable grain-free foods on the market, and to be honest, it is just one cost of owning a dog. I think it is too important to not feed a dog well, why else put all the other money, time, and love into an animal if you are just going to feed it junk?

 

I don't mind a certain amount of grain in a food if the dog tolerates it well. And more and more I've seen some "grain-free" foods that are starch heavy (loaded with potatoes and peas) What I don't like is paying top dollar for a food tht is mostly grain (or another starch) - IAMS, SD, most well advertised commercial brands.

 

I look for foods that have both 1st and 2nd ingredients as meat and then a third meat ingredient in the top five.

[PSmitty]

Mine eat TOTW, too. Good idea to steer clear of Iams and Science Diet. You can do much better for your dog, and for less. The site that John linked (dogfoodproject.com) is an excellent source to learn from, I highly recommend it.

 

And ditto whoever said not to go just by what the bag says. They're just a range, anyway, I usually stay at the lower end. You want slow steady growth, not a roly poly puppy.