Vaccine Reaction

[scullywags]

yesterday my 2yr old was given his yr booster vaccines

Bordetella (6 month booster)

Lepto

Lyme

heartworm test

fecal

and a 3 yr continum (not sure what that was)

 

And when he was picked up from vet my husband said he was limping

he was limiping when i got home from work and then this am still limps

he seems to work out of it but is tenative in putting the leg down

 

called the vet this am told me if hes eating and drinking and no fever then it should be fine in 24hrs

if not bring him back

it this normal ? anyone had this occur?

[Journey]

Not normal but where was the vaccine given? And why so many? And what is a *3yr continum*?

[scullywags]

my vet says the lepto was given in the hip muscle so thats why hes sore

i had no idea they were going to give all that at 1 time how ever after the fact i

will not do this again have never had issue with past dogs and i rely in vet to use common sense obviously i see they just what to make $ first and were not too concerned over this reaction when i called this morning

but in researching i see its pry best to do the antigen (sp) test and only give whats needed

now i feel terribly guilty in trying to care for him i may have caused harm than good

but i travel with him alot so i want him to be protected

[MaryP]

I Googled it. Continuum is a brand name. I'll bet it was a distemper combo vaccine. Personally, I'd ditch the Bordetella, Lepto, and Lyme. But, that's just me. Not sure about the limping. It could be coincindence or it could be vaccine related. It could be that the dog is sore at the shoulder (a common locatoin for vaccines) and is limping because of it.

[gcv-border]

yesterday my 2yr old was given his yr booster vaccines

Bordetella (6 month booster)

Lepto

Lyme

heartworm test

fecal

and a 3 yr continum (not sure what that was)

 

And when he was picked up from vet my husband said he was limping

he was limiping when i got home from work and then this am still limps

he seems to work out of it but is tenative in putting the leg down

 

called the vet this am told me if hes eating and drinking and no fever then it should be fine in 24hrs

if not bring him back

it this normal ? anyone had this occur?

 

Too bad that your dog had to endure so many pokes at one time. How does he like the vet?

 

I have not allowed my vet to give more than one vaccination at a time, and have received some eyebrow-raising at a couple of vets. My attitued is "Hey, it's my dog and if I am willing to pay another office visit fee to get a second vaccination, then that is my choice." One vet did tell me that they prefer to give the annual vaccinations at one time since some clients do not bring their dogs back in for a second (or third) annual vaccination.

 

I agree with Mary P - I do not do Lyme, Lepto or Bordatella.

 

Lyme: The vaccine may have been improved recently, but when I looked into it about 6-7 years ago, it was only ~50% effective. A waste of money in my point of view.

 

Lepto: I recently considered getting it because my vet's office had a flyer about dogs that live out in the country and are exposed to wildlife scat should be vaccinated against Lepto. For a second opinion, I called my rehab vet who has hunting dogs, and she does not recommend Lepto. In her estimation, the vaccine is not good enough.

 

Bordatella: I have had my dogs vaccinated with Bordatella because the kennel where I boarded them while on vacation required it. Luckily, I have found a kennel who is more enlightened and does not require Bordatella. I would probably give it again if I HAD to for kenneling or traveling.

 

My guess is that the Lepto vaccine was given im (intramuscular). It is not unusual for im vaccinations to cause muscle soreness because the needle may poke into a nerve bundle. Same goes for Rabies vaccination (also im injection) - my vet told me that many vets always inject into the right haunch (Right - Rabies) in case the dog does develop a soreness or limp after, it is easy to remember where they injected.

 

Jovi

[Journey]

And I am at the other end....I do no vaccines at all after their puppy shots. They're either covered or they're not, there's no such critter as *boosting*.

 

Hope your boy is doing better. Don't beat yourself up, you trusted your vet. Now maybe there will not be a next time.

[simba]

A bit of soreness is normal after any injection into a muscle, depending on the site and volume injected, and whether the immune system's responding to it.

 

It soemtimes happens to me after I get my shots, though I haven't noticed it in the dog. Probably nothing to worry about. I'm generally pleased when I notice it in myself, because I have to be immunised against certan diseases for work, and I've noticed that when I'm sore, I'm more likely to be protected by that vaccination. It must be that the immune system sets up some inflammation when it notices something's there (whch will help it recognise it and fight it in future). Sometimes it's sore for two or three days afterwards. That's why they often give it in the non-dominant arm.

 

A friend was very pleased, she didn't get any soreness at all- she had to have 2 more courses of the vaccine when the titre results came back. She hadn't got any protection from it the first time, they had to give it again until it took (her immune system finally responded).

[scullywags]

And I am at the other end....I do no vaccines at all after their puppy shots. They're either covered or they're not, there's no such critter as *boosting*.

 

Hope your boy is doing better. Don't beat yourself up, you trusted your vet. Now maybe there will not be a next time.

 

 

Yes its the right hind so that was the site of Lepto injection

and yes I did trust them to care for my dog however after seeing the information posted here I am certainly going to makes some changes

The bordatella is required where i train my dog however he still contracted kennel couch and was treated forit and then my vet tells me the vaccine is only good for about 4 months and not all strains

but it lessens the symtoms if they do contract so darned if you do or don't from what I see

 

I am just hoping my dog does not suffer too long for my lack of knowledge.

 

Thanks for the information that you all are providing its been very helpful during my panic!!

[WWBC]

For the bordatella, since you are required to have it, ask for the intra nasal bordatella as opposed to the injection. And it is true the bordatella and lepto vaccines do not cover nearly enough of the strains out there, for that reason my dog doesn't get those particular vaccines. I have a good relationship with my vet(or she wouldn't be my vet) and she is aware that I live in the country, ( with plenty of wildlife in the surrounding woods ) she knows I don't vaccinate for Lepto, in the event that the dog became sick, she would know that Lepto might be a possibility, and act accordingly. Discuss your concerns with your vet, if you don't like their responses, start looking for another vet. Make an appt to speak to other vets if necessary, use the time to discuss your concerns and protocol for the care of your dog. Your vet is offering a service, if they don't offer the services you want/need, find another vet. I travel almost an hour each way to the vet because the 6 or 7 local vets are not acceptable to me. I would hesitate to take a dog to any of the locals, I don't agree with their treatment regimes. So I go farther to find a vet I can believe in and trust.

[juliepoudrier]

^^This. It's my situation and my philosophy too. Tomorrow I will be driving nearly an hour and a half to take my pup to the vet for her well-puppy check and second shot. I want a specific type of vaccine and a specific vaccination protocol, and my vet works with me on that. I don't like the time or gas required to drive that far, but being able to work with a vet/practice that will work with me is really priceless.

 

J.

[Mark Billadeau]

And I am at the other end....I do no vaccines at all after their puppy shots. They're either covered or they're not, there's no such critter as *boosting*.

Vaccines for bacteria, like lepto and lyme, typically have a DOI of no more than 1 year; annual vaccinations are REQUIRED for protection in these cases.

 

 

 

An open handler in NC a few years ago almost lost her top dog to lepto.

http://www.bordercol...indpost&p=55137

 

We use the 4 way lepto vaccine on our dogs every year (12 month DOI).

[scullywags]

I have used this vet for many years not having any issue

sadly you learn when bad things happen

 

hoping it is a sore injection site that resolves quickly

but certainly think twice about giving multiple or any in the future without

tiers and a talk with the vet

 

I was shocked to see they did so many things at one time my other question is

it really needed to do heartworm checks if the animal has been on heart worm

since 4 moths of age and no lapse in medication?

What are thoughts on that?

[Mark Billadeau]

I was shocked to see they did so many things at one time my other question is

it really needed to do heartworm checks if the animal has been on heart worm

since 4 moths of age and no lapse in medication?

What are thoughts on that?

There are increasing number of cases in the Gulf Coast where dogs on preventative have become HM positive.

If they are using the Snap test you are also testing for several tick born diseases which is important where you live.

[PSmitty]

I was shocked to see they did so many things at one time my other question is

it really needed to do heartworm checks if the animal has been on heart worm

since 4 moths of age and no lapse in medication?

What are thoughts on that?

 

Yes, please do yearly HW checks, just to be safe. I speak from experience, as I have a dog who came up HW+ while he was on HW preventative. (Whether the preventative failed, or the original negative HW test was wrong, I'll never know, but the makers of the HW preventative paid in full for his treatment).

[WWBC]

I used the same vet for over 25 years...watched his kids grow up.......it was really hard to leave the practice. They grew,in the last 4 years built a huge new hospital, hired two young vets, who married shortly after being hired. They were right out of school and young, still had/have a lot of other things they would have rathe been doing. The original vet was practicing less and less and the new clinic/vets increased his costs. I watched the practice become about money not pet care. I was truly sad. But, I didn't want my dog's care to become just another business money maker. And yes, I did talk to the original vet and address my concerns with the direction the practice was taking. The answers were not agreeable to me. So I began a search for my new vet, taking copies of all my records and spending time talking to various candidates. I was able to locate a vet I respect and am very comfortable with after "interviewing" several practices. I am looking forward to building a new history with my current vet. I won't respond about the HW question because Mark is right. There have been break thrus of HW in dogs on prevention, so best to check status.

[scullywags]

I used the same vet for over 25 years...watched his kids grow up.......it was really hard to leave the practice. They grew,in the last 4 years built a huge new hospital, hired two young vets, who married shortly after being hired. They were right out of school and young, still had/have a lot of other things they would have rathe been doing. The original vet was practicing less and less and the new clinic/vets increased his costs. I watched the practice become about money not pet care. I was truly sad. But, I didn't want my dog's care to become just another business money maker. And yes, I did talk to the original vet and address my concerns with the direction the practice was taking. The answers were not agreeable to me. So I began a search for my new vet, taking copies of all my records and spending time talking to various candidates. I was able to locate a vet I respect and am very comfortable with after "interviewing" several practices. I am looking forward to building a new history with my current vet. I won't respond about the HW question because Mark is right. There have been break thrus of HW in dogs on prevention, so best to check status.

 

 

I just wanted to make certain it was not another false charge or false reason to be poking on them

[Journey]

Vaccines for bacteria, like lepto and lyme, typically have a DOI of no more than 1 year; annual vaccinations are REQUIRED for protection in these cases

 

Yes, I am very aware of the Lepto case. However, I was also told by my vet that the Lyme shot is about 70% ineffective. WRT boosting I was speaking of the standard DHLPP....sorry about any confusion.

[juliepoudrier]

I, too, am aware of Denise's case with lepto, but I have opted not to vaccinate my dogs. Like WWBC noted, if one becomes sick, then lepto would be one thing we'd automatically have to rule out, but I'm just not convinced that the risk/benefit equation comes down firmly on the side of vaccinating against it. (I did treat one dog for lepto five years ago when he had an unexplained illness that couldn't be attributed to anything else. He recovered on the treatment regimen. I don't know if that means he had lepto or simply that whatever was ailing him responded to the same treatment, but the end result was a healthy dog, and I'll take that!) This is one of those situations where an individual has to decide what amount of risk they're willing to take in order to minimize the number of vaccines their dogs are being given. I've made my choice, and others have to make their own choices.

 

As for HW testing, I don't test all of my dogs each year (it would be cost prohibitive to do so), but I do rotate through and check them all periodically and always if I take them in for an unexplained lameness (for the TBD portion of the Snap test, with the HW test just being an added bonus in that case). So far so good.

 

As an aside, there was a discussion on Tick-L recently about ivermectin being used in other countries to control dog ticks, but the doses used for that are much higher than what is used for HW prophylaxis and so could present problems in sensitive dogs. I didn't read any studies about how it worked or if it applied to anything other than the brown dog tick, but the idea is interesting nonetheless.

 

J.

[MaryP]

Also, even if you vaccinate for Lepto, your dog could still get Lepto, since it doesn't cover all strains. So, if your dog shows any signs of Lepto, regardless of vaccination status, you would (should) treat it as if it did have Lepto. If someone feels better vaccinating for Lepto, that's their choice. I just think that it's one of those cases where the risk outweighs the benefit. But, that's just my opinion and anyone is free to disagree.

[Mark Billadeau]

Yes, I am very aware of the Lepto case. However, I was also told by my vet that the Lyme shot is about 70% ineffective.

The two most recently released lyme vaccines (released in the last 4 years or so against Osp A and Osp A & C) both have a reported effectiveness of 100% with a DOI of 12months. The annual cost of these vaccines is slightly less than a 50 day course of doxy for a 35lb dog.

 

Researchers studying lepto suspect there is some cross-protection between two of the most commonly found serovars in North America (one of which is in the new 4-way vaccines), and there is on going research to find Leptospira interrogans that confer cross-protection with which new vaccines can be prepared.

 

Infection and Immunity, November 2001, p. 6831-6838, Vol. 69, No. 11

Journal of Infectious Diseases (2011) 203 (6): 870-879

[juliepoudrier]

But of course your $$ figures don't take into account multiple dogs and the unlikely event that *all* would be infected. Again, I think it's a situation of doing your own risk/benefit analysis and making a choice. I've made my choice and I am happy with it. Others may choose a different course. That's their choice. I personally prefer not to assault my dogs with a gazillion vaccines on a yearly basis. If I started to see an increase in dogs coming down with lepto, I would probably change my mind, but so far it doesn't seem to be a huge problem among rural dogs. YMMV.

 

J.

[Mark Billadeau]

Julie the costs are why we don't vaccinate for lyme. But we have treated for lyme 4xs so far.

 

The state of vaccines is always changing and we should be sure to have the most up-to-date information (DIO, effectiveness, etc) while having discussions about vaccination preferences since there are others reading what is posted and are making their choices using the information and opinions we post. Outdated and inaccurate information should be corrected.

[Alchemist]

The two most recently released lyme vaccines (released in the last 4 years or so against Osp A and Osp A & C) both have a reported effectiveness of 100% with a DOI of 12months. The annual cost of these vaccines is slightly less than a 50 day course of doxy for a 35lb dog.

 

 

 

Mark, I had no idea that the newer Lyme vaccines were this effective. That's great news! Thanks for sharing this.

 

One thing that should factor into any sort of cost/benefit analysis is, of course, the risk of a dog's developing issues related to Lyme's disease (heart problems, permanent lameness) that can't be cured by doxy. Hard to put a price on that one.

 

I agree with Julie: everyone has to make the choice for their own dogs. Living in the Lyme capital of the world, with only one dog's vaccination cost to cover, and having trouble convincing my husband that more dogs would be better... we've opted for the vaccination route. We've also been doing both Advantix collars and Frontline, at least outside of swimming season. Maybe that's overkill, but certainly there is more than one tick-borne disease around...

 

Personal experiences also weigh in. A good friend's dog came very close to dying from eating part of a mouse. So we've opted for lepto vaccination. But I no longer do Bordatella, and I'm not planning on any more DPP (unless needed for boarding/grooming etc. - so far so good).

[scullywags]

The two most recently released lyme vaccines (released in the last 4 years or so against Osp A and Osp A & C) both have a reported effectiveness of 100% with a DOI of 12months. The annual cost of these vaccines is slightly less than a 50 day course of doxy for a 35lb dog.

 

Researchers studying lepto suspect there is some cross-protection between two of the most commonly found serovars in North America (one of which is in the new 4-way vaccines), and there is on going research to find Leptospira interrogans that confer cross-protection with which new vaccines can be prepared.

 

Infection and Immunity, November 2001, p. 6831-6838, Vol. 69, No. 11

Journal of Infectious Diseases (2011) 203 (6): 870-879

 

 

Scully is back to himself this morning THANKFULLY

I will now be doing research instead of just going with what the vet says to decide what his best bet is for warding off disease or lessening its effects I thank all you for the great info resources and will be using them as part of my decision for his and my other dogs future care.

[Journey]

Here, have some more to make you even moreso confused

 

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM

 

Glad your boy is back to himself!