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Skidding off table because of apeed


ChantalB
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New problem, hehe, I'm trying to see what's the best way to get him to collect himself before the table so he doesn't skid off it. We are not using a rubberized table. I have a few ideas, but being a newbie I'm coming here of course and asking for help.

 

I never trained for this as we've never encountered the speed he gets in they trial running full open courses.

 

What I'd I set a jump in front of the table so he's jumping from a better take off point and landing in a down. You know so it's more of an up/down, instead of a run to table and skid into a down with the more flat jump he's doing.. (don't know if that makes sense).

 

Haha I don't know if that's a crazy idea or not. Lol

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New problem, hehe, I'm trying to see what's the best way to get him to collect himself before the table so he doesn't skid off it. We are not using a rubberized table. I have a few ideas, but being a newbie I'm coming here of course and asking for help.

 

I never trained for this as we've never encountered the speed he gets in they trial running full open courses.

 

What I'd I set a jump in front of the table so he's jumping from a better take off point and landing in a down. You know so it's more of an up/down, instead of a run to table and skid into a down with the more flat jump he's doing.. (don't know if that makes sense).

 

Haha I don't know if that's a crazy idea or not. Lol

 

I would probably try a target. I would teach him to drive to a target and stop, even down, on the flat.

 

Then, once he knows that, I would backchain it to the table.

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I train the dog to dive into a "down" position on the table. I use a treat in one hand that I hold on the table and as the dog hits the table (diving for the treat), I tell him "down" and with the other hand gently apply pressure to his back to reinforce the down. I only apply the pressure, though, if he hesitates going into the down position. Eventually, it should become second nature to hit the table and immediately go into a down. If they are doing that, then they shouldn't be skidding off the table. I'm using this technique right now with my newest agility trainee and it works very well.

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Target! Great! Hah what a good way to solve it, thanks!

 

And the target doesn't have to be a traditional nose-touch round target, although it could be. You could shape a default down on a mat and use that as a target, or a paw target of some sort.

 

Figure out what will work best for your dog to run to and stop. Dean never did get the hang of running to a nose target and stopping. His back feet will end up ahead of him even as he stops to nose touch! For him a "splat on mat" type target works much better. Other dogs do fine with the nose touch target. I would just experiment on the flat and see what works.

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Rex has an automatic down on the table but he still slides off sometimes (and once, he slid off while in a down position!). What I need to teach him now is to collect when he sees the table. Rex and collection are a work in progress.

 

 

This is actually what I'm thinking of more. He has an auto down on the table, but he's still skidding off when he gets in that full extended run, (especially our last standard run, table right after the tunnel, holy was he barreling.) like he's going for the down but he needs to stand up and bail because he's just too fast. Which I'd rather he bail than hurt himself... I can see him when he's running, and he goes for the table and he gets that "oh cr*p look" and needs to bail because he just can't collect himself enough.

 

When I mentioned jump I was thinking of using it to help him to collect to the table as he would collect himself when he sees a jump. But I don't quite know how to go about it...

 

restrained recalls to a table with me by it to get him pumped and run full out like in trial maybe..

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This is actually what I'm thinking of more. He has an auto down on the table, but he's still skidding off when he gets in that full extended run, (especially our last standard run, table right after the tunnel, holy was he barreling.) like he's going for the down but he needs to stand up and bail because he's just too fast. Which I'd rather he bail than hurt himself... I can see him when he's running, and he goes for the table and he gets that "oh cr*p look" and needs to bail because he just can't collect himself enough.

 

When I mentioned jump I was thinking of using it to help him to collect to the table as he would collect himself when he sees a jump. But I don't quite know how to go about it...

 

restrained recalls to a table with me by it to get him pumped and run full out like in trial maybe..

I think you are on the right track about collection.I have a similar problem, the only venue we do with a table is USDAA so we only have an automatic down and sometimes Rievaulx comes flying into the table then just keeps sliding while in a down position, always looks very dramatic. We never get "oh c..." look as he seems to think it was fun and happily will repeat the drama.

Your post has made me think about this: how about if you trained collection on the table in a similar manner to the way Linda Mecklburg teaches jumping collection, by having them jump into your space, but in this case be on the backside of the table. Maybe send through a tunnel for speed, and then slowly add handler motion back in. with a restrained send you are taking your motion out of the picture, which I know with my speedy monster is a huge part of our training, dealing with my forward motion.

 

Just thoughts that I think I should try myself.

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I think I will just micro-manage it (like, down him and then approach the table with great trepidation and thinly veiled threats). We only have tables in AAC in Starters and Advanced. We never have them in Regionals/Nationals so I'm willing to do a temporary solution. Also, any USDAA we do will probably be just tournament classes. Having said that, we've lost two Standard Qs already to slide-y tables, so I should really do something about it! biggrin.gif

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I would strive for a complete understanding of the table performance first. It really is a chain of several behaviors if you think about it. Table means find the table, run to it quickly, collect yourself before getting up there, jump up from the approach side, lie down, and stay until I say the magic word. If the dog does not have practice and be fluent in all aspects of the behavior chain, the performance will be less than ideal. And it all has to be done independent of my position or motion. I would proof this initially in less exciting environments as a solo obstacle, breaking down components by backchaining as needed, then add variable handling to it, then add the speed. Rev the dog up as much as possible, send it through two straight tunnels to the table, play a 1-2-3 go game send to table with you running full speed past the table etc. IMO, if the dog is not performing it correctly, it either doesn't understand its job, needs physical practice in the act of collecting and getting on the table or needs impulse control work. Get crazy/settle games, etc. If you have a high drive dog, one reward is to go. I either reward with getting to go or throwing a toy. In practice, I often release quickly for the better performances. As soon the elbows hit down, I release with a thrown toy or go to next obstacle. If my dog gets on and doesn't even try to stop, he gets nothing. If he makes effort to stop but just slides off, he might get a verbal good try but he has to go and do it again correctly to get his reward. I usually do not lower criteria on the retry as long as I feel like the dog understands his job and I have done a good job of training. It will be hard to replicate the excitement the dog feels at a trial, but if you can make other aspects of the training harder (max speed to table, you blasting by it, throwing a toy without releasing the dog, etc), then it should make your trials much more manageable.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I would strive for a complete understanding of the table performance first. It really is a chain of several behaviors if you think about it. Table means find the table, run to it quickly, collect yourself before getting up there, jump up from the approach side, lie down, and stay until I say the magic word. If the dog does not have practice and be fluent in all aspects of the behavior chain, the performance will be less than ideal. And it all has to be done independent of my position or motion. I would proof this initially in less exciting environments as a solo obstacle, breaking down components by backchaining as needed, then add variable handling to it, then add the speed. Rev the dog up as much as possible, send it through two straight tunnels to the table, play a 1-2-3 go game send to table with you running full speed past the table etc. IMO, if the dog is not performing it correctly, it either doesn't understand its job, needs physical practice in the act of collecting and getting on the table or needs impulse control work. Get crazy/settle games, etc. If you have a high drive dog, one reward is to go. I either reward with getting to go or throwing a toy. In practice, I often release quickly for the better performances. As soon the elbows hit down, I release with a thrown toy or go to next obstacle. If my dog gets on and doesn't even try to stop, he gets nothing. If he makes effort to stop but just slides off, he might get a verbal good try but he has to go and do it again correctly to get his reward. I usually do not lower criteria on the retry as long as I feel like the dog understands his job and I have done a good job of training. It will be hard to replicate the excitement the dog feels at a trial, but if you can make other aspects of the training harder (max speed to table, you blasting by it, throwing a toy without releasing the dog, etc), then it should make your trials much more manageable.

 

Thanks for the advice. Practising some of these things now. He definately knows his job, as he wants to stay on that table, but he legitemetly skidded off the table at the trial.

 

Haven't been able to replicate it thus far, I'm thinking I need a tunnel to really but him over the edge to replicate it, but I need to wait till next week at class to try it out. Right now he's collecting into a down at his "practice speed". And no sliding off. Another trial in two weeks so we'll see how it goes. Hopefully the other games we've been playing will help. 3 standard runs, so I'll run the first one normally, and if not I'll micro manage it and see if I can schedule a "table lesson" with an instructor.

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