Alicia Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 So.. I have my pup, plan is to herd cattle with her. She's 5 months so too young to start, not that I have any cattle or even sheep to work her on if she was ready. (I do have 2 goats though.. but I dont think that'll quite work.. lol) So.. I've been doing basic obedience. Emphasis on "Down" she can do a long distance down now almost 100% of the time. Sometimes she'll start slinking towards me but for the most part she just downs. She Sits, Downs, Stays for extended periods of time, waits for doors and gates if told to wait. will Stay while I walk away and shakes hands ;D And of course comes and walks well on the leash. Is there anything I can, or should be doing to prep her for when she is 1-1 1/2 years and starting on stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I like to socialize a pup as much as possible. I like a dog to be confident and relaxed in new and different situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Thanks Wendy I have been doing that. we go to PetSmart, the Feed Store, she goes to work with me, we also go to the park and live at a Doggie Daycare ;D Anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Teach her: That'll do. The command is for her to immediately stop whatever she is doing and come to you. It is used to signal the end of whatever she is doing. Start with no distractions. I would start with a favorite toy. You may have to physically do a lot at first, but she should catch on quickly. As she gets more responsive with it, start adding distractions, and then when she is excited. When you get her on sheep, she will need to know this. And she will need to be as close to 100% as you can get her. There won't be any leads out in the field! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Ok, so like be playing with her.. and then say "That'll do" and put take the toy away be done playing? I have been told to use "Let's go Play" and "Let's go Work" so, Lets go play for swimming, walks, and what not play time, and then Lets go Work for training times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Oops lol that was a major typo.. and take and put the toy away and be done playing? lol that was just a jumble of words before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Well, unless you know a way to gather the stock up and put away, that won't work! LOL For instance, I just started Skip on 'That'll do'. So, the first time, I waited till he had a toy, then, I walked over, told him, that'll do, and at the same time put my fingers in his mouth behind toy so that it dropped out of his mouth, I then used the collar to bring him AWAY from the toy. Eventually, that'll do would make him drop the toy on his own, and then he eventually, with the same training, started coming to me. He is still only about 50/50 on this from a distance. It will take a little time, but once you start working stock, believe me, you will be very glad he has a good solid 'that'll do'! Just remember, that'll do is stopping whatever he is doing AND coming to you. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Duh lol didnt even think of that! ;D Well, thanks I'll work on that! That gives me a more difficult goal but who knows shes so darned smart It may not take long lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 You'll be shocked at how fast she catches on! BTW, what word do you use for recall? I only ask, because most none working dogs are taught come, or come here. But if you plan on working your dog one of the commands will be come bye, and if you have taught your dog come means to go to you, well, it won't be pretty! LOL Teach here for when you want her. You can say, that'll do-here. Some do, some don't. The idea is to keep commands as seperate as possible. And you never want to try dogs on "stock only" commands when they are not working stock. Such as come bye, away to me, walk up, etc. That'll do, lie down, stay, here, wait. Those are commands that can be used either or. And the goats would be fine! Lots of folks have BCs to herd their goats! But I would advise lots of lessons for you and the dog before you let her anywhere near the goats! Don't let her loose with them, and don't have them or her where she can see them. She will become obsessed and will herd them in her mind. And she will learn things she shouldn't ought to! They do that enough on their own WITH our diligence! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Thats another good point. I use Come.. but I had been thinking about it. I'll be using here from now on. I have heard a story about someone teaching their pup herding commands when playing fetch.. Everytime she commanded the dog would stop working and look for the ball.. So, I dont use any of those commands, partly because I dont even know what they mean (I am a HUGE newbie! lol) and mostly because I heard that story She has a pretty consistent, probably 95% distant down, sometimes she takes a few belly steps but mostly she just downs. I also use wait for the doors and gates as well as when I'm playing with my other dog, I'll tell Dally, down, wait and she'll down and wait until I say ok for her to go play with Kole again. I only have 2 goats, they're pets, companions for my horses. If I take Dally to the barn with me (when my horses and goats get here at school) the goats are there in the stall and/or pasture with them. If I bring her.. will this hinder her training? I really like having her with me at the barn right now (working other horses) and she does well, if she is exposed to them, while they are stalled or pastured, but not asked to work the goats will it hinder her sheep and eventually cattle training? The goats will not be on our property so she wont be able to sit and ponder what to do with them, but they will be at the barn and around when I ride my horses. If it will hinder her training I can keep her in the truck while the goats are around, being worked with or in the arena with me (out of sight) and then just let her out when I ride and they arent there. I also take them trail riding with me, if she and the goats go on a trail ride.. how will that effect the training? Will she be able to identify my goats.. and sheep? I was also told that only 2 wasnt enough, something to do with their herd instincts not being as strong.. My wether thinks he's a dog, so is always with me, but my doe is always within 5 feet of him, dunno if that helps or hinders? I'm looking for affordable training in the area to teach me and eventually to teach Dally, it amazes me how hard that is when this is a ranch area with sheep, cattle, goats etc bred EVERYWHERE on large acerage and alot of open rangeland. But she is only 5 months so she's got until this spring before being started on stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Sounds like Dally's training is going well already, my two pups are 7 months old and are just now getting pretty consistent on their downs, but still not their stays. You should have more than two sheep/goats otherwise I agree its hard to have herd instincts without a herd. My pups are expected to go everywhere on the ranch with me so are constantly exposed to the other animals and are expected to walk past the sheep pen with no lolly gagging unless they are told to go to work. Believe me getting them trained not to constantly herd the sheep from the outside of the pen took a lot of patience on both our parts. But being consistent about telling them that will do, and of course getting their minds on something else worked out nicely. For pups you need dog broke sheep, otherwise you just end up with a mess on your hands. I was lucky in having the two experienced dogs to dog break the sheep I bought this spring. My pups are worked in a round pen with the sheep very lightly right now, just learning the get around part and the that'll do, this is all I expect out of them right now as they are not ready mentally for anything else. As far as being around the goats hurting her herding future, I will tell you what happened with me last year. Our trainer gave us a couple of bottle lambs and I thought oh boy my dogs will have sheep to herd, one problem though the sheep followed me everywhere on the ranch including to and from the dog pens. When they finally got old enough to use my dogs would not get near them let alone herd them! (and we are talking about experienced herding dogs!) In their minds the "sheep" were dogs and not herding material. So I would be careful about teaching her that goats are friends to go trail riding with. I use the same commands herding and playing, but always let the dogs know whether it is play time or work time. If they are to go play and chase each other I just give them the command "that'll do, go play" even if I am just letting them out of the pens. When its work time they know it cause I will have my crook in my hand give them the commmand "time to work", believe me they all know the difference the minute I head for the pens. A trainer is the absolute best way to go in my thoughts, they have the experience and the sheep to get dally going. I would never have attempted pups on my own without all the experience I gained from the year with my trainer. And if I had my choice and she was not so far away now I would still be with her for this set of pups. Hope you can find a good trainer near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Do you think I'll always have to leave Dally away when I take the goats. I really dont want her to herd goats. She'll be cattle strictly once she's going. So, of course, she'll be started on sheep, but after that it'll be cattle, do you think that if I wait until she's started on sheep to let her around the goats she'll be able to be around them? I dunno, I'd really like her not to herd the goats at all.. and hope that, like horses, she'll know the differnece between my goats, those two specific goats and sheep/working goats. So, I take back using them... If she is not ever going to be allowed to herd these two goats, can she be around them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Alicia wrote: So, I take back using them... If she is not ever going to be allowed to herd these two goats, can she be around them?Dally may let you know, herself, once she turns on to stock. She might be so keen to work that you'll have to put them up. Also, if she's determined to work the goats, you don't want one to take exception and knock some of the confidence out of her. It's funny how young stockdogs can figure out that horses are off limits, and learn quickly to ignore them, and at the same time be so determined to work everything else --- sheep, cattle and goats. My trainer Anna's dogs are bred to work cattle, but they are naturally very keen to work sheep as well. (They ignore horses.) If Anna's stockdogs aren't working cows, they want to work sheep. I'm not sure it would be good for keen dogs like these to try to break them of wanting to work one specific type of stock. My first border collie started eyeing horses when she was five or six months old. A friend (who was an experienced trainer/handler) told me, "You need to start that dog on sheep. Not formal training --- the dog just needs to know that it's OK to get in there and move stock around. Then she'll understand that the horse is what's off limits. If all you do is correct her for trying to 'work' your horse, she could get the idea that you don't want her to work, period --- and I've seen a few dogs ruined that way." I'd be wary of sending a dog mixed signals --- no to horses, no to goats --- if you want her to be a super-keen worker at ten or twelve months on sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 My dogs also know horses are a no no and have become play buddies with my quarter horse. At first the pups really gave her the eye when we introduced them but after a couple of NO HORSE! commands they quit and now can safely be around her. Thank goodness she was an old hand at handling dogs and didn't mind the couple of nips they threw at her heels at first. They also have learned the neighbors Llamas are definitely off limits but the Llamas helped me in that way by turning on them when they got in with them by mistake and between my yelling the the llamas stomping it cured them quick of wanting to herd the funny looking "sheep". But since my dogs are all working dogs I myself would not let them around the goats unless it was to herd them. I would not want to confuse them too much or dampen their herding instincts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted November 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Well the goats, and my horsesa rent gonna be here for a few months So, when they do get here I'm just gonna keep her away from the goats. Leave it at that at least until she's started and can understand the difference without ruining her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Teach her how to relax without being confined. Start by doing things like watching the evening news with her leash under your foot. You want a pup that can eventaully be taught to turn the on button "Off" in non stock situations without having to be crated or kenneled. Makes for a nicer dog to live with! I'd also start socializing her to the sounds and sights of some stockwork from a safe distance. For example I let my pups (until they turn on) hand around outside the fence while we work the chutes. Sometimes I tie them up with a bone to chew on. Reward them occassionally with a word or pat, and ask your hands/helpers to do so as well. You want them to learn from early on that banging/yelling/people working is not something to be feared. LenaJo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 She's actually a pretty laid back pup. If I'm watchin TV, she'll lounge on the couch, or If I'm reading she lays on her bed. That's an Idea.. I'll hae to find somewhere that I can do that as I am new to the area and dont have any stock myself. I'm gonna be getting a hold of the Rodeo Team here at MSU, they'll probably let me bring her to get used to it all. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amc Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Alicia, I've been following your journey with Dally and want to congratulate you on the work you've already done with her as well as your willingness to ask, read and learn. She sounds like a great little pup and I hope you'll have a great working future. We have 3 goats, a doe and her doeling and a fat wether who up until about a month ago was my horse's pasture pal. We have seven working BCs ranging in age from 10 months to almost 14 years; I've only had my horse for a year and a half, so most of the dogs were not raised around him. Our two youngest dogs, Penny who's 10 months and Dave, 19 months, would set themselves on the goats if allowed. Dave is my pup, raised from infancy, and he learned as a youngun not to work my horse; he's been trail riding with me since he was old enough to keep up, but I don't take the goat out riding. Dave is just about to the point where I might be able to call him off the goat (I started him seriously on sheep about 3 weeks ago) but I would probably have to catch him. Penny, the baby, would work anything including my horse, given the chance, so she never gets the chance! My husband has taken her to sheep a few times and it won't be long before she gets started formally, I predict. All our other dogs are Open level (or retired) and ALL of them would work the goats if asked but will ignore them if told to do so. My two Open dogs also work cattle quite happily. So, I guess my message is similar to what others have noted: get her started on sheep when she's ready and then teach her that she works when and what you say, but meanwhile protect her from herself and keep her out of trouble. There's a real good chance you'll eventually be able to have her with you, your horse and your pet goats, not working them. She can learn the difference. Good luck, and keep posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Thank amc! I'm real proud of my lil girl she's made her training easy because she is so smart, willing and focused on me. If I even drop my voice a bit she knows and rarely does whatever she was doing again. SHe's very smart Thank you for the words of encouragement. I am sure once she gets started she'll be able to tell the difference. I am considering getting a few dog broke sheep once she's old enough as I having a suprisingly hard time finding somewhere to start and work. I'll probably wait until she's old enough to start though so in the next 4-6mths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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