Have someone else start your dog?

[kelpiegirl]

hi all:

 

Here is the scenario- I have a long drive to get to a trainer's place. I have seen how tough it can be to only put a dog on sheep once a week, and actually get anywhere (in the beginning at least). For those of you in the know- what do you all think about sending a dog to a trainer to be started?

 

Thanks

Julie

[Pipedream Farm]

If you like the way this trainer trains dogs and you trust they know that they are doing, it would be a good way to give your dog a head start (this is especially true if you have not trained dogs). Once your dog is started you will learn faster.

 

Mark

[Little Bo Boop]

Well I'm not 'in the know' but I was kind of in the same situation as you, a long haul to the trainer/sheep. At first I would never have even considered sending a dog off to a trainer, nightmares of my dog being abused etc...after spending time with our trainer, well now I would have no problem sending him a dog. I don't think I know a person who loves dogs more than he does LOL. We were fortunate in that we have a few acres, and our trainer has loaned us some sheep. We still go to his place every other weekend or so. If you can't have sheep, and arent't able to make it to the trainers that often, I would think sending the dog off to be started would be a good idea. I know if you're like me, you want to do it all yourself, but sometimes it's hard to make things work. I would just make sure you have a good trainer, and one you trust, for your own peace of mind.

[kelpiegirl]

My main thing, is that I am the limiting reagent here- I don't know what I need to know to actually be useful to my dog. She knows more than I already, and I don't want either she or I frustrated....

Of course, I don't know how how I will be with her gone for a while....

Julie

[Little Bo Boop]

Well I normally would say green animal (horse, dog etc) green person, bad mix. I had my reservations about that as well. As a matter of fact I even suggested a few times that our trainer take my female for 30 days,as I was scared of messing her up. He actually encouraged me to keep at it,and said that I;d get more out of her than he could. I've kept at it, and what's really helped is I'm able to email him with any problems or questions, he responds right away, that and going to his place for evaluations of our progress. I think the biggest thing is, don't get in hurry (slow and steady wins the race) don't be afraid to ask for help, read a ton, and hey just relax and enjoy the process.

[mjk05]

I would do it, assuming of course that you are sure the trainer is someone you'd entrust your dog to. They can help you get past those first stages of training, tidying up basic work, teaching basic commands etc, and then you can get going on more interesting stuff that's easier/less frustrating to train on a weekly basis.

 

But then you will need some intensive training with the dog to get your act together. If you can keep taking classes once a week while your dog is training, I think that would be useful. You could also ask about working someone else's dog, to get a feel of what you're aiming for.

 

To be honest, having struggled through 12 months of monthly training sessions (if lucky)myself, I think there's still a lot of benefit to battling along and doing it yourself. You do learn a lot more about the basics that way, and maybe also about your dog. But I'm sure you could pick it all up later, starting your next dog (once you have some experience).

 

So either way, there's pros and cons. But messing up your first dog yourself is a once in a lifetime experience, I highly recommend it

[Black Watch Debatable]

[Kelpiegirl, I sent you a PM.]

 

I've used both approaches, and may use both again, depending on the dog, my work/study schedule, etc.

 

mjk05 wrote:

To be honest, having struggled through 12 months of monthly training sessions (if lucky) myself, I think there's still a lot of benefit to battling along and doing it yourself. You do learn a lot more about the basics that way, and maybe also about your dog.

This is what I did with my first dog. I know that a lot of people say it's best to start with a trained dog... but "battling along and doing it myself" with Bracken (who took me to Open) was an experience beyond price.

 

Good girl, Bracken.

[Dixie_Girl]

Jackson was going once a month to the clinic my trainer held. I didn't feel this was enough, so I arranged once a week private. It costs about the same except instead of 1/2 a day it is only for 1 hour, BUT that is just with Jackson and I as her focus. At first, she was taking Jackson in because I was too nervous. But when I started working with him, when I made a mistake it was immediately corrected. He is far ahead of me but I am catching up quick! And the satisfaction of me and him doing this together is beyond description. My next pup will be way different in that I will start out knowing more than it! Ha Ha! Plus I will have sheep. Lots of people do that, as far as letting others start their dogs. I know two guys, one has a pup that needs to be started the other an older pup that just needs to be worked more, like fine tuning. One with the fine tuning has more time than the one with the young pup so they switched dogs until these things were accomplished! Can you believe men actually thought of this? LOL I bet it was their wives who suggested it! :cool:

[muddy bob]

I've done it both ways. When I realized how nice this young one is, I wanted to do right by him so I sent him to someone I knew well. I still went out there once a week to work with him and the instructor. My work gets to be more of a hassle when the weather gets nice. More time away from home and physical exhaustion would have prevented me from giving him the best he deserved. It was only a month. He was worked with twice daily and when I got him back he had a nice solid start that I could never have given in that amount of time. A few months later he did another month.

It took me ages to get my other dog to where he is at now (granted she did not have the same talent).

This is not the same as purchasing a trained dog. I was working him once a week with my instructor filling me in on what they'd done since my last visit.

For me it was the best route. I don't want to sound like I think my dog walks on water but he sure is nice. It give credit to all the help we got in the beginning.

 

Muddy

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I've done it before. I needed a useful dog quickly and that's what I got. Unfortunately, the dog in question was one of those rare dogs that gave his soul once and forever. Although he'd work for me in a useful and even sometimes brilliant manner, his attitude made him a VERY difficult dog to learn with.

 

For a while after this, I would have said NO, don't send your first dog off to get trained. But I've come back around and realize that you have to do what works for you. There's also lots of different approaches if you work with someone local - you can have them work with your dog past the first phase when you'd be standing twiddling your thumbs anyway, then work with you together, then get your dog driving confidently, then work with you again, and so on.

 

Don't be influenced by your perception that the dog might be suffering somehow from long stretches between sheep sessions. I've seen dogs do very well, who literally did not see a sheep more than once every six months at clinics. These dogs don't advance very quickly, granted, but the quality of schooling when it does happen, more than makes up for the lack of quantity.

 

I'm toying with the idea again, as my youngster Ann is fully capable of holding up her end of chores here with just a teeny bit more training, and this week has shown that I really need a second dog (Ben is sick again ). But I can't find the time to put into her training, with moving and running my business and the farm and homeschooling. Next month, maybe, but there always seems to be something . . .I don't know.

 

One thing is true - you'll learn a lot by training your own dog. And whether you have your dog trained or train your dog yourself (with help), you will still have to learn most of the techniques your trainer will use to train your dog.

 

People use the green horse analogy a lot but I've found it's not quite the same. Once a horse is "well broken" you don't have to keep re-teaching it to respond to basic cues. But with a dog working livestock, the things that the dog had to learn in the beginning may re-surface each time it faces a new situation. You have to learn to work the dog through his particular weaknesses and that can be a surprise and a disappointment for many novices who take over a fully or mostly trained dog.

[Pipedream Farm]

I kind of got to do both when I got started. I had Starr as a pup that I trained myself (with lessons, of course). She was almost trial ready for novice novice when I got Moss, a fully trained open dog. Having him taught me a lot about simply handling a dog. He was also a huge help in enabling me to see what was correct so I could tell easier when Starr was wrong. Having a trained dog also helps give you that little boost of confidence --esp. if things don't go so well with the inexperienced dog. If having an additional trained dog is not an option, I'd definitely consider having a trainer you trust get it started. In the beginning, it's really helpful to the dog to have lots of short sessions. Other than Moss, I've trained all my dogs myself from pups. I definitely know about wanting to put in the work yourself. However, if you're really busy right now or having trouble getting enough sessions in, it might be better to get him started with your trainer. Do you have access to sheep at all in between lessons?

Renee

[Kelliwic Border Collies]

I only have three Border Collies but I have done all three methods: started my first pup "myself" (that is, lessons with an instructor), bought a started dog, and my third, young dog is currently out for training.

 

I'd love to do it myself and have that pride in my accomplishment and also learn how to be a better handler, but my personal experience with my individual dogs is opposite to Rebecca's advice. My progress just creeps forward with one, one-hour lesson per week and no access to sheep in between (though I'm looking for opportunities!). Whether it's me or my dogs (probably both), it's tough to maintain, nevermind improve, because they are just too keen when we arrive at our lesson (regardless of trying to wear them down before or whatever). Your mileage may vary.

 

Since (eventually) getting on a trial course has become important to me, and since my financial situation is a little better these days, I decided to stop fooling around and have the young dog started RIGHT--"right" to me being both the person who is training her and having her worked 5-6 days a week. I think the solid foundation will be very important to our working/trialling future together, and if things go well with the trainer (and with me, when the dog comes back), it's likely that I'll send her back again in six months or a year. Meanwhile, I'm carrying on with my weekly lessons with the other dog.

 

Just one VERY humble wanna-be's experience.

[TotallyTerry]

I have always sent my pups out for training. I am not a good trainer and have bad timing....and no physical agility.

 

I do not want my dog to have to learn in spite of me. Would always wonder if it was my fault or the dog was not good enough.

 

Having a trainer train your dog just lets you know what your dog is capable of doing. It does not mean that your dog will work that well for you because to be perfectly frank, your timing and

ability will not be nearly as good as the trainers...if you have chosen the right trainer.

 

I would also disagree with Rebecca, I don't think her dog was one of the rare dogs that would never work as well for anyone else, he probably just works best with a great handler.

 

I've had pups sent for training and bought trained dogs. I have bonded with all of them and there is no difference.

 

A good friend of mine once said that although she is glad that her dogs love her, she is glad that they love to work sheep more.

 

I like that idea because if something should happen to me, I know that my dogs would soon work for someone else and continue to lead a great life in their new home. (And I have already selected their new homes)

[Barron's Mom]

Sorry, New to this site and trying to get the picture to post