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outrun too wide?


Liz P
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Is it possible to make a dog frustrated by asking it to do and outrun that is too wide? I know there is a balance between wide enough to not disturb the sheep and so wide that the dog is just wasting energy, but at this point my dog needs to be wider. This past week I've been following Carol's notes on casting the dog and I've also been teaching her to stay to the outside of obstacles (panels, cones, pens, etc) during her outrun. There is definite improvement already but we have a ways to go before she is ready to move up to PN.

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Just a novice opinion, but I'd be careful about pushing a dog out too wide too fast, and personally I'd never teach a dog to run around an obstacle. I believe the traditional wisdom is later on it's easier to widen the dog a little than bring it in.

 

To me a perfect outrun is when the dogs angles out from the handler's feet and casts out when it feels the sheep, and this sort of outrun isn't going to be had by teaching the dog to run an artificial pattern.

 

On the other hand, I've done a bit of clerking recently and watched dog after dog square out from the handler's feet and run the fence line without deduction.

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Novice also but I have had and still do the same problem. But have made big strides by downing my dog about 30 to 40 yards from the sheep and walking to where the sheep are and then send him.

From there you can see what he looks like coming in and force him wider when he get to the sheep by running at him with a hat are something and waving it and pushing him out. If the dog looks like he is doing ok let him go around and you drop back and fetch. I was unable to do this early on because my dog would get up on me before I got to the sheep. But after getting the down right this has change everything for me. Just a beginner talking but it has worked.

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I forced my first dog out too early and when he matured he dove for the fence on one side. When I tried to correct it I muddied the waters so that he ended up with a too-wide flank on that side that ended shallow at the top and a buzz into the sheep more often than not. Sheesh.

 

My baby dog is definitely too tight but I'm approaching it as a maturation problem since she's just turned a year. She's a biddable little thing and I could definitely widen her out mechanically. But I'd prefer she simply improve her feel for pace and balance at this stage and give to the sheep because it feels right to her.

 

I'm doing lots of walking and stopping and letting the sheep drift quietly. If we flank and she does come in too tight, I let her know verbally (assuming I catch it when she has enough time to correct it), and give her another chance to do it right. But I don't hammer on it.

 

My observation has been that the wider flanks come - and the confidence over greater distances - naturally this way. It would be nice if we did nursery next season but I'd prefer for it to come without pressuring her, and have a solid dog I can count on for the next 12 years.

 

Good luck!

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