Gizmo is driving us crazy.

[ejano]

Please, please do not "reprimand" him for going potty in the house. As was said above, he is only a BABY. And he has not had the advantages of growing up with a dog family to teach him things. Would you reprimand a human baby for going potty in his diapers? Of course not. It would be unreasonable and cruel. It is the same thing. What you need to do with a baby dog is similar to what you do with a baby human: you PREVENT it from being able to go potty where it is inappropriate. That takes constant supervision and/ or X-pen or crate training. It also is not appropriate to reprimand him for trying to play with another dog. He needs to play and doesn't understand why he is being scolded. This is only going to confuse him greatly. Protect Angel from him by not allowing him to be around her if he is hassling her.

 

Please don't take what we say as criticism. You are a remarkable kid, and I admire your trying so hard with this little guy. Please know that all of us here are very, very glad that you are posting here for assistance, and we want to help as much as we can. If you can re-home him, I bet you anything that we can help you to find an awesome home for him - a place with one of us, where he will be treated very well his whole life. Ask for our help with this and we will step up.

Please keep posting here, and know that we all support you and want to help.

Sending you and Gizmo lots of good luck mojo....

D'Elle

 

Hey D'Elle, You know, I didn't even know what an X-Pen (puppy play pen) was before I got my puppy...we ended up not using one, though the breeder had the pups in them for awhile, but ours were 9 weeks and really big bruisers (thanks to goats milk, cottage cheese and liver) when they came to us so they went right to crates...and a fenced in area in the back yard which they promptly blasted through...so they got the whole fenced in yard --

 

Can you find a link online? How long does the average pup usually stay in them?

[sixx]

Another thing to consider is that if he doesn't get proper socialization with humans and other dogs, he can become aggressive towards either. This will be a very crucial time in his life. Introducing him to 10 new people a day. Allowing him to play with other puppies in a puppy class when he's old enough. These are really important things to consider if you decide to keep Gizmo... do you have the time and resources available to do this?

 

I would like to second that we are here to help and be a good support. We can help you with any questions you have. I am concerned for this little guy. I care. The thing is, he needs lots of structure and patience, which doesn't seem to be happening in your household. Please don't reprimand him. This can backfire and cause him to be an introverted dog who is fearful or he could just shut down, not making him a wanted companion.

 

I wish you luck in whatever road you decide to take. I once tried to "own" a puppy when I was 16 years old. I thought I was old enough. I was wrong. I ended up getting a puppy from a puppy mill because I didn't know better. In the end I had to put my new puppy to sleep. He had gotten bit while he was at the breeders (didn't notice the scars under the fur). It caused brain damage and it progressed. It was very traumatic...

[BabyLucky]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was tired and upset when I posted the reprimand thing. I couldn't think of the right words, so I used that. We don't really reprimand him. He have him sniff it, and tell him no. Then we put him outside. That's what we did, along with crate training, with my dog, and she hasn't had an accident in a little under nine years. (She's a halloween dog, we got her around Christmas, she stopped having accidents in the house at around this time of year. I think). We hold him back when he goes for Angel, and then I play with him. I really don't know how to show him not to bother Angel, I know he's just playing, but it really irritates her, She's nipped him twice, along with plenty of startlingly aggressive growls and barks. Alex locks both of them in his room while he ignores them and plays COD. I usually go save Angel, but one time he almost didn't let me. And again with the potty training. He will hold it for hours. He can stay outside all day long. Then pee or poo as soon as he comes in the house with no new additions outside.

 

 

 

My mom is way in to the puppy. She had jokingly called him her third child up until a couple of weeks ago. She plays with him, cuddles him. She really does like him. She's just been feeling ill and has had two surgeries since we got him.

 

 

And now Ashley wants to bring him to meet her mother. Would that be okay? He'd be gone two-three days tops. I don't think it would but I'm not really a puppy expert. I've tried to stall telling her exactly when my dad is going to cash his paycheck so that we can get his shots because I'm not really sure if she should bring him.

 

 

I bring him on daily walks around the block, just to get him some exercise and he loves them. I tried putting my dog's collar and leash on him, but she threw a fit and started howling like she was dying, so I picked her up so that she could come to, and she calmed down after a few minutes. But Gizmo wouldn't budge, I think he was scared. So I removed my dog's things and returned them to her, and he just goes 'naked'. I'm thinking about giving my dog's collar to him and regifting her old one back to her, she gets excited whenever she sees it, while if she sees the blue collar off, she just shrugs it off.

 

 

I'm trying not to take these things as criticism, but I sadly, take things personal a lot. So during some of the things I said, I was angry, so I apologize. I try not to get angry and take things the right way, but it's hard for me. And I thank you so much for your help. And thank you ejano and Mary, that made me feel good. I feel so immature after thinking about some of the things i've been griping about. Also, sorry, I hate that I expect people to understand the whole story when I don't give it. I do that so much, and it embarrasses me.

 

 

I've talked with my parents about either taking the puppy or having him go to a different home, and they didn't really respond. That was... whenever I posted last, and they still haven't really responded. Thank you all so much for understanding and for your help. I'm happy that someone from a different forum directed me here after I posted my finding of Gizmo two months ago.

 

 

Sorry, I know it's long, but I always have a lot to say.

[Pippin's person]

If your pup hasn't been vaccinated, I wouldn't take him off your property.

 

Since you found him as a newborn, you don't know if he got any colostrom from his mother, which would provide some immunity to disease (if she was immune). In particular, puppies are pretty susceptible to parvo and distemper, both of which he could pick up from just walking around.

 

Life is about calculated risks, of course, and you can't wrap a pup in bubble wrap, but given his start, you and your family have a special situation with regard to health (emotional and physical).

 

From what you describe, your brother does not sound prepared to take care of a dog, much less a young puppy. If your mother is attached to the pup as you describe, I strongly second those who've recommended coming up with a family strategy for raising Gizmo. Even if she can't be involved due to her health, she is presumably a voice of authority for your brother.

 

You did an excellent job of moving Gizmo from infancy to babyhood. That's no easy task.

 

Getting him from babyhood through adolescence and into adulthood is a different kettle of fish. Border Collie pups are really not for the faint of heart--and yours has the special challenge of not being raised by his mother and with his littermates. Adolescence in particular can cause you to want to pull your hair out.

 

Hang in there and be strong about being a family team to provide Gizmo with the structure and training he needs.

 

Don't worry too much about Angel--she may sound fierce, but if she hasn't done damage to him, she most likely won't. Soon enough (4-5 months), she'll make it much clearer to him that he has to respect her. She's teaching him now, something he didn't learn from his mom. Be sure and give her some space away from him, but you can still let them interact so that he can learn doggie manners.

 

As for the housetraining. If he's not eliminating outside, don't leave him out there. What has worked with our puppies is to not let them have any free run around time until *after* they've gone. In other words, keep Gizmo crated unless you are supervising him directly. Take him outside everytime you get him out of the crate. Don't let him play or do other things until he's eliminated. Puppies pee about 10x more often than you think they will, so you really do have to be vigilant.

 

As they say, practice makes perfect. The more he has the opportunity to go in the house, the better he'll get at it. You can't really trust a puppy to know about eliminating until at least 9 months (which would be about the same time you said Angel stopped having accidents)--so, for the next 7-8 months, you'll need to manage most of Gizmo's time and make sure he isn't in a position of needing to go and not being in the place where you want him to go.

[juliepoudrier]

BabyLucky,

With regards to showing Gizmo where he's had an accident and telling him "no," I don't believe you're really teaching him anything. Modern housetraining techniques have long since moved on from that method, mainly because dogs generally can't make the connection between and action they completed earlier and a correction that comes at some later time. It's just as likely that what Gizmo is learning is that you don't want him to sniff his own messes, since he's being corrected as soon as he sniffs it. As others have said, you need to try to get parental intervention and get everyone on the same page regarding Gizmo's housetraining. If other family members let him in to wander around and go potty at will, then he's learning that's acceptable behavior. All of you need to work hard to set him up for successful behaviors and limit any opportunities for bad behaviors. He should never be loose in the house unless someone is sure he has just peed and pooped *outside.* Even then, you need to watch him like a hawk. Baby puppies can go as often as every 15 minutes (usually peeing). Don't assume that because you don't see piles in the yard that he hasn't gone potty out there--obviously you might not even notice where he's peed. But all of this advice won't help if other members of the family continuously undermine the process by allowing him to repeat his mistakes over and over.

 

As for Ashley taking him to meet her mother, Robin has made a very important point. His immune status is completely uncertain, and even if he did get colostrum from his mom, his immunity probably isn't as robust as that of a pup who was raised by mom past day 1. He's also had no vaccines. Every time you take him off your property you are putting him at grave risk of picking up something deadly, namely parvo. I have friends who have lost *vaccinated* pups to parvo, so he really shouldn't be going anywhere until he's had at least one vaccine, if not two. It would be so heartbreaking for you to have put this much effort into getting him this far only to have him succumb to something because of a little carelessness now.

 

I second what Robin said about Angel too. Gizmo has missed a very important part of puppyhood--socialization with his mom and littermates. The interactions he would have had with his mom and litter would have taught him a lot about proper behavior around other dogs. He got none of that, and he really needs to learn social dog behaviors. Right now, Angel is his only hope in that regard. That's not to say that you should let him harrass her endlessly, but do allow her to correct him so that he learns some of the limits that go with interacting with other dogs.

 

Would it be possible to have your mom read this thread? I understand that you are in a position of no power (being the youngest) within your family when it comes to who does what and how Gizmo is raised. Perhaps if one of the adults (your parents) were able to read the recommendations that have been made here, they would be willing to support you in trying to do the right thing for Gizmo. It's worth a shot anyway.

 

Good luck.

 

J.

[rushdoggie]

FWIW, BabyLucky, when I responded to you earlier in the thread I assumed you were an adult. Your problems are a bit compounded being only 14, and I feel bad that I came off so harsh. It wasn't my intention to hurt your feelings.

 

I still believe that having your brother be the puppies caretaker is a bad idea. Like Sixx, I have had a lot of foster doggies and probably 75% of the time they ended up in rescue because they didn't have structure and consistency as puppies and when they got older this resulted in a wild out of control dog.

 

I'm sorry that your folks don't seem to be taking your concerns seriously.

[ejano]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was tired and upset when I posted the reprimand thing. I couldn't think of the right words, so I used that. We don't really reprimand him. He have him sniff it, and tell him no. Then we put him outside. That's what we did, along with crate training, with my dog, and she hasn't had an accident in a little under nine years. (She's a halloween dog, we got her around Christmas, she stopped having accidents in the house at around this time of year. I think). We hold him back when he goes for Angel, and then I play with him. I really don't know how to show him not to bother Angel, I know he's just playing, but it really irritates her, She's nipped him twice, along with plenty of startlingly aggressive growls and barks. Alex locks both of them in his room while he ignores them and plays COD. I usually go save Angel, but one time he almost didn't let me. And again with the potty training. He will hold it for hours. He can stay outside all day long. Then pee or poo as soon as he comes in the house with no new additions outside.

 

 

 

My mom is way in to the puppy. She had jokingly called him her third child up until a couple of weeks ago. She plays with him, cuddles him. She really does like him. She's just been feeling ill and has had two surgeries since we got him.

 

 

And now Ashley wants to bring him to meet her mother. Would that be okay? He'd be gone two-three days tops. I don't think it would but I'm not really a puppy expert. I've tried to stall telling her exactly when my dad is going to cash his paycheck so that we can get his shots because I'm not really sure if she should bring him.

 

 

I bring him on daily walks around the block, just to get him some exercise and he loves them. I tried putting my dog's collar and leash on him, but she threw a fit and started howling like she was dying, so I picked her up so that she could come to, and she calmed down after a few minutes. But Gizmo wouldn't budge, I think he was scared. So I removed my dog's things and returned them to her, and he just goes 'naked'. I'm thinking about giving my dog's collar to him and regifting her old one back to her, she gets excited whenever she sees it, while if she sees the blue collar off, she just shrugs it off.

 

 

I'm trying not to take these things as criticism, but I sadly, take things personal a lot. So during some of the things I said, I was angry, so I apologize. I try not to get angry and take things the right way, but it's hard for me. And I thank you so much for your help. And thank you ejano and Mary, that made me feel good. I feel so immature after thinking about some of the things i've been griping about. Also, sorry, I hate that I expect people to understand the whole story when I don't give it. I do that so much, and it embarrasses me.

 

 

I've talked with my parents about either taking the puppy or having him go to a different home, and they didn't really respond. That was... whenever I posted last, and they still haven't really responded. Thank you all so much for understanding and for your help. I'm happy that someone from a different forum directed me here after I posted my finding of Gizmo two months ago.

 

 

Sorry, I know it's long, but I always have a lot to say.

 

 

Hey, we've all been 14... you've done a good job of explaining the situation.

 

Robin and Julie are on the money. If he's not had his shots, he shouldn't be "visiting". Everybody thinks Gizmo is really cute, so nobody wants anything to happen to him.

 

Let's work on the heeling -- he's eight weeks old now? There are different ways of teaching a puppy to heel and I'm sure other folks will chime in. The one I like best, and sure wish I'd used, is to teach a pup to heel beside you without the leash, then gradually introduce them to the leash, once you've given them the idea that trotting them along side you is a good thing...do this in an area where you sure he's not going to come to any harm. Now is the time to start to teaching him a solid recall as well...

 

Hope your Mom feels better soon!

 

Liz

[urge to herd]

I'd say you're showing remarkable maturity and concern. Good on you for keeping up and not leaving in a huff, but giving us more information and telling us how things are going. You're doing a great job!

 

I hope your family can come to an agreement about who is in charge of Gizmo, and about how he's to be raised. And that everyone meets their commitment to this little guy, and to you, who have worked so hard for him.

 

Good luck, and I hope your mom feels better soon!

 

Ruth

[Star]

I'll "third" the comment to allow Angel to set the limits with Gizmo. It can be disturbing at times. I remember when Seven (our older dog) started getting unhappy with Star she would yowl and snarl like nothing you've ever heard before--mouth wide open with her upper lip pulled back. I'd never seen this out of Seven before, she's such a gentle dog, it scared the daylights out of me! If I didn't know her better, I'dve thought she was going to bite Star's head off. But she never even put her mouth on Star. It was certainly a viscious looking display and, it worked! Star dropped to the ground and rolled over! A few more of those and Star learned what she couldn't get away with anymore. Also do make sure Angel has enough one on one attention from you so she doesn't feel too put upon.

[D'Elle]

Hey D'Elle, You know, I didn't even know what an X-Pen (puppy play pen) was before I got my puppy...we ended up not using one, though the breeder had the pups in them for awhile, but ours were 9 weeks and really big bruisers (thanks to goats milk, cottage cheese and liver) when they came to us so they went right to crates...and a fenced in area in the back yard which they promptly blasted through...so they got the whole fenced in yard --

 

Can you find a link online? How long does the average pup usually stay in them?

You can buy them online but then you probably pay shipping and they are heavy. I got mine from Craig's List. Used, they are not expensive at all. I think I paid $15 for one of them and got the other one for free because the people were moving and gave it to me when I told them I do rescue work. How long the pup stays in it depends on a lot of factors, and cannot be answered that easily.

[D'Elle]

Baby Lucky, Hang in there! You are doing a great job so far and are a very mature kid. My hat's off to you. Please remember that we say things here because we really, really want Gizmo to have a good life. We are all very concerned with border collies and how they are raised and how they live. We love them. And all of us admire you for what you are doing so far. I second the suggestion to ask your Mom to read this thread. Maybe it would help her to understand how things are for you and how things need to be for the best interests of Gizmo. Maybe you could just email her the link to this thread?

Best of luck, and keep us posted...

D'Elle

[BabyLucky]

Okay, first of all, thank you for um... what's the word... show concern I suppose, for my mom. I can possibly have her read it, though I don't really know if she'd agree with my posting of these issues. She usually just rolls her eyes when I want her to read something like this. But, I'll try.

 

 

And alright, I'll keep him not leaving in mind. Whoops though, Ashley brought him to the park today... On the couple of times I've accompanied Ashley and him on a short walk, he's either chased Angel or stayed near our feet. Could that be a good start for heeling? We're getting him vaccinated Friday, I hope after Ashley leaves without him, I don't really want him to go there, I think it will be upsetting to him and I don't want him to have his behavior get worse than it has been lately. (I understand he's just a puppy, puppies are monsters.)

 

 

Gizmo know's he's in trouble when he potty's in the house. And he's actually starting to let us know if he has to go potty. He'll whine and go near one of the doors. But only for a second, then he's off to the living room where he does most of it. And as for Angel, what i'd meant was she stopped for sure having accidents in the house, but when she was around four months she had almost completely stopped. At least that's what my mom tells me.

 

 

 

And rushdoggie, It's fine, really! I understand that you were just trying to help Gizmo have the best life, and had I been an adult, the situation may have been worse (My experiance with some select adults in my family is, that once they've been told something, they stick with that explanation instead of the truth.). But it's fine, I need to stop being such a softy, hehe. But, again, it's fine.

 

 

 

I hadn't at all thought about him not having colestrum (right?). I'd read that it's vital for them to have that when he was just a couple weeks old, but i'd not thought about it since. We kind of figure the herders' didn't realize that the mother was having her pups, kind of a "Let's go Kip!" "But boss, I can't leave the puppy." "Come on Kip!" But of course, dogs can't talk...

 

 

Thank you all for your help and support. Really, it means a lot to me.

 

P.S. My brother doesn't really listen to my mom or my dad... though he does listen to my dad a bit more. Mainly cause my dad is scary when he's mad, like, he's made Alex cry a couple of times these past two years... But my dad is also the, roll his eyes figure it out yourself, type of person. Though, he does help me with trying to get Alex to take care of Gizmo.

[Alchemist]

I want to echo what others have said: I'm really impressed by your maturity and your dedication to Gizmo. I have a 15-year-old and a 19-year-old son, and you're showing a LOT more maturity than either of them. That having been said... I can't imagine either of them possessing what it takes to successfully raise a Border collie pup. Not even six years from now. You probably have some time to spend with Gizmo over the summer, which is great, but he'll still be a puppy this fall, when you're back in school, and you may find he's getting in a lot of trouble.

 

Your situation sounds tough. An older brother (with girlfriend) who has taken on way more responsibility than he should with Gizmo. I doubt he has the time, or the resources. He may well soon be moving out of your house when he finds a job - will he earn enough to rent a place that will allow him to keep a pet? Will he have the time to exercise him? The finances to pay for his vet bills?

 

It sounds as if your mother has had her hands full as well, with two surgeries in the last two months.

 

Please don't allow your brother or your girlfriend to take Gizmo anywhere until the vet says he's sufficiently immunized!!! As others have said, he's at greater risk, not having acquired immunities from his mother. When I was a girl we had a puppy who died from distemper (despite having been immunized). It's not the sort of thing I would wish on my worst enemy. I try not to interfere with other people, but when I see people out in a public place with a young puppy, I do stick my neck out and warn them of the possible consequences. Apart from the risk of disease, puppies are also at high risk of getting attacked by another dog. Even if a puppy is lucky enough not to be harmed, one attack can make a pup fearful of other dogs for the rest of its life. This fear can be manifested as aggressiveness. No one enjoys walking an aggressive dog, so they get left in the back yard, where they are bored and annoy neighbors with their barking. Eventually they end up in animal shelters. Also, when you do start to take Gizmo out, I would not allow him off a leash. He'll just have to learn to get used to it. In no time he'll be running faster than you can keep up with, and he doesn't know not to run in front of a car.

 

It is a two-edged sword. Gizmo is at high risk of contracting disease; but he's also at risk of developing bad habits from having been raised without any littermates. Puppies really need the interaction with other puppies if they are to grow into well-socialized dogs who get along well with other dogs. The best bet would be to find him a playmate (or playmates) of the same age who have been immunized. They will play with each other the way puppies do, biting and chewing on each other with rough-and-tumble until one lets the other know that that bite was too hard. This is a tall order, I know. But it's the best way for puppies to develop bite inhibition. Without it, you could end up with an adult dog with unpleasant "mouthing" habits. If you can't find someone with a pup the same age, see if you can sign him up for a "puppy class" when he's sufficiently immunized. You can check with your local parks and recreation to see if they have some good ones *for puppies only* that don't cost an arm and a leg. You will probably need to sign up in advance, so start looking now. Good classes will fill quickly.

 

As others have mentioned, approaches to housebreaking a dog have changed A LOT over the years. I see great signs that Gizmo is starting to let you know that he wants to be let out to pee or poop. You have to be vigilant to read them IMMEDIATELY because by the time puppies realize they need to go, it's just like a toddler being toilet-trained: when they realize they need to go, it's almost too late, and they need to go NOW. You need to let Gizmo know this is the right thing to do by responding instantly. And then rewarding him when he does pee or poop outside.

 

A good source for the beginning steps of housebreaking, crate-training, and chew-toy training a puppy (among other things) is available in a free online text, by Dr. Ian Dunbar: http://www.dogstarda...g/raising-puppy . My only caution with this book is that he does tend to take the view that if you make a mistake, you could be ruining your dog for life. (I think this is because he's a vet and has seen too many dogs get euthanized for lack of appropriate training and socialization). Fortunately most dogs are more resilient than this. Apart from this "slant", he offers some excellent advice in puppy rearing.

 

I wish you the best of luck with this. I think you're doing great things with Gizmo, and I know you'll carefully weigh everyone's advice about finding a home for Gizmo (while he's still a baby) where he can be provided with a consistent set of rules by owners who will ensure he has an ideal life.

[Alchemist]

Meant to add: talk your mother into investing in some good enzymatic cleaner to use wherever Gizmo has accidents in the house. Otherwise tiny remnant of pee or poop just signal to a dog that this is the place to go! Regular cleaners just don't work as well as a cleaner specially formulated for dogs.

[Laurae]

^^ Excellent couple of posts!

[mja]

He will hold it for hours. He can stay outside all day long. Then pee or poo as soon as he comes in the house with no new additions outside.

 

 

Your puppy may be more 'housebroken' than you think, he just has it backwards. If he spends hours out side without urinating or defecating than does so when he is in the house, the yard is his space and he does not want to mess in his space. I have a young dog that spent all day in a very large yard but than would eliminate in the house after I got home. I was slow on the uptake and finally realized I needed to walk her outside the yard before coming into the house and that solved the problem. Of course keeping Gizmo crated or confined while in the house will also work very well if you respond fast enough to his requests to go outside ie whining, barking, panting. Good luck to you.

[BabyLucky]

Your puppy may be more 'housebroken' than you think, he just has it backwards. If he spends hours out side without urinating or defecating than does so when he is in the house, the yard is his space and he does not want to mess in his space. I have a young dog that spent all day in a very large yard but than would eliminate in the house after I got home. I was slow on the uptake and finally realized I needed to walk her outside the yard before coming into the house and that solved the problem. Of course keeping Gizmo crated or confined while in the house will also work very well if you respond fast enough to his requests to go outside ie whining, barking, panting. Good luck to you.

 

 

Oh... hmm.. I hadn't really thought about it that way... It's kind of bad, though, seeing as we were planning on having him as an inside dog. (Long walks, plenty of outside play time, but sleeping inside and such.)

[juliepoudrier]

BabyLucky,

I don't think it means that Gizmo has to be an outside dog. It means *you* (entire family) have to reset his paradigm so that he understands that outdoors is where he goes potty. He's gotten away with going in the house so many times that he just doesn't make the distinction anymore, which is what mja is saying. If you make it difficult for him to have accidents in the house and easy to go out when he needs to or should go out, then you can turn it around, but it's not going to fix itself. That's all mja is saying.

 

J.