TelosHedge Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 hey everyone! we've been very happy so far with our newly added BC to our family. he is currently 11 months and in wonderful spirits. we enjoy training him in the form of basic obedience, but his real passion is definitely in retrieving. he took to the frisbee at 5 months without even seeing a roller. in the winter months i've spent some time researching and reading up about all the wonderful things these dogs are capable of. obviously in my searching i've come across the recommended ages for frisbee and some of the hazards the sport can introduce. as i was not aware of these hazards beforehand i'd like to ask a few questions now before i risk my dog's health any further... when people mention 'jumping' their dogs, do they mean to a certain extent? i'm not saying i'd like to jump my dog several feet in the air, but sometimes i'll let a high frisbee go without meaning to. my dog is again 11 months old and doesn't seem to jump super high at times for the frisbee, but i wonder what the real cut off should be? he is capable of (and frequently) jumping over an ottoman or a coffee table. what's the real difference? when it comes to frisbee, is there any safety in shortening the sessions up? we usually only play for 10-15 minutes at a shot, no more than twice a day, but usually only once. if it's gloomy outside we won't play frisbee at all. due to the awful northeastern winter we had this year he hadn't seen a frisbee in about 4 months. i am not trying to hurt my dog, i am merely just curious to know what is safe and what isn't. if you tell me to take the frisbee away for another year i will certainly listen - i just don't want to crush his spirits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysheperdess Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I BELIEVE prime prime age for a dogs growth plates to fuse is 14-16 months but it can really be anywhere from 12 months to a year...can't tell for sure without an x-ray..Not sure the exact info as I don't compete in agility and don't do flyball/frisbee etc...makes me cringe...seen to many senseless injuries for dogs due to frisbee/ball play(including my own dogs)...it's just not worth it to me...I do play fetch with my dogs in a water type setting, as it's such great exercise and not alot of stress or risk of injury to there bodies... Saying that I know quite a few folks who do and even compete in frisbee/flyball/etc..from what they've shared it depends ALOT on the dog in terms of risk of injury...One friend has a lighter boned bc who could do several frisbee flips in a row...jump like "air Jordan" for the frisbee, and always landed clean..was graceful..always aware of what her body was doing and as long as she got properly warmed up and cooled down..is 9 now and has NEVER been injured....her other dog is bigger boned, alot more intense and could CARE LESS what his body is doing as long as he gets the frisbee or ball as fast as possible...HE has been injured multiple times to the point of a VERY serious injury and now he is not able to play at all anymore... I've seen 80 lb labs jump for frisbee's with grace and poise and are stretched and warmed up afterwards no problems...and 30 lb border collies who would break there neck chasing a toy...it just depends... I wouldn't jump your guy until he gets a bit older personaly...he is to young to be putting that kind of stress on his growing body...could set you up for more injies later on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markleblanc Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 My BC is 8 months old and loves frisbee as well. You story is actually very familiar to me because I am in the same situation. My dog took to frisbee fast and I didn't know the risks involved. After doing a little research I shortened the frisbee sessions to 5-10 throws and I only let him play frisbee 2-3 times per week. I make sure to keep throws very low so that he only has to run and not jump very much or even jump at all. Luckily, he is not is the habit of running full out, catching the frisbee and making and abrupt stop(which would put much strain on him joints). He almost always catches the frisbee and continues running and makes a big circle back towards me. I also taught him to get a good head start so he doesn't really every have to sprint to catch the frisbee.. Normally he gets a 15-20 yard head start and catches the frisbee at around 25 or 30 yards with little effort, and I always throw into a head wind to help the frisbee to just float in the air towards the end of it's flight. So it's most ofter just hovering and he reaches and snatches it. Also I sometimes find a place with really short grass and make the frisbee skip off the ground. This makes certain that the frisbee will stay low if I do a shallow skip(small angle with the ground) and also helps the frisbee to just float at the end of its flight. I also monitor my dogs weight very closely. He's 20 inches at the withers and weighs in at 33 lbs and I can still feel a bit of fat over his ribs, and he's not hungry because he doesn't even always eat all of his food. In my opinion, commercial training treats lead to weight problems in dogs so when I use treats to train him for obedience I use Botanics rolled dog food. Its a premium food and dogs LOVE it because of the intense smell and taste. I try not to play fetch with Ace because he has a tendency to try and catch tennis balls before they stop. He likes catching them while they're still in motion, so he sprints full out, then either catches the ball or passes it up and tries to stop quickly to turn and go back for the ball. I find this is harder on his joints than frisbee.. Most agility trainers have told me that you can start training a puppy for agility at around 6 months by just putting the bar on the ground and having them jump over just the bar. In this case I see dogs jumping 6-8 inches to clear just the bar(even though they don't need to jump that high). So I base my frisbee throws off of that and try and keep Ace from jumping any more than 6-8 inches at low speeds. I know people who have injured their dogs because they never let them play frisbee until they were 18 months old, and by that time the dog was strong and fast but had never jumped for a frisbee before, and the dog injured itself because of the lack of experience. I think it's important that a dog learns certain skills before fully developed so that they have the coordination to perform certain physical activities safely when they're grown and capable of running 30mph and jumping 4 feet in the air. But that is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 ..from what they've shared it depends ALOT on the dog in terms of risk of injury...One friend has a lighter boned bc who could do several frisbee flips in a row...jump like "air Jordan" for the frisbee, and always landed clean..was graceful..always aware of what her body was doing and as long as she got properly warmed up and cooled down..is 9 now and has NEVER been injured....her other dog is bigger boned, alot more intense and could CARE LESS what his body is doing as long as he gets the frisbee or ball as fast as possible...HE has been injured multiple times to the point of a VERY serious injury and now he is not able to play at all anymore... I've seen 80 lb labs jump for frisbee's with grace and poise and are stretched and warmed up afterwards no problems...and 30 lb border collies who would break there neck chasing a toy...it just depends... I wouldn't jump your guy until he gets a bit older personaly...he is to young to be putting that kind of stress on his growing body...could set you up for more injies later on... I agree with shysheperdess that some dogs may be more or less injury-prone depending on their "gracefulness" (as one factor). My BC has injured himself in 'normal' play because he is the intense, couldn't-care-less-how-he-bangs-himself-up type of BC. He is quite lean. One thing I am going to start with him is building up his core strength. I just bought one of the exercise peanuts for dogs which can be used with specific exercises to build core strength. I also work on exercises that build rear-end awareness. The more I learn, I believe that "cross-training" your dog will be beneficial in whatever sport you play. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelosHedge Posted April 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 the more i read about these mysterious jumping dogs the more i'm starting to think i'm not beating on my dog as bad as i originally had thought. our sessions are short and gentle compared to some of the other stories i've been reading. doesn't mean i wont take it a little easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzysdad Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I was told 18 months from a vet before you can be sure growth plates are closed. I like to hear that people are taking it easy with their dogs I stopped with the frisbee as much as I used to after watching Tobey contort his body in all kinds of shapes. We stick with a soccer ball now and he'll just raise his front feet off the ground to catch on a bounce. I also agree with other people in that it does dependon the dog. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I would suggest a much lower impact activity until your dog is at least 18 months old. If his growth plates have not fused, yet, (and at 11 months, they likely haven't), then you are risking permanent injury. It's not worth it. I know you say he CAN jump, but you really shouldn't encourage jumping, especially high impact jumping like jumping for a Frisbee. I have a 13 month old and he CAN jump really high and he CAN catch a Frisbee in mid air. But, he only gets rollers for now and his spirits are not crushed. Shortening up the sessions is not the answer, since a growth plate injury could happen just as easily during a short session as during a more extensive session. Your dog will be an adult dog for a long time and will have plenty of opportunities to catch Frisbees in the future. Let him be a young dog while he is still young and protect the health of his bones so that he can enjoy all the activities of an adult dog for many years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 My philosophy with young dogs is to take them on long walks and let them do all the running and jumping they would naturally do. Any time the human and a toy gets involved, the activities become repetitive, and it's the repetitive impact that will damage a young dog's joints and set him up for arthritis or further injury later. (This is why it's okay for the pup to jump the ottoman or the table--the pup is choosing to do it of its own volition--presumably--and doesn't do it over and over and over again for 10-15 minutes, or more, at a time.) That't not to say I don't play with youngsters, because I do, but really the only fetch they get would be in water (swimming is low impact). A young dog that is taken on long walks will develop stamina and build muscle. I don't buy into the idea that learning to do something at a young age will make the dog less likely to injure itself later--many factors go into injuries, and most have to do with repetitive, high-impact activities and perhaps dogs who are unfit or who are not warmed up prior to the activity. I have one working dog who was injured ball chasing at 6 months old, thanks to a friend not heeding my warning. Now, when she's worked hard she comes up lame in that leg. Years ago when I had her examined by an orthopedist, he noted that she had muscle atrophy in that shoulder, indicating that she didn't use it the same way she did her other shoulder (i.e., she favored it). Why am I telling this story, considering she could (and can) still work, was an amazing open-level trial dog and my main work dog at home? Because that old injury causes her pain, and that pain that she has lived with for nearly her entire life is the result of human carelessness when she was young. My 14-y.o. was an amazing frisbee dog. I got her at nearly 2 years old, so didn't need to worry about things like growth plates. But she is one of those dogs who has not a care for her own health and safety. She has broken a leg playing fetch (planting the foot and then twisting hard), has knocked out some teeth and worn down others, has two ACL tears.... She too now lives with arthritis and pain from old injuries. I think we should have fun with our dogs when they are young, and certainly teach them things, but I try not to encourage any sort of repetitive, high-impact activities that could damage their growing skeletons and joints. JMO. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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