Has anyone ever adopted from "Stampers Border Collies?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Now we are leaping to conclusions here. I'm still clinging to my vision of a Kennel that is reshaping these old lines to meet the needs of today's stocker lamb and calf operations. Shearer, Ettrick, Alta, now Stomper?

[nancy]

a·dopt (-dpt)

tr.v. a·dopt·ed, a·dopt·ing, a·dopts

1. To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.

 

I note that nothing mentions paying for the process.

 

I know that I called Fergie my Puppy-Girl. But, although my will left money for her care if she out-lived me, she was not a legal heir. As in, not my adopted child.

 

Hey, kids, can you say facetious?

[rufftie]

wow, that was a lot of righteous indignation! i'm sure the o.p. will be delighted to answer all your questions. glad you all live the straight and narrow. you seemed to have missed the point of perhaps learning something-good or bad, and even worse might have missed an oppurtunity to turn someone from the dark side.

while i agree that border collies should only be bred for working ability, i'm wishy-washy on the term adoption. hey, half of you probably adopted cabbage patch dolls as children or for your children and they're just toys. i can live with the term adoption. i can also live with people doing things for a profit,as long as they are responsible. profit is not a dirty word. some of you must be doing something to make money?? and yes, responsible is open for interpretation, but really, it is not as black and white as you want to make it seem. and if you've ever tried to adopt a human child, you'd find it takes a ton of money., and someone, maybe just the lawyers are making a profit off it.

off my soapbox and putting on my hazmat suit.

[Sue R]

Calling it "adoption" is a marketing ploy. We call it like we see it.

[Journey]

wow, that was a lot of righteous indignation! i'm sure the o.p. will be delighted to answer all your

 

Uh, the OP asked 3 months ago. The breeder of question revived the thread today. Just calling it as it appears. Nothing wrong with making a profit, however, do it honestly, don't play on emotions and attempt to ride on pedigree coattails, or in this case dust bunnies. Not sure which way the OP went but one can hope.

 

ETA: Don't forget to visit them on *puppyfind*, blah it's very black and white when you find them on that site....

[brndlbc]

Imagine the emotional outcry if people who "adopted" their babies (human) went around saying "I bought baby Tiffany from China"

[PSmitty]

@ "Borderslove":

You sell puppies for profit, period.

Calling it "adoption" is ridiculous, and a misleading abuse of the dictionary definition of the word.

Your explanation is a sappy sale pitch, nothing else.

 

 

Exactly.

 

I find nothing wrong with people selling dogs, *if they're breeding for the right reason*. However, I feel there's a big difference between adopting a dog and buying a dog.

[PSmitty]

Imagine the emotional outcry if people who "adopted" their babies (human) went around saying "I bought baby Tiffany from China"

 

True. Good thing we're talking about dogs.

[borderslove]

Hello All! To answer some of your questions about me and our border collie's....Yes, I have worked our border collies on livestock over a period of 28 years. I have had the pleasure of what I have considerd a once in a lifetime working companion with not just one border collie over the years, but three. Each of them living to be wonderful devoted working companions to 15 and 16 years of age. All of them now gone but never forgotten. Our first border collie was a grandson to ##Wiston Cap and ##Bosworth Coon and lived a long and full life with my family along with two of his grown pups...these dogs all traveled with us over many miles of trails with our horses, they brought our horses up and in out of the fields for us and would put them each in their horse stalls. These dogs tought us what help we needed...we did not teach them. When loading our horses in the trailer we no longer needed to lead the horses up and in a horse trailer, our border collies put our horses in...always a site to behold. These dogs new what we needed often before we knew. I did not acquire Border Collie's with the intent on breeding them, they were are beloved farm companions, they stayed by our side with endless devotion, and was always ready and willing when we needed their assistance no matter the task. Over the years I have researched these pedigree lines and genetics for endless hours in part of my amazment in regards to their intelligence, willingness to please, and incredible devotion to us as their owners. I started to breed this line because I had many people with whom met our dogs and watched in amazment at their working abilities and intelligence. I have worked long and hard for several years to promote the working border collie and I refer much in regards to these pedigree lines because I have chosen each one of our mates for specific reasons. I say on our website that " all our puppies inherit the ability to work and herd" because do you really think that a puppy that has three or four International Herding Champions in their pedigree such as ##Davy, ##Wisp, ##Spot, ##Roy, ##Ben, and ##Wiston Cap all within 6 generations would not have an instinct to herd in their genetic makeup? I mean... really? I have learned through experience how to pick that pup from a litter who absolutely needs to be working livestock, or that pup who would make a great performance dog, or therapy dog, and each and every one will give a life time of devotion and loyalty to their owners. The wonderful thing about the border collie breed is that their intelligence and willingness to please has now made them one of the most versital of breeds and they can be trained for many useful tasks and the fun and enjoyment of a performance companion as well.

 

I am not a person who just started breeding border collie's with no consideration for their working abilities, intelligence, and disposition, and I have spent many years of my life with some of the best working companions I know. I have taken much consideration with the Border Collie's I choose to breed. I am not breeding here to make a profit, do you really think the cost and care of a border collie is free? I breed to continue a great line of working companions and performance dogs for those people who will be worthy of such a companion.

 

Best wishes to you all! I am finished with all your criticizing comments and remarks....as in most casses I will be out with my intelligent working devoted farm companions all the while you are all sitting inside working on your computer in your forums!

 

Best Regards!

[C Crocker]

And, by evaluating stockworking abilites, I'm not meaning "herds the cat" or "herds the other dogs" or "chases sheep" and other comments that unknowledgeable people make about their dogs, thinking it means they are "great herders".)

 

 

Hi Sue,

 

I just read this thread for the first time and read the last post by I assume owner of pups up for "adoption". I think the answer to your question is that they "herd " their horses with these dogs. They even load them into the horse trailers accorindg to post. What have I been thinking all these years? I use a halter and lead on my horses, and never let the dogs "herd" them.

Maybe it's just semantics--I sold the litter of pups I raised, rather than adopting them out.

[juliepoudrier]

do you really think that a puppy that has three or four International Herding Champions in their pedigree such as ##Davy, ##Wisp, ##Spot, ##Roy, ##Ben, and ##Wiston Cap all within 6 generations would not have an instinct to herd in their genetic makeup? I mean... really?

Really. I think that most experienced breeders of border collies who work sheep and cattle would say there are no guarantees no matter how stellar the parents or the pedigree. Claiming otherwise doesn't make it so.

 

As for working one's dogs on horses and using that as an evaluation of working ability, well, I won't even go there.

 

And seriously, there's nothing wrong with making a profit. I find it hard to believe that anyone would continue to breed dogs over years if they lost money on every litter....

 

J.

[geonni banner]

Aw heck, give the poor woman a break! After slaving over a hot whelping box all day and managing all those adoption papers, she was was plumb tuckered out - too tired to catch and halter a horse. Too bad she ain't makin' a cent.

 

OK, meow... But dang!

 

Here's what my cat thinks about it:

[Gloria Atwater]

I'm stunned that someone would let their dogs "herd" horses. In what world is that a good thing? I've been around horses all my adult life, and I've known good dogs killed: all it takes is one swift kick and there's a shattered skull or broken back. Certainly I've known plenty of horses who would chase and try to stomp a dog. I'd say God's own luck road on those dog's shoulders!

 

To answer a question, however, having Wiston Cap or whomever else within 6 generations does not guarantee a good working dog. I am not a breeder, but I'm becoming convinced that, without selection for the traits most needed and best enhanced by particular matings, those traits are easily diluted and lost. Breeding to bloodlines isn't the same as breeding to (and for) proven ability. So far, I'm not seeing where this breeder has trained any of their dogs to a level beyond helping load horses in a trailer! I find these claims of working ability at best vague and at worst disingenuous.

 

~ Gloria

[Journey]

they brought our horses up and in out of the fields for us and would put them each in their horse stalls. When loading our horses in the trailer we no longer needed to lead the horses up and in a horse trailer, our border collies put our horses in...always a site to behold.

 

Yawn....500 words just to tell us you let them chase horses.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I can't for seem ti do quotes on the IPhone I use when I am out using Sam to keep the sheep cleaning out brush, while browsing forums.

 

On having international champions, etc.

 

Let's talk about a dog I have here. His sire win the Bluegrass many times, and the USBCHA sheepdog finals once? Maybe a couple, can't remember.

 

Then my dog's grandsire also win that same title, plus many others. Both of those dogs had many champions and relatives of champions in their pedigrees as well.

 

My dog's grandmother was an International supreme winner. She also won the USBCHA sheepdog finals three years, plus many, many other top honors.

 

His sire's littermates were also multiple top winners, and producers of some top dogs themselves.

 

His dam was full sibling to another USBCHA finals winner, plus sibling to so many other dogs that did so well, that the cimbination was called the "Golden Cross" for many years.

 

These dogs also all worked hard on big farms. The grandmother who was a Supreme champion, did that after an accident while working that crippled her for months.

 

Back to my dog. Wouldn't you bet my dog has awesome "herding instincts"?

 

He sure does! Problem is, they are all put together wrong. It happens sometimes. You can't tell until you really start asking the tricky stuff from them (work a group of lambs in the woods, push a single ram off ewes, run ewes off grain they've gotten into).

 

All the titles in the world don't matter when your dog can't do what you need, and you are standing there with sheep and no way to move them.

[PSmitty]

<snip>I have learned through experience how to pick that pup from a litter who absolutely needs to be working livestock, or that pup who would make a great performance dog, or therapy dog, <snip>

 

Really? How can you tell this by the time the puppies leave for their new homes at 7 or 8 weeks old? Very curious to me...

[Sue R]

The more that Ms Stamper writes, the less it appears that she really understands - about Border Collies, working ability, genetics, breeding, and stockwork. And she must be psychic, too, knowing the pups' future at seven or eight weeks of age, when the most prominent and accomplished breeders of working dogs don't.

 

I have found in many interchanges, that it is the poor breeder that protests the most. Good breeders are justified by the quality work of the pups they produce, the pups' ability to be trained to a high level, and not just empty words.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm telling you guys, stop being so mean! We have a national treasure here. All other experienced breeders, on a first time cross especially, just think and study parents' working styles and weaknesses and health issues, then can only pray the pups will mature to be what they hoped for the breeding.

 

Here is someone who knows which pups will do what in the whelping box, without any of that other bother!

 

Friends, think of all the expense saved on gas, trial fees, "puppy sheep," handling clinic fees, campers and hotels!

[Mark Billadeau]

I suspect that in legal terms one never "adopts" a dog it is always a purchase (or gift); since one purchases property and adopts a being that has individual legal rights.

 

Using adoption in place of purchase when it concerns dogs is a marketing scheme or a means to distinguish that the purchase was made from a non-profit organization.

[Liz P]

I say on our website that " all our puppies inherit the ability to work and herd" because do you really think that a puppy that has three or four International Herding Champions in their pedigree such as ##Davy, ##Wisp, ##Spot, ##Roy, ##Ben, and ##Wiston Cap all within 6 generations would not have an instinct to herd in their genetic makeup? I mean... really?

 

If you were working your dogs to a high standard you would know the difference between a dog that has the "instinct to herd" and a dog that is actually useful for stock work. I've seen English pointers, husky crosses and papillons that would "herd" sheep. Didn't make 'em good working dogs though. They need the total package to be a reliable working partner.

 

total package = the correct balance between

*desire to work stock ("herding instinct")

*ability to read stock

*biddable

*able to take a correction and not quit

*solid work ethic

*desire to partner up while still able to work independent of the handler

*physical ability to cover stock

*and many other traits that can only be evaluated while actually working a dog to a high standard

 

And BTW, I can find plenty of pups from horrible puppy mills and BYBs with loads of international champions close up the their pedigree. Having those dogs in there is no guarantee of quality or ability. It is how the genes from their ancestors match up and balance out that determines if a pup will turn out to be a good one or not.

[brndlbc]

 

 

.... or a means to distinguish that the purchase was made from a non-profit organization.

 

People must have adopted the puppies I bred then as by the time I figured in all my time, energy and expenses, I WAS a nonprofit organization

[martySQ]

This thread just makes me so sad. Not that you care.

 

I doubt the original poster will ever dare step foot in here again. No education done except to learn we , who know the most , are rude and will attack newcomers.

As for the breeder, whom we could have cultivated a relationship with... I'm sure she is gone too... acidic comments eroding any bridge that might could have been made to gradually help her think through the way she breeds and does things.

I realize it was started when most people have winter shut in syndrome...cabin fever or what all..or were busy and in the middle of lambing... but geez Louise...nice going there-- jumping on the bandwagon...

Sincerely, The fun police.

[jdarling]

MartySQ, I understand what you're saying, however, Stampers didn't come here for an education. Stampers came here to educate us on the meaning of the term "adopt." Stampers went on to inform us that they have been breeding for many years, and they basically don't need our opinion. If you go to their website, you will see THIS link ... where they list the accomplishments of dogs so far back in their pedigrees that they might as well not exist, and bragging about the accomplishments of the dogs as if they had something to do with their success. Meanwhile, their own dogs haven't accomplished a thing other than being victims of the clueless handlers that are dumb enough to have them herd horses. I can think of many puppymills that do the same. Not only that, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that, despite all of the years of breeding they lay claim to, they obviously don't have a clue what they are doing considering the pedigrees of their dogs are nothing more than a palette of some of the most well known puppymills around.

[Journey]

This thread just makes me so sad. Not that you care.

 

Did you read the entire thread? If so then you'd see we responded because we care.

 

I doubt the original poster will ever dare step foot in here again. No education done except to learn we , who know the most , are rude and will attack newcomers.

 

Who knows? Why don't you post her and ask? According to the log she hasn't been here since she posted. She could have missed the entire thread.

 

 

As for the breeder, whom we could have cultivated a relationship with... I'm sure she is gone too...

 

Why? Why on all levels? Did you miss the part about how many litters she produces? Or the part where she sells pups on *puppyfind*? Or how about the part where she knows they can work at 7 weeks or not? What about them being fantastic at working the horses? She's been at this for how long? And has made how much money? Sorry, I try to avoid toxic relationships.

 

You can only educate those that want to be. In this case maybe in the future this thread will help someone else avoid this PM'er!

 

The fun police.

 

The truth police

[Sue R]

The truth police

Thank you and Jodi both.

 

I was so irritated by today's first post on this topic (which only is over three months old, and was resurrected by the breeder last week), that I'm glad I kept my fingers off the keyboard and let others say what needed to be said in a much better fashion than I would have said it.

 

As for the OP, most replies were really quite polite - it got a bit testy when (as you pointed out) the breeder stepped forward to tell us how wonderful her dogs and her breeding practices are.