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gneiss

Breeders in the Pacific Northwest?

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I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good border collie breeder. I live in Oregon, and am willing to travel to washington and British Columbia, Canada.

 

Apparently I need to be more specific in my needs. I currently have a 5 year old border collie in which I got from Border Collie Rescue. I have no problem going through rescue. The reason I am looking for a BC breeder is that I have a BC with space issues. I am looking for a very specific dog. I am looking for a puppy. I want a very sweet, semi-soft, middle of the road temperament, on a scale between 1-10, i'm looking for 4 to 6. I also don't want an independent puppy. I also am looking for a fairly high drive, but not intense, just wanting to please.

 

I am currently working my 5 year old Border Collie in obedience (CDX) and agility.

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Unfortunately, there are a ton here that I found while on my search for pups. :rolleyes: not really ANY were good. Rescue is your best option.

 

Ravensgate is a great rescue, their dogs are listed on the PNW website, plus they have their own. If no rescue for you - BTW, there seem to be a ton of pups in rescue right now - find a herding trial and talk to people that know what they are doing, ask where they got their dogs and so on - then you could go from there. That is the best way - and it can take a while. Again, rescue is your best bet.

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I can not believe this No good breeders in this persons location ! WOW well lets forget the breeders and go for the rescue. It seams like every time someone looks for a good breeder all they get is check out the rescues ! Well this person wants to go to a breeder .

I can understand that if someone wants to rescue that is awesome but can anyone help this person.

LOL bobh

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>>Unfortunately, there are a ton here that I found while on my search for pups. not really ANY were good. Rescue is your best option<<<<

 

Wow, what a slap in the face to the Border Collie folks up here. I raise/train/trial my Border Collies as well as some of the top folks in the Nation who live here also. Let me see, some of the local folks just ran at the Sheepdog Finals....placed high in Nursery and some made the top 40. All good decent people who care about their dogs.

 

Depends on what she wants in a Border Collie. Most of the folks who want a pup from me, want a pet or non-trial Border Collies so I send them to rescue. Most of my pups are repeat sales or via word of mouth from someone seeing a older sibling work.

 

There are BYB up here but that is to be expected in any part of the USA.

 

How hard did you look for a pup??

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I for one will not recommend anyone on a public forum, and many good breeders don't have puppies on the ground all the time, so even if I personally could recommend someone from that area (and I could recommend good working breeders), that doesn't mean they'd have pups available. Having bred one litter myself I can say I didn't want folks I knew sending just anyone my way looking for a pup either.

 

While I have no problem with someone wanting to get a pup from a breeder, it sure would be nice if those posters asking for recommendations would describe a bit more what they are looking for as I'm sure their definition of a good breeder might not jibe with mine.

 

The fact is that for the average human who just wants a border collie, rescue *is* a good place to start. If rescue isn't an option then I think Kat's idea of attending a few herding trials is the next best thing. I would guess that folks would be more willing to make recommendations (and know who actually has pups available) in person, and it you're looking for a working dog, a trial is a great place to see a bunch of different dogs and bloodlines in action.

 

So Gneiss,

What exactly are you looking for in a border collie? Do you want working bred or something else? Is color important? What are you planning to do with the dog? And have you read the welcome thread at the top of this section of the boards (the one that says something like "Welcome, Read this first.")?

 

Anyway, you can see that if you ask a very general question it's difficult to even begin to offer help. Let us know more what you are looking for and perhaps people can then tell you how to go about (or not go about) finding it.

 

J.

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I suggest you go about looking for a pup the way you would go about finding a good place for herding lessons. Find places that train border collies to herd sheep and those people will know where the good border collie breeders are.

 

Here is a recent thread for trainers in Oregon: http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...ic;f=2;t=001165

 

Here's a page on finding a responsible breeder. I found this link at the PNW BC Rescue site:

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/breeding.htm

 

Here is a list of upcoming events (with email contacts) for herding trials:

http://www.usbcha.com/upcomingtrials.htm

 

LittleHats.net page on finding a puppy:

http://www.littlehats.net/find-puppy.html

(includes a list of breeders, but you should check to be sure they are responsible before buying a pup)

 

BC Stock Dog Association list of events:

http://www.stockdog.bc.ca/events.html

 

BC Stock Dog Association list of breeders:

http://www.stockdog.bc.ca/Classifieds/breeders.html

 

You can write to the rescue folks and ask if they know of good breeders in the area.

http://www.pnwbcrescue.org/ There are listings for dogs available there for Oregon, Washington, and BC.

 

Ravensgate Border Collie Rescue:

http://ravensgate.net/ They are on Camano Island, I believe.

 

Be prepared, either with a breeder or with rescue, to be able to lay out what you plan to do with this dog. Work sheep? SAR? Obedience? Agility? Therapy? House pet? Hiking partner? Because they will ask. If they do not ask, don't get a dog there!!

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

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Originally posted by bobh:

It seams like every time someone looks for a good breeder all they get is check out the rescues ! Well this person wants to go to a breeder .

I can understand that if someone wants to rescue that is awesome but can anyone help this person.

LOL bobh

Are you the OP or am I missing something? No? Then why get your panties in a bunch, bobh??

 

The OP didn't say specifically say that she/he didn't want a rescue dog, and given that there are tons of homeless dogs in rescue in the OPs area there is no harm (except what appears to be a personal affront to you if anyone dares mention rescue) in offering that option. If the OP doesn't wish to rescue a dog, the OP can continue their hunt for a breeder. So simple it's almost beautiful isn't it?

 

I think it's weird and creepy that you are so vehemently anti-rescue. It might surprise you that rescue dogs work for many many other people and dogs are happily adopted all the time! And that many breeders do, in fact, support rescue as a viable alternative to purchasing a dog for many people.

 

So you complain that we push rescue on the OP because the OP didn't ask about rescue, he/she asked about breeders. But you assume that pointing out rescue as an option WON'T help the OP. Maybe it will. Maybe he or she will say "Wow thanks, I had no idea there was a rescue collective in the PNW." You don't know. So what's wrong with offering the information for the taking?

 

There are many good breeders in the PNW, and there are many NOT so good breeders in the PNW. And there are lots of good rescue dogs in the PNW too. So the OP has a plethora of options to choose from. How is that a bad thing?

 

It surprises me that someone's anti-rescue bias can be so strong that they would actually take the time to log in and pooh-pooh rescue. That's just so bloody sad. What'd a rescue dog ever do to you?

 

RDM

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I'm just curious--if rescuers get a request asking for the name of a responsible breeder, do you give the person some names and phone numbers, or do you decline and give them rescue information instead?

 

And obviously not all rescues handle this issue the same way... I'm just interested.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

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OP

No one can or should guarantee you all of that in a puppy, regardless of where (s)he came from.

 

Space issues? A puppy will be in the other's face until it grows up or gets bit.

 

"very sweet, semi-soft, middle of the road temperament" "...don't want an independent puppy. I also am looking for a fairly high drive, but not intense, just wanting to please"

 

Good luck

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bobh

I know this will sound um... cold, but;

 

Who in their right mind asks a bunch of strangers the best breeder to buy a dog (lifetime commitment) from...

 

And who in their right mind answers such a question on public forum to a stranger

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"I want a very sweet, semi-soft, middle of the road temperament, on a scale between 1-10, i'm looking for 4 to 6. I also don't want an independent puppy. I also am looking for a fairly high drive, but not intense, just wanting to please."

 

Actually, when I asked for a dog who would not scare my shy/fearful dog, who would be outgoing & friendly, a possible future SAR dog, wants to work, willing, and cheerful, that is exactly what I got in Kipp.

 

I think I got lucky. I also think there was a thread or two somewhere on this board about people who really know puppies and really know their own puppies and how they can pick out the major qualities that someone wants if that is what they want.

 

All that said, if you are looking for the perfect dog then you can take your dog around with you to meet rescue dogs and visit and see if they hit it off. If you bring one home and they do not work out, most places have some kind of trial period.

 

And, of course, some rescues have puppies available and the foster family will know the puppies pretty well.

 

I got a puppy for my second dog because all the books I read and people I talked to said it was best for a shy/fearful dog to have a puppy introduced. Also, Tess gets along well with small dogs and puppies and is often very worried and nervous around bigger dogs (dogs her size, I mean). She may have warmed up eventually to a grown-up dog, but she and Kipp got along like a house on fire from pretty much the first day.

 

As for space issues, well, that is going to depend upon the issue. Although I kept that to a minimum (Tess does NOT like to be stepped upon--not even her tail hair) by keeping the puppy in a crate when he was sleeping and when I was working, and supervising playtime so that Tess did not get stressed. Kipp has figured out when he is welcome to swat Tess in the head and when he is not. :rolleyes:

 

Gary, people ask and answer questions here because it is a place with a lot of very knowledgeable people. In the end, you must do your own research and find your own way, but this is a good place to start. Giving a name in a public forum is perhaps not going to be done, but there are ways to give information so that the OP can find their own way.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

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>

 

Well, I should think it would be someone who is looking for a border collie pup, doesn't know who is a good breeder, and hopes that people who know a lot about the breed can help point him/her in the right direction. IOW, somebody who's smarter and more responsible than the multitude of folks who just go to puppyfind.com and buy from anybody with cute puppy pictures.

 

>

 

Well, I certainly have. I suppose the "right mind" part isn't beyond dispute, but why would I not be willing to disclose that information to someone?

 

>

 

And what's wrong with that, exactly? Rescues are a source of good dogs, and many potential owners may not know about them, or may not know that puppies are available through rescue. It's a service to tell them so -- a service to them, as well as to the many rescue dogs who need to find a loving home. If the OP is not willing to consider rescue, s/he is free to say so and ask again. Although you seem to be aggrieved every time this happens, I never remember an enquirer reacting negatively to rescue suggestions.

 

Oh, BTW . . . Hi gneiss, welcome to the Boards! Please don't take this rocky reception personally -- we're friendlier than we may seem.

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The problem is that by not knowing to whom you are talking (from the OP's perspective) you cannot judge the validity or respectability of the answers you may receive either publicly or privately. I am sure that you in particular Eileen can think of dozens of "breeders" that you would want a prospective responsible BC owner to steer clear of. Would you put yourself in the position of debating the merits or lack thereof of a particular breeder in this forum. (I know you have on some, but I would believe that for every responsible breeder there are 100 irresponsible ones)

 

From the responders position (to the OP) I would want to know alot more about the person asking the question before making recommendations.

I assume Eileen, that you have contact numbers for many of the big hat trialers / breeders in the country. While you may make that information available privately to many on this board that you know and trust their motives, I doubt you would feel comfortable giving that same information to a first time poster, unaware of their intentions, wants or needs.

 

This is not to impune or discourage the OP, it is just what I would consider "due diligence" on their part. If I wanted a puppy from anywhere (rescue or breeder) I know the people on this board who's opinions I value and trust. (That includes many who probably think of me as nothing more than an obnoxious %&@$head) I would ask through e-mail or PM based on what I wanted and why and would value their judgement and experience to lead me in the right direction.

 

The generic "Where can I find a breeder" posts without any other qualifiers than location IMO does a disservice to the breed we profess to love and, through the work of many caring people, who's integrity we are entrusted to maintain.

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Congrats on the CDX on your current dog! Having put a CDX on Sara many years ago, I can appreciate the work you put in.

 

Unfortunately, I do not know any breeders in the PNW. Another source that isn't mentioned a lot is your vet. A lot of vets know who treats what breeds of dogs in particular and here in Houston, there are even a couple of "ob vets" who help w/fertility problems (I'm not making this up). Anyway you might get some info from the vet about breeders - then you could check out the breeders.

 

I wish you success in your hunt. Like many others, I also would suggest that you look into some of the rescue groups because sometimes there are puppies available and the foster homes know their temperaments.

 

Good luck and welcome to the board!

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Okay, just one more plug for rescue :rolleyes: .

 

I had decided this past summer that I wanted a puppy for my next dog. I also have a dog with issues and wanted to make sure she would be comfortable with a new dog (she likes puppies). I ended up getting an almost 2 y/o dog instead. He is almost exactly like the dog you describe as your ideal. It has worked out very well. He is smaller, and respectful of her space. Also from time to time rescues get pups of known parentage/bloodlines. So you never know - you might find what you are looking for there.

 

Otherwise, Allie has posted some links that can get you going in the right direction.

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Iam not against rescue but that was not the question. Like I have said before I would not be allowed a resue because i want to N/S when I think it is the best Time .Not when the rescue wants a dog N/S >

I may might just want to know its history

I must admit i might of overr reacted but what is wrong with getting a dog from agood breeder both my Bcs came from breeders and I had the choiceas to when to S?N them . That is important to me All my dogs 1 male and 3 females are S/N but i decided when to have it done and did not just do it on a wim which i feel rescues S/N pups at much to early of an age

JMO

If one wants to get there dogs From rescue I think that is good but if a BC list can not help or direct someone to good breeders than I am lost for words

bh

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Bob, I don't know what I'm missing :confused: :confused: .

 

There have been several good answers to your question here. Did you not see them?

 

I for one will not recommend anyone on a public forum, and many good breeders don't have puppies on the ground all the time, so even if I personally could recommend someone from that area (and I could recommend good working breeders), that doesn't mean they'd have pups available. Having bred one litter myself I can say I didn't want folks I knew sending just anyone my way looking for a pup either.
So you complain that we push rescue on the OP because the OP didn't ask about rescue, he/she asked about breeders. But you assume that pointing out rescue as an option WON'T help the OP. Maybe it will. Maybe he or she will say "Wow thanks, I had no idea there was a rescue collective in the PNW." You don't know. So what's wrong with offering the information for the taking?
find a herding trial and talk to people that know what they are doing, ask where they got their dogs and so on
Rescues are a source of good dogs, and many potential owners may not know about them, or may not know that puppies are available through rescue. It's a service to tell them so -- a service to them, as well as to the many rescue dogs who need to find a loving home. If the OP is not willing to consider rescue, s/he is free to say so and ask again. Although you seem to be aggrieved every time this happens, I never remember an enquirer reacting negatively to rescue suggestions.
The OP didn't seem to mind the rescue suggestion either.

 

Besides, if you read some of the links that were posted, you will find plenty of information that would lead a person willing to put in some time, and effort, to finding a pup from a reputable breeder in the PNW.

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I don't think that anything is wrong with it.

 

I had a TON of trouble (went to lots - well over 5 - breeders and saw lots of pups. They were NOT good). That was the truth. But I think that rescue should always be considered (for real) first.

 

Also, I am not really comfortable giving names of breeders (of BCs no less) to a person I know nothing about. You just never know right?

 

More information is always better than a short post - and you have a better chance of getting the answers to your questions.

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Originally posted by bobh:

All my dogs 1 male and 3 females are S/N but i decided when to have it done and did not just do it on a wim which i feel rescues S/N pups at much to early of an age

I'm sorry ... are you suggesting rescue neuters dogs on a "whim?"

 

Do you not understand the motivating factor that drives rescue to neuter all dogs before placement? I'd be quite happy to explain it to you, if you are mystified. Although, I would think that the 60 odd dogs listed on the PNW rescue site alone would answer your question without saying a word. And those are just the ones we could take, because, well, we run out of room so often. There aren't enough homes for all the dogs out there.

 

Neutering rescue does is not a whim, it's a MUST. People will breed anything they can get their hands on, and do. The literally THOUSANDS of homeless dogs on sites like petfinder have to tell you something about why rescues neuter their dogs.

 

Wow.

 

RDM

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Gary, I'm not exactly sure I understand your points, so I hope this addresses them.

 

1. Anyone can email or PM the OP if they have information they prefer to convey privately. I have often done so.

 

2. The OP has the same opportunity to judge whose opinion to trust as you do, by reading all their posts to the Boards. The OP also has the opportunity to contact the recommended breeders and learn full details about them directly before buying.

 

3. If I encourage people to avoid bad breeders and support good ones, I feel a certain responsibility to help them find the good ones.

 

4. None of the good breeders I know have any problem quizzing a potential buyer and refusing to sell a pup to someone they do not think would provide a suitable home. I feel I can trust them to do that.

 

5. I don't understand why it is dangerous or undesirable for someone I know nothing about to learn the name of a good breeder or two.

 

This comment I particularly don't understand:

 

>

 

Who is doing the disservice -- the OP (who BTW did explain what s/he is looking for and what sort of canine activities s/he engages in) or the people who might respond to him/her? And what exactly is the disservice?

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I get quite a bit of emails from people looking for a Border Collie. I steer them to our website.

 

http://www.pnwbcrescue.org/

 

Most of them are looking for pets or a dog that can do sport type of events with. Some of them after reading the site, decide that a Border Collie is not for them.

 

RDM is part of this site and is very active in the PNW rescue scene. She is very thorough. She is our Canadian sister!!

 

Most of my herding students either got their Border Collie from rescue or from the local BYB (now they know and have been educated). There are some BYB that just crank out pups right and left here....they get a hold of some good breeding and breed them to hell and back. None of them work the dogs but are BYBs.

 

So sad, those are the people that place ads etc....and rescue does their clean up.

 

(FYI, I have no pups for sale. I bred only to replace my working/trial dogs.And yes, they pass a working standard, hips, eyes, temperment etc....)

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I'm not understanding the real prob here. Before I got Skip, there were three people who I considered getting a pup from. These are people who work and trial, and that I have personally seen the prospective parents work. I was lucky and got a pup out of the bitch I really liked the best. But the point is, I did happen to know several people that I could go to. I was willing to wait cuz these people seldom breed. But what if I didn't know these people? I wanted a pup that had strong working lines. Right now, if I knew someone with pups either on the ground or in the oven or a planned up coming breeding, and someone asked about pups from good breeders, I would probly ask a few questions then go to who had the pups and let them know of the inquiery. Perhaps they will speak with them and decide no, or yes, that is their perogative. I mean, it ain't like I would be sending an axe murderer to them. If they ARE good breeders, surely they know who they want to take their pups. Sure, it would be great if there were no rescues of any breed needed. But that won't be reality for a long time. In the mean time, how can the breed that we love so much really survive if people are not breeding and placing the "cream" of the breed? There is no way that it can survive if ONLY working homes are found for every breeding or if everyone who wanted a BC only went to rescue. And if a working ranch has a breeding and there are 7 pups born but only 4 other working ranchers that want a pup, what becomes of the others? If someone knows that breeder and hears of an inquiery from someone else on a good breeder with pups, I would think the breeder would be grateful to have a prospective home for the pups. And yes, you will say, well he should have had the buyers lined up first. Well, maybe. But maybe this is a trial bitch that needs to whelp and have time to recoop before the season starts or lambing season comes around. Lots of variables there. The point is, rescue is wonderful, it is a great satisfaction to take in a great dog and yes, rescues have done everything from working, trialing, sports, etc. But sometimes people want a pup from good long working lines. I just don't understand why the antaganostic attitudes. It's just asking for a reputable breeder with good lines. The breeder can still say no.

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It's not a competition between rescue and responsible puppy breeders. Both desire to better the breed, in their own ways. Rescue removes mediocre or overbred dogs from the gene pool through spay/neuter and places them appropriately, while responsible breeders seek to add sound, talented individuals to the gene pool. Both want people looking for dogs to get the right dog for what they need, whether they can provide that or whether they have to send them somewhere else.

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Originally posted by Eileen Stein:

3. If I encourage people to avoid bad breeders and support good ones, I feel a certain responsibility to help them find the good ones.

 

4. None of the good breeders I know have any problem quizzing a potential buyer and refusing to sell a pup to someone they do not think would provide a suitable home. I feel I can trust them to do that.

 

5. I don't understand why it is dangerous or undesirable for someone I know nothing about to learn the name of a good breeder or two.

Eileen,

I agree that it would be helpful to point people in the direction of good breeders, but I personally would be uncomfortable doing so knowing nothing about the person doing the looking, especially when, as Gary notes, they ask a generic question that includes only location. Maybe I'm an anamoly, but even if these people aren't ax murderers I personally don't want a bunch of folks I don't know and no one I know knows calling me out of the blue asking if I've got puppies. I feel that people who are serious about finding a good breeder can take the advice to go to the venues where they can see dogs doing the same types of things they want to do with their dog, or to stockdog trials even if they aren't ultimately interested in trialing, and talk to people there. Being able to see different dogs, how they work, their temperaments, etc., is a great way to educate oneself on what's available and what might best match one's needs, not to mention a way to meet breeders face to face. I don't think that's too much effort to make for a person who is truly interested in taking responsibility for a puppy. I remember talking at length at a trial in NC a couple of years ago to several people who competed in agility and were looking for pups. Although they didn't have plans to ever trial a dog on stock, they were at a trial looking at and evaluating dogs that might best fit their needs and talking to the owners of those dogs. They made contact with lots of people who might have pups available in the future. I would feel a whole lot better dealing with someone that showed that much interest and effort than with someone who just said I got your name from so and so, who doesn't actually know me. But that's just me.

 

As an FYI, the OP added the information about what s/he was looking for *after* I asked him to, which isn't clear to people coming to the conversation later because the info was added by editing the original post.

 

Regarding your question to Gary, while I don't think there's a disservice done, I just find it irritating when people post without saying what they're looking for (and that goes for all posts, not just posts about breeders). It's hard to be helpful in answering *any* question posted on a forum like this if the person posing the question doesn't provide any information on what exactly they're looking for or what exactly is the problem they want help with. As the OP's original post stood, I could have recommended working breeders, but if the OP in fact was just looking for a companion/pet or a dog for conformation showing (for example), my suggestions might have been inappropriate and a waste of both the poster's and breeder's time.

 

JMO.

 

J.

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