adesouza89 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I've recently become interested in getting another BC. I've started my search on the internet for local breeders near where i live. I came across a breeder in MI. called Spur Bar Ranch. I was wondering if you guys knew anything about them?? I've just started my search, not looking for a new addition for a year or so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grenzehund Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 uh, you're not serious, are you?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesouza89 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 uh, you're not serious, are you?... I am, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I can't find where you are in New York. But you have to be in Buffalo for Michigan to be even possibly "local". I worry about that reference to "color". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well I'm no expert, but I wouldn't go near those dogs. Too much emphasis on color. And where are the pictures/video of the dogs working? Also they cite as their main focus the breeding of Border Collies. But what about working and trialing their dogs? It says their dogs are famous all over the country. Famous for what? Being lilac merles? Competing in Agility? Sounds like they're crankin' 'em out. And they take PayPal. Now that's reassuring! How convenient! I can type in my PayPal password, and presto! A candy-colored puppy flown to me any time/where I want! Run, don't walk away from this outfit. That's my advice - FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesouza89 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I can't find where you are in New York. But you have to be in Buffalo for Michigan to be even possibly "local". I worry about that reference to "color". I'm located in Central New York.. I'm just look all over. I don't mind the drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesouza89 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well I'm no expert, but I wouldn't go near those dogs. Too much emphasis on color. And where are the pictures/video of the dogs working? Also they cite as their main focus the breeding od Border Collies. But what about working and trialing their dogs? It says their dogs are famous all over the country. Famous for what? Being lilac merles? Competing in Agility? Sounds like they're crankin' 'em out. And they take PayPal. Now that's reassuring! How convenient! I can type in my PayPal password, and presto! A candy-colored puppy flown to me any time/where I want! Run, don't walk away from this outfit. That's my advice - FWIW. Thanks Geonni Banner. I'll make sure to stay away from them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 And the number of pups they have available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Ok, first of there are ALOT of current litters of puppies: 12/3/10 5 puppies 12/21/10 7 puppies 1/11/11 7 puppies 1/17/11 3 puppies 2/25/11 8 puppies 3/4/11 8 puppies So in 3 months, 38 puppies produces....all litters seem focused on producing red or merle coloring. There are alot of color dogs, minimal or weak reference to working ability, touting working "lines". Breeder accepts PayPal. Breeder says their main business is breeding border collies, but they are too busy to trial. There are numerous red flags on this website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I would take another look at the sticky "Read This First" at the top of the page. There is a GREAT list of red flags to watch out for. This site linked has a number of them: COLOR (they actually brag about breeding for color), TOO MANY PUPPIES, and no references to any real working accomplishments of their dogs. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Here are some reasons that I feel that this breeder should be avoided: * Six litters of puppies is less than four months (that fits my definition of a puppy mill) * Primary focus is on producing candy colors (instead of working ability) * Advertises on PuppyFind.com (reputable breeders do not advertise there) * Accepts Paypal via their website Regards, nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesouza89 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sorry Guys ! I should have seen the red flags.. But the puppies are just so darn cute.. Not to mention i've been stressed out.. I just wanted to see what you all thought.. I know now to stay away.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 oh no, really? I counted over 30 pups just since December, 16 brood bitches & 6 studs! Talk about high volume. I love the bit about how they can't wait to start their FOR YEAR old brood bitch on sheep next year! This is a quote from the homepage: Our main business here is breeding, raising and training ABCA registered border collies. Since we have been working with border collie's for over 23 years, we take pride in producing and preserving working bloodlines. Skip and I believe 100% that we can produce a quality working dog with color! Unfortunately, due to the obligations of our ranch, family and distance to cattle dog trials, we are unable to attend and promote our dogs on the circuit. Therefore, our dogs are used here daily for everyday ranch chores from bringing cattle in from pastures, working in the pens, and we even have dogs trained to help hold and move cattle during our team penning/ranch sorting practices! When someone puts this on their home page I'd run, not walk,...really fast! JMO, of course ETA: Okay apparently I need to refresh before replying to a thread! I am a little late-LOL! Well at least others agree with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 But the puppies are just so darn cute.. Well bred Border Collie puppies are just as cute. Also, you should check with your local rescue organizations when you are ready for your next Border Collie. Regards, nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I went and looked as some of the peds. Their "blue" dog goes back to the famous MH and RS. Their red goes back to some people I know that were using their famous last name to sell dogs, they had a mainly red kennel. Nope....not someone I'd be purchasing a dog from. Don't get discouraged or in a hurry, do more homework and things will come together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I am glad that you asked about this breeder and are wise enough to heed the advice given. I agree with all the red flags pointed out by others but wanted to recommend looking into rescue or since you are not planning on getting a pup for a while, that leaves you plenty of time to go to some trials and talk to handlers about their dogs, etc and possibly getting on a wait list for a good working pup. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yeah, puppymill is an understatement on that place When you see terms like, "could be" "looks like" "shows promise" "has potential", run away fast! If they don't know before they breed the dog, then why bredd? And it looks like Chip is just pumping out puppies every chance he gets I came across this web page a long time ago. It has a dog for sale link on it. It's for working dogs only. No AKC! It might help with your search. http://www.kensmuir.com/forum/ Eileen...if it's not appropriate to post the site here, feel free to remove it. I wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yeah, puppymill is an understatement on that place When you see terms like, "could be" "looks like" "shows promise" "has potential", run away fast! If they don't know before they breed the dog, then why bredd? And it looks like Chip is just pumping out puppies every chance he gets I came across this web page a long time ago. It has a dog for sale link on it. It's for working dogs only. No AKC! It might help with your search. http://www.kensmuir.com/forum/ Eileen...if it's not appropriate to post the site here, feel free to remove it. I wasn't sure. Bookmarked. Thanks! I'm a big fan of rescue but I'm so enamoured with Cerb's intelligence and intuition that I think I'd like to find a well bred dog from working stock when the time comes for him to have a permenent sib. I know I'm probably doubling down on the crazy but there's just something about a dog that knows what you're thinking before you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennkopp Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Since we've seen the red flags, and you have ruled out the original breeder, let's look at the "green flags". You live in Central NY You don't want a pup for a year You're willing to drive I would suggest going to nebca.net (North East Border Collie Association) Lots of good information. There is a trial schedule with plenty of trials in NY and the surrounding states. Spend the summer meeting good folks and seeing great dogs in action. Let people know what you're looking for in a dog, and you should receive some good referrals. There is also a good classified section on the site, but I would still recommend going to trials to see the dogs and handlers in person. Also, you can join NEBCA to receive their newsleter with good info, trial listings, announcements and results, and a breeders directory. Good luck in your search. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Have you considered rescue? (Just a thought...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 "Skip and I believe 100% that we can produce a quality working dog with color! Unfortunately, due to the obligations of our ranch, family and distance to cattle dog trials, we are unable to attend and promote our dogs on the circuit. Therefore, our dogs are used here daily for everyday ranch chores from bringing cattle in from pastures, working in the pens, and we even have dogs trained to help hold and move cattle during our team penning/ranch sorting practices!" Amazing...I work a full time job, manage my farm of over 60 sheep plus manage another sheep flock (close to 100 sheep) and train dogs, give lessons and still find the time to go to trials. Same as Elizabeth, Lana, Christine, Anna ......to name a few... It's not whether you have the time but more that you MAKE the time to trial your dogs. Even if one is proven on the ranch, I would like to see what the dogs does on the ranch. I got my Scott (Delmar Scott) and he was a cattle ranch dog.....but he worked on one of the largest cattle ranches in Canada and did a few lower class trials before I got him. When he was for sale, I hopped in my truck and went for a full day drive to get him. With some tuning, he quickly won cattle and sheepdog trials. He had an outstanding reputation as a ranch dog and Bob Stephen owned his 3/4 brother "Turk" and I admired Turk for years. Bob would not entertain the thought of selling his beloved Turk and I loved Scott the first time I saw in an arena trial. I suggest got to rescue or to a reputable breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I wrote to Spur Bar a few months ago asking about the parents of a litter, and asked for video of the sire and dam working because of the claims they make on their website. Not surprisingly, she wrote back to me and said, "I am sorry but neither parent works." Imagine that. She said something about videotaping Chip (who was not the sire of the litter being inquired about) working at some team penning thing she had going on and would take some video, but never got back to me and never sent me any video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyT Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 "Puppies are making names for themselves in 41 states across the U.S., Mexico, Canada, Switzerland, Puerto Rico, South America, Philippines, and China!" Odd thing to brag about, puppies to China. I don't know about the other areas outside of the U.S. listed. Makes me sad in light of the recent broker thread. Penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesouza89 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Since we've seen the red flags, and you have ruled out the original breeder, let's look at the "green flags". You live in Central NY You don't want a pup for a year You're willing to drive I would suggest going to nebca.net (North East Border Collie Association) Lots of good information. There is a trial schedule with plenty of trials in NY and the surrounding states. Spend the summer meeting good folks and seeing great dogs in action. Let people know what you're looking for in a dog, and you should receive some good referrals. There is also a good classified section on the site, but I would still recommend going to trials to see the dogs and handlers in person. Also, you can join NEBCA to receive their newsleter with good info, trial listings, announcements and results, and a breeders directory. Good luck in your search. Glenn Thanks Glenn I plan on attending as man sheepdog trials as I can.. So hopefully i will find the pup of my dreams:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesouza89 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I am glad that you asked about this breeder and are wise enough to heed the advice given. I agree with all the red flags pointed out by others but wanted to recommend looking into rescue or since you are not planning on getting a pup for a while, that leaves you plenty of time to go to some trials and talk to handlers about their dogs, etc and possibly getting on a wait list for a good working pup. Good Luck! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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