Donald McCaig Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Dear Doggers, Mr. Snappy chides me: "Using someone's real life problem as an exercise in being contrary about behavioural modification is appalling, and irresponsible." Sorry. I can't understand how my suggesting (with appropriate web sites) that the real person with the real aggressive puppy find a trainer (and/or behaviorist) who has success training aggressive dogs is irresponsible. While I believe there are more successful aggressive dog trainers than successful aggressive dog behaviorists, my criteria was success with such dogs, not any trainer's moral virtue nor religious convictions. Other than "See a behaviorist" and/or "kill the dog", no other practical suggestions have been advanced. Donald McCaig ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysheperdess Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Rarely now adays do you find a trainer who bases there methods in correction...I think what Mr.McCaig is saying is that for field work, SAR work, competitive obedience, etc. you will not find trainers using PURELY positive methods of training...where there is NO correction...I am quite close with a few SAR trainers/field dog trainers and competitors and alot of there methods are similar to the ones I and other succesful trainrs/handlers use with competitive obedience.....MOTIVATION MOTIVATION MOTIVATION!!!! Fun, positive....with an occasional correction where needed.....but the people who train for these disciplines do not use the more popular "positive only" techniques that have become the rage with agility, pet and some people who consider themselves behaviorists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Dear Doggers, Mr. Snappy chides me: "Using someone's real life problem as an exercise in being contrary about behavioural modification is appalling, and irresponsible." Sorry. I can't understand how my suggesting (with appropriate web sites) that the real person with the real aggressive puppy find a trainer (and/or behaviorist) who has success training aggressive dogs is irresponsible. While I believe there are more successful aggressive dog trainers than successful aggressive dog behaviorists, my criteria was success with such dogs, not any trainer's moral virtue nor religious convictions. Other than "See a behaviorist" and/or "kill the dog", no other practical suggestions have been advanced. Donald McCaig ". I actually don't think anyone suggested casually, "oh just go kill the dog" as you imply, Mr. McCaig. That is a little bit disingenuous on your part, and I think you know it. The best, most appropriate suggestion given by multiple people, is how to find professional help because it seems like the dog has some real issues and its impossible to diagnose and treat stuff like this via words on an internet forum. Many people have offered help to the OP via resources and I know she has gotten at least one PM offering to help find a professional. I think those solutions are practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Other than "See a behaviorist" and/or "kill the dog", no other practical suggestions have been advanced. There was also the advice to be very careful to keep this dog away from strangers, especially children while addressing the problem. Bad things can happen very fast with a dog that is behaving aggressively, especially when kids are involved. Putting the dog down entered the conversation after a while because that is something that needs to be considered if you believe your dog may be dangerous. So we have 1. see a behaviorist, 2. see a trainer, 3. consider the possibility this dog may not be safe and may need to be put down and 4. manage this dog so that no one gets hurt while everything is being sorted out. What other practical advice do you think is out there for a dog and person none of us have met? The pup’s problems, as related here, are not insoluble. Fix them. Have a good life together. Many of us have a different take on the description of this puppy's behaviors than the blithe assumption that it is simply a matter of manners. Maybe that is all there is to this. I really hope so for the pup and family. However, rowdy, goofy, untrained puppy behaviors are one thing. Snarling, snapping, lunging at such a young age are another. Some of us base our concerns on past experiences. Perhaps you have never dealt with a dog whose aggression was not simply a matter of teaching manners. Others of us have and some of us spent a great deal of time and effort teaching manners and obedience, but still saw signficant problems that remained in our obedient, well mannered dogs. If I had a puppy with the behaviors the OP describes, I'd be very concerned. Not ready to throw in the towel, but well aware that the road ahead could possibly be not only challenging but even filled with trauma and heartache. Hopefully, this isn't the kind of scenario the OP faces. But helping a truly aggressive dog (not a rowdy, ill-mannered one) is no simple matter. The dog may never be fully "normal," never be truly safe, may always need special handling and may disrupt day to day life in ways you hadn't thought before. Hope is a great attitude but not always the best strategy. I hope this pup's problems can be "fixed." I wouldn't assume it about a dog and person I have never met. And of course my not being an expert. The one thing I am extremely confident in saying is it's better to be way too safe/cautious with this pup than be horribly sorry if the dog savages a kid because he wasn't simply a wild youngster in need of better manners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Rarely now adays do you find a trainer who bases there methods in correction...I think what Mr.McCaig is saying is that for field work, SAR work, competitive obedience, etc. you will not find trainers using PURELY positive methods of training...where there is NO correction...I am quite close with a few SAR trainers/field dog trainers and competitors and alot of there methods are similar to the ones I and other succesful trainrs/handlers use with competitive obedience.....MOTIVATION MOTIVATION MOTIVATION!!!! Fun, positive....with an occasional correction where needed.....but the people who train for these disciplines do not use the more popular "positive only" techniques that have become the rage with agility, pet and some people who consider themselves behaviorists... I would be very interested to hear him clarify what he meant. Because his exact words were "contra indicated" which in the dictionary means something along the lines of opposite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I would be very interested to hear him clarify what he meant. Because his exact words were "contra indicated" which in the dictionary means something along the lines of opposite... I'd be curious, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Rarely now adays do you find a trainer who bases there methods in correction... That is certainly not true in Western Canada. There is a training centre in Salmon Arm BC, where you take a 12 week course and become a certified Master Trainer - they are all compulsion/correction based training, including airplaning dogs, and these people are hanging their shingle out all over the place. One has set up shop where I live and ingratiated himself into our local SPCA, and two have just cropped up an hour and half away from me. Brad Pattison is now training people to become trainers, and he is a nut case - worse than Cesar Milan. Lots of complainants about his program At The End of My Leash, SLICE TV doesn't give a crap. Actually, if you say anything negative about him on any public forum, you get a threatening letter from his lawyers shortly thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mell Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well first of all, aggression in dogs are quite normal to whether what kind of species they're around with even humans. It's nature. But of course the good news is, you can ALWAYS do something about it. Visit this page for more information on dog aggression, how to stop it and other doggy issues --> [link removed by moderator]. They have over 250 training videos, expert advice, and tips. Their methods worked for my dogs. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfisher7151 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Remember everyone, you can ALWAYS stop aggression when you're a LEADER. Check out all his expert tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well first of all, aggression in dogs are quite normal to whether what kind of species they're around with even humans. I know this is a spammer who's already been removed. But can anyone make heads or tails of what the above quoted "sentence" is supposed to mean? It gave me a headache! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riika Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I know this is a spammer who's already been removed. But can anyone make heads or tails of what the above quoted "sentence" is supposed to mean? It gave me a headache! Uh, in my experience, spammers don't make sense...... *shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 No it makes no sense...It just reminded me of similar snarled-up sentences that I used to see in some undergraduate essays. In those incidences it would arise from the individual 'cutting and pasting' from another text (often in an attempt to mask plagiarism) and not bothering to proof read afterwards. Either that or English is not his native language. Though these days, I do find that the way that my iPad auto 'corrects' my words can make the resultant sentence completely different from the text I entered. Take your pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 My comment was tongue in cheek. I knew it was beyond deciphering. As for the undergraduate essays, I can relate. It reminded me of some, usually freshmen, essays where kids were trying really hard to use sophisticated language that was obviously beyond their current capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 My comment was tongue in cheek. I knew it was beyond deciphering. I realised but decided to give your query 'careful' consideration anyway....I mean the guy had gone to the effort of spamming an old thread that had ended almost 4 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 With these old threads it would be interesting to find out what actions were taken though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It would be, but the OP signed out several days before the original discussion petered out. Of course, by then it was pretty much only a discussion about the merits (or not) of behaviorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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