PiperNY Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm looking for my next Border Collie puppy and am looking for a red and white. I'm all for breeding for working qualities first and not looks (I've read Border Wars and loved it), but I figure it could be possible to have both? Does anyone know of any possible upcoming litters that might have some red/white puppies? I'm in the North East, but willing to travel or ship (though I'd obviously like to avoid the later if possible, less stress on the puppy). I wouldn't rule out rescue, but am looking to get a puppy from working/open level trial parents. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 If you get the whole "breed for working ability" thing, then why limit your potential puppy prospects to a specific color? Sounds contradictory to me, A ETA: However, I am positive that there are a LOT of red and white litters out there (along with all the other candy colors), whose breeders claim to have bred for work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiperNY Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 If you get the whole "breed for working ability" thing, then why limit your potential puppy prospects to a specific color? Sounds contradictory to me, A ETA: However, I am positive that there are a LOT of red and white litters out there (along with all the other candy colors), whose breeders claim to have bred for work Unfortunately I've definitely seen that a lot. But it's usually fairly easy to tell when you a dig a little if the person is breeding for color or true working qualities. I know that color limits puppy prospects, but I just figured that if I'm not in a rush to get a puppy, it would be possible to find a red puppy from great parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerdog (liz) Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't see a problem with wanting to get a specific color - chances are you'll end up with the opposite of what you wanted anyway. I sure did! I think DeltaBluez has a red/white but that is the first that comes to mind. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 There are some out there. I would talk to some people in herding circles; check www.nebca.net and see what trials are coming up; From there you can find lines that will have may have red pups. Everyone has preferences; tri color, smooth, B/W; flashy white, split face; so if your preference is red that is fine. don't rule out a good "other color" puppy if you find one though. If you let that be known that you want a pup out of working lines and your preference is for red, you may find that someone has a litter and there turns out to be a couple of red pups from a tri/BW or BW/BW; We continually get asked by local farmers/pet people when we are breeding our red/white girl. We bred her once to a tri...and got a B/W; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 If you get the whole "breed for working ability" thing, then why limit your potential puppy prospects to a specific color? Sounds contradictory to me, Some people simply have color preferences for their pets. I don't see what is wrong with that. I, for example, have ALWAYS liked the black/white color scheme. I had a white horse, I had a black horse, I have a black dog and two black/white dogs. It didn't start out on purpose, but I admit that it's now become "my thing" and I do narrow my choices down to only blk/wht. It makes it a lot easier when all the hair in your house is the same color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Well I would love a Kat mini-me (she's the red tri on the bottom left in my sig line). I recognize, though, that if I also want a well-bred working dog (which she is, though her lines are no longer available), my chances of getting a mini me are pretty slim. That said, I have nine dogs right now, so I can afford to wait. But I do realize that my chances of finding a pup from a good working breeding that also meets my mini me desire is pretty slim, so when I'm ready for another pup, though that desire will always be in the back of my mind, I'll look first at working litters I like for working ability and *then* hope maybe a mini me will be among them. Everyone who knows me knows I prefer smooth-coated prick eared dogs. And yet I still ended up with this: So you never know! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Shoot. There are lots of people on this board who have red and white dogs - and prefer them. I wouldn't call the reds a candy color. They have been around in the working dogs forever. Just not nearly so many of them as there are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 TC, It's funny though, because I was talking with a friend the other day and we noted that it seems that there are fewer red dogs running in open at trials than there have been in the recent past. That may be just a natural cycle, but I think also a real prejudice still exists against red dogs (a prejudice held by some of the most influential handlers in this country), and that prejudice may well influence what you see in the working world. Red will continue to pop up because it exists in some very important working lines, but there are relatively few red dogs trialing at the top levels. (Two of my red dogs were open trial dogs, but neither was bred--for various reasons--and I don't have any red replacements...). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Unfortunately I've definitely seen that a lot. But it's usually fairly easy to tell when you a dig a little if the person is breeding for color or true working qualities. Not quite. I can think of at least one breeder in the Northeast who has red pups from time to time (used to have them a lot more often). This is an Open handler who has done consistently well with the dogs. This person talks the talks and appears to be walking the walk. To anyone who is not completely and totally immersed in the local trial culture, this person would appear to be the perfect breeder to buy from. And yet there are several things this person does that makes them a terrible source for a pup, be it a pet or working dog. You can find a red pup from good working parents, but I really think you are going to have to willing to search the entire north American continent, make lots of contacts all over the place who can keep an eye out for you, be very, very patient and be ready to move on a litter with short notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 You can find a red pup from good working parents, but I really think you are going to have to willing to search the entire north American continent, make lots of contacts all over the place who can keep an eye out for you, be very, very patient and be ready to move on a litter with short notice. I suspect that will be the trick. Broaden your search, search diligently, and be prepared to travel or have a pup shipped, and that will increase your odds of having a red pup from true working lines a great deal. Cheers ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiperNY Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks everyone for the advice and input. I don't want anyone to think that I would just blindly get a red puppy from working parents just because of color. I have other criteria as well. I know I may end up with a puppy that isn't red if the situation presents itself and the perfect puppy comes along, and that is okay with me too. But I figure it doesn't hurt to look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Tommy, we won't mention Tae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 There's nothing wrong with have preferences, don't let anyone tell you differently. I'm still waiting for a red smooth prick-eared to come along. ;-) Let me know if you run across one in your search!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks! I'm getting my first BC puppy soon. The litter is 2 weeks old now and I'm eager to see them start transforming from guinea pigs to little dogs The sire is a smooth and the dam is long textured medium. Piper, I'd guess the above pups would have been ready to go home a week or two ago. Did the puppy not work out for you? Or are you planning to raise two puppies at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 There's nothing wrong with have preferences, don't let anyone tell you differently. I'm still waiting for a red smooth prick-eared to come along. ;-) Let me know if you run across one in your search!!! You mean like this one? Dam is a granddaughter of Tommy Wilson's Roy. Sire is a litter brother to Fieldstone Holly. I sold her about 5 years ago because we were not getting along. ETA: I had a deposit on the litter because I saw the dam at a trial and liked the way she worked. She just happened to carry red and the pup in the litter that fit me best was one of the red ones. After they were on the ground and the breeder knew there were reds she got a lot of calls from people wanting them, but they were already sold. While we didn't get along, she was a very nice dog. Two years ago I bought a relative of hers. Her dam is a granddaughter of essentially the same cross (same dam, sire was a litter brother). Her sire is related to the sire I would have used had I ever bred that dog, so when I heard the cross was being done I had to have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiperNY Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Piper, I'd guess the above pups would have been ready to go home a week or two ago. Did the puppy not work out for you? Or are you planning to raise two puppies at the same time? No two pups at the same time for me I ended up not getting a puppy from that litter and am starting my search again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 No two pups at the same time for me I ended up not getting a puppy from that litter and am starting my search again. Good luck! I'm sure you'll get many posts and PMs with suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyp Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 If you get the whole "breed for working ability" thing, then why limit your potential puppy prospects to a specific color? Sounds contradictory to me, A ETA: However, I am positive that there are a LOT of red and white litters out there (along with all the other candy colors), whose breeders claim to have bred for work I dont see why wanting a red dog is any different than those of us who have a specific Sex of dog we like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I dont see why wanting a red dog is any different than those of us who have a specific Sex of dog we like? Because virtually EVERY litter contains females while reds are not that common. To get a female all you have to do is pick out any good cross and be high enough on the waiting list to be able to choose your pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyp Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Because virtually EVERY litter contains females while reds are not that common. To get a female all you have to do is pick out any good cross and be high enough on the waiting list to be able to choose your pup. Well altho I myself dont prefer red dogs, If one has done there homework and finds a well bred RED litter or a litter with red pups, who are we to say Bad things about it. I DONT agree with breeding for color, But we all know there are lines that will produce them and some DARN good lines at that. so if the OP finds the right lines she likes and knows they have red, then so be it. I think it is good there are people who really want them, because most the Stock people dont. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Because virtually EVERY litter contains females while reds are not that common. To get a female all you have to do is pick out any good cross and be high enough on the waiting list to be able to choose your pup. Thank you Liz for replying in a much nicer tone than I would have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I bred Roo to Nan. Roo is red and Nan is a tri. I thought that I *might* get one red pup but imagine my surprise when I got 6 red and white and one black tri pup. Then I found out that Spot had red genes in the background (Nan's sire). Needless to say, I want black and white pups and I got a handful of reds. However, Nan and Roo are quite talented Open dogs. Roo has won/placed/ran in the USBCHA Cowdog Nursery Finals, Open Cowdog trials and qualified as a Nursery dog on the sheep. He also ran at the Finals in the Open class and is a consistent placer in Open (Sheep and cattle) Nan ran as a Nursery dog (Sheep) and also in the Open division. She has run in a few Double Lifts and is a top placer in trials. Her sister is Tommy Wilson's Sly and brother is Laura Hick's Jag. Both Roo and Nan are proven. I talked to my mentor (a big hat) on who to bred Nan to...and we did the Roo x Nan litter. It will be a good nick However once word got out that I had red pups, the emails came pouring in...color breeders, people who want a red dog for agility and breed, etc...the floodgates were opened, per say. Most of then started their emails with "I want a red puppy"....needless to say, none of them are getting a puppy. The handlers who are getting their puppies had their puppy order well before the breeding and when I told them the puppies were red, they all replied pretty much with the same words "Do you think my pup will be as good as Roo?" Roo and Lucy are red dogs from my kennels and have made their mark up here as top; Open dogs. Koko, a full red sister to Roo, is a top placer/winner in Southern CA but there are not many red dogs that run successfully in Open. Tess is the dam of Koko and Roo, and grandmother to Lucy. Tess was bred to Pleat and no one knew he carried the red gene. Luck of the draw, I guess. I am not going to toss out my dog because they are red. They are top Open dogs who just happen to be red. I prefer the traditional black and white dog. Tess is the perfect color for me. My perfect dog would be rough coat black and white and built like Tess. My top Open dogs are red/w white and a rangy leggy tri. My top PN dogs are a white head, med b/w medium coat and a flashy, swirly tri, hairy, huge male and a slick, floppy eared smooth b/w female. My upcoming dogs are smooth, leggy tri. I don’t know of any who breeds red dogs (deliberately) that I would get one from (All the pups are spoken for in case you were wondering) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thank you Liz for replying in a much nicer tone than I would have Seriously? If so, you'd have been making a whole set of assumptions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Everyone who knows me knows I prefer smooth-coated prick eared dogs. And yet I still ended up with this: So you never know! J. I believe we get the dog we were supposed to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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