What the Border has NOT been bred for article

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. Banner asks

 

" I think another distinction on the usage of herding is that humans don't herd, dogs do. So I don't go herding, I go work the dog. The dog herds. Is this right?"

 

In the UK, the shepherd is often called a "herd" but I have never heard anyone say, "It's a good day to go herding." Sort of like a priest saying, "Let's go priesting."

 

My objection to the "herding" term is Whiteheads "Fallacy of misplaced concreteness" - that because there is a name for a thing: viz "herding group" there must be an activity that the "herding group" does.

 

Donald McCaig

[Liz P]

And I wonder if a lot of the real dedicated working dogs simply do know who is their person that will provide them with the work they desire and crave and will make them simply have little use for others? Like you said, making them essentially a more or less one man type of dog. But it being more a choice than an inbred sort of flaw that needs to be socialized out! As suggested in the article?

 

One of my social butterfly dogs once tried to abandon me in favor of a handler who could offer her more work on sheep. I wasn't overly insulted because that is just the way she is. She doesn't care who you are, as long as you will pay attention to her and give her work to do. Carol Campion used to call her a social sl*t.

 

I own two of her sons (littermate brothers), one of which is the social butterfly type. He doesn't care who you are, he just wants attention. I once lost track of him at a rescue fund raising event. When I finally located him, he was sitting in the lap of a total stranger, tongue lolling out of the side of his mouth and an expression of pure joy on his face.

 

The brother is very much a one man dog. While in public he is polite and allows people to pet him, but he does not enjoy it. He is fiercely loyal to me and to people he knows well, but as far as he is concerned the rest of the world doesn't matter. The one man dog will work for anyone on sheep, but I've seen him quit on people who are new to him while he has yet to quit on me.

 

Their sire was the social butterfly type, wandering around at trials searching for someone, anyone to scratch his head.

 

The first litter of pups sired by the one man dog has a mix of personalities, some love strangers and some only have eyes for their human.

 

I did own a one man dog who, as he reached his golden years, mellowed to the point of wagging his tail when petted by strangers. Eventually he seemed to even enjoy it to a degree. My current one many dog is also mellowing a bit with age (4.5 yrs old), but he is not at all like my dogs who will throw themselves at anyone for attention.

[ShoresDog]

OK, Liz, now I'm fascinated and trying to deduce which one is which.

[Rave]

When someone says Borders I think bookstore.

[Liz P]

OK, Liz, now I'm fascinated and trying to deduce which one is which.

 

LOL, it's not a big secret.

 

Duncan = social butterfly

Flyboy = one man dog

Freya = SB

Sage (Scott x Freya) = SB (less so since being attacked, but still a SB in safe areas)

Frankie (Scott x Freya) = OMD

Juniper (Flyboy's grand niece, Freya's cousin) = SB

 

ETA, this list does not include dogs or pups I've sold.

[MaryP]

I agree with Jan that border collies tend to be more motion sensitive than other breeds. I'd say that this is the number one issue that I encounter with foster dogs, especailly ones that were allowed to develop inappropriate obsessions for moving things (dogs, bikes, joggers, cars, children, etc.).

 

I haven't noticed an unusual number of border collies with noise sensitivity, though, even though I've heard it's an issue with the breed. I guess it would depend on your definition of noise sensitivity, though, too. Does that mean that the dog becomes anxious, nervous, neurotic, shuts down? I've seen dogs that didn't necessarily care for loud noises (e.g., thunder), but they didn't shut down or tremble with fear; they simply showed some discomfort with the loud noise. Would that be considered "noise sensitive?" I've seen noise phobic dogs of all breeds and mixes, so I tend to think (IME) that it is more dog-specific than breeds-specific.

 

I don't care for the term "Borders." I cringe when I hear it or see it written. I don't give two hoots about the abbreviation "BC." That is all it is - an abbreviation for "border collie" and it is very common, especially on Internet chat boards, to use abbreviations. I don't think it's weird at all for folks on a border collie chat board to use BC instead of typing it out each time. And I don't think it somehow reveals some sinister affiliation with The Dog Fancy to do so.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

ETA: On socialness, I've not noticed BCs to be any more or any less social. I would agree, though, that they tend to be indifferent. I like that about my dog because it means that I can bring him to public places and he will ignore the people and dogs around him and just focus on what I'm doing. He is friendly to people, but doesn't need to socialize with them unless it is someone he knows. Then, he MUST go say "hi" to them (and often pees on their shoes in his excitement).

[PSmitty]

Then, he MUST go say "hi" to them (and often pees on their shoes in his excitement).

 

Alex=Charlie

[juliepoudrier]

...but sheep farms are generally quiet places and their sensitive hearing does not cause them problems. Urban and domestic life bombards our dogs with noise and this can cause them extreme stress. Be aware of this and if necessary protect your dog from excessive noise.

 

Sheep farms may be quiet places compared to the city, but I guess it depends on your definition of quiet. My sheep can be quite noisy. Farm equipment can be quite noisy. Farmers often have guns and tend to discharge them as needed. In other words, it's a gross simplification to state that border collies have acute hearing and therefore can't cope well with noise. Border collies do have sensitive hearing, and I like the recommendation to speak quietly to one's dog, but really, when training any animal, speaking quietly is probably preferred, and there are certainly other breeds that have noise phobias, so sensitivity to noises isn't exclusive to border collies.

 

Sheep farms tend to be relatively unchanging places, there are sheep, the shepherd and his family, the barn where the dog sleeps and an odd tractor or car. Sheep dogs don't generally need to cope with change.

 

Except if the dog(s) happens to go into the village pub with his shepherd. Or participate in round ups of sheep on public lands, where there would be strange people, strange dogs, strange vehicles, and strange sheep, and perhaps even strange terrain. This blithe explanation also doesn't explain how border collies in general can go to trials all over a country, meet all sorts of new dogs and people, work unfamiliar sheep (or other livestock) on unfamiliar terrain, all with equanimity.

 

Sheep farms tend to be isolated places. It is not necessary to be at ease with people to be a good working sheep dog. In a pet home our dogs are surrounded by many strange people in the street and visitors to the home. If you get your Collie as a puppy make sure he is sensitively socialised to people at an early age. If he is older respect the fact that he may find meeting strange people stressful.

 

I think this is a gross generalization. Most of my dogs are very friendly with strangers. A guy drove up the other day to deliver a flyer and my dogs mobbed him: "Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi!" I agree with the admonition to socialize your dog, but I think that applies to a dog of any breed. Unsocialized dogs might not cope well with strange people, dogs, things, etc., and socialized dogs generally will. This is not breed specific.

 

Apart from the familiar dogs with similar characteristics that live on the farm with them, working sheepdogs are unlikely to need to mix with other dogs. As pet owners we expect them to meet a lot of strange dogs, many with appalling dog manners, and often with our dog on lead so that it does not have the option of running away. Even if your collie does not react aggressively in these situations he could well be very stressed.

 

It's true that pet dogs might be more likely to meet dogs with bad manners. But as others have noted, my own dogs tend to ignore other dogs, especially if they're in the middle of doing something, whether that be chasing a pine cone or working stock. They have an amazing ability to tune other dogs, people, noisy equipment, etc., out. I have several thunder- and gun shot-phobes, and yet when they're working they don't pay any attention to such noises.

 

Anyway, I think the general advice the author gives is good advice--I just think that she's basing it on inaccurate assumptions about the lives of many working border collies.

 

As for "borders," it's generally accepted as Dog Fancy speak (i.e., it's a term used extensively amongst the AKC types).

 

J.

[brndlbc]

As for "borders," it's generally accepted as Dog Fancy speak (i.e., it's a term used extensively amongst the AKC types).J.

 

I wonder if that is a coastal thing because here in the midwest, most everyone refers to Border Collies as BCs, and "borders" are the terriers.

[arf2184]

Interesting article. The things mentioned in the article seem to be true for Meg to some extent.

 

She's sensitive to noise in that loud or unusual noises make her uncomfortable and sometimes nervous, but she does get used to and eventually ignore noises once exposed to them several times. She doesn't like loud people. She doesn't like to be approached by strangers and will back away. It takes her a while to warm up o new people. She notices even the slightest movement (even when she seems to be asleep). She does chase some things (toys, other dogs, birds), but she's not super intent on it.

 

She gets along well with other dogs, but doesn't necessarily want to play with just any dog. She seems to prefer to play with other herding breeds. Her favorite playmates at day camp are a rough collie, a German shepherd, a border collie mix, and a Belgian shepherd. She seems to think small poodles are to be ignored, even when they play bow in front her 5-6 times trying to get her to play.