ann_king68 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have had a lot of people ask me that if I ever breed my border collie-lab mix, that they would love her puppies. I'm worried that she's not AKC and I don't really know where she came from - genetics wise, would it be a good idea or a bad idea. I've got 12 people asking continuously, I know that they would all be going to great homes, I am not sure if it is responsible or not. My boyfriend and I have been discussing it recently since she has decided that our puppy is HER puppy, she will bathe her, look after her, take care of her and all. But how do you decide on the father(sire) of the puppies? Do you have to pay for the "stud service?" The only time I've ever been around a mother dog and her puppies is when I was around 8 and our dog went missing for a few days and we found her under the house and she had had puppies, that was the only time I've ever been around it. Bear is very sweet, calm-tempered, she loves kids and all animals, she thinks the hamster is her baby too, lol. I'm just not sure how to go about it. I know that I'm not too keen on getting her fixed, She's never been away from me for more than 45 minutes, even when I was in the hospital once, I was only gone for 4 or 5 hours and my boyfriend had to keep bringing her up to the window because she would "search" for me if I'm not there, even at work, I will have to call or she will keep bringing him the phone, lol, she's smart. I don't know, I think I'm just rambling now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Hi! I see you're fairly new here. I would suggest that you read the "Read This First" thingy at the top of the page. It will give you a lot of insight as to the general mindset of these boards, particularly regarding breeding dogs. Reading that should answer all of your questions regarding breeding your border collie X lab mix, A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Please, before you do anything else, read the "Read This First" section and you may understand the breeding philosophy of the vast majority of the members of these boards. And you will see that your thoughts are totally contrary to the general philosophy of board members on this issue. In addition, if you do a "search", you will find that the overwhelming opinion of this board concerning AKC is negative, not positive. AKC (or any other registry) is no guarantee of quality. That said, when you see how many thousands (millions) of homeless dogs are put to sleep annually in shelters throughout the USA, how could you even consider breeding your bitch, just to produce pets? Do you realize how many thousands of dogs and pups of all breeds are in foster care in rescues right now, just waiting for that forever home? When you consider that if your bitch had a total of 12 pups in her lifetime (the number of friends you mention), and each of those (on average) six bitch pups had 12 pups herself in her lifetime, and so forth, just how many dogs could be brought into the world that either might find themselves homeless and on the euthanization list one day, and how many already in the world dogs and pups would have died that could have had homes? Would you consider yourself responsible for each and every one of those pups on "down the road"? How about when one of those friends finds their life situation has changed, and they can't keep or don't want to keep that pup/dog? Or when that half-grown pup has outgrown its puppy cuteness and destroyed the couch? No responsible breeder would ever allow (much less charge) a worthwhile stud dog to be used to breed a bitch "just to produce pups because your friends want them". I am sure someone will say something much more sensibly and tactfully, but my mind is boggled by your post. Please, I hope you are intelligent and thoughtful enough to not consider breeding your dog, to consider having her spayed for her sake (and for the sake of preventing pregnancy and avoiding certain health issues), and recommend your friends check out the local shelters and/or dog rescues, and save a life. Best wishes with considering alternatives to breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Bad idea. Period. I can come up with no good reason for breeding a cross bred pet dog. Do a search on Petfinder for Border Collies and Labs. The numbers in shelters are staggering. Lots of these dogs will be euthanized for lack of homes. As well as the thousands that never even make it to petfinder. 60% of the dogs in shelters are euthanized each year. So go take a look and realize that 6 out of every 10 (perfectly healthy, playful) dogs will never make it out of the shelter. Besides, pregnancy and whelping is no walk in the park for your dog and numerous complications can arise. I know a local rescue just spent about $3000 for an emergency c-section with a BC that they had pulled from a shelter. Two out of seven pups died. Do you have this kind of money if problems should arise? Are you willing to risk your dog's life so you can have a litter of puppies to care for? And what happens if your dog has 10 puppies and you can only find homes for 5 of them? What are you going to do with the remaining pups? Keep them and care for them? Have them euthanized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 My suggestion would be to tell the 12 people who keep asking about mixed breed puppies to check out Petfinder.com. Lab mixes are a dime a dozen. They, and dogs of all breeds are dying by the thousands in shelters every day. Is there really a reason to bring more into the world? I believe breeding should ONLY be done by people who really know what they're doing, and have a valid reason for doing so, and nothing you've said indicates that you fit into that category. I know this is rude, and I'm sorry, but please think very seriously about this. Oh, and there are good reasons to spay your dog, unwanted puppies just being one of them. In most cases, she'll be back home with you by the end of the day. ETA: I'm slow, and see that Sue and Maralynn both beat me to it! Oh, well, great minds and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 To make this just a little easier here is a link for you. Please do read this as it will answer your questions: Click Here Now. If you're still with us, the folks on the Boards as a community believe it is necessary to prove your dog worthy of breeding before doing so. We believe that the way to prove your dog worthy of being bred is by training it to a high level of work on stock (that is: sheep, cattle, ducks, goats, and so on... whether it be for ranch work or trialing) and THEN making responsible breeding decisions based on working ability only. The truth is... there are lots of nice dogs out there with no homes - why breed under your circumstances? What would you be looking to produce? I'm sure many of us, at some point long ago - prior to seeing the light so to speak, had a dog we thought was the GREATEST DOG EVER and wouldn't we all like puppies from that dog? If you want to see some of those nice puppies just go take a look around in your shelters and rescues. There are SO many dogs out there needing homes and many of them come from just this scenario. Please, I urge you, consider spaying your dog. The practice of breeding dogs without consideration to proving them (for various reasons, usually just because) is usually referred to as backyard breeding. To become a backyard breeder of crossbred dogs as pets is not a good thing. Please don't do it. Please spay your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 The rescue I volunteer with has 52 dogs available for adoption, split between about 12-15 foster homes. Several of those dogs are either lab crosses or border collie crosses. 80% of our dogs are puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Everyone above is giving you great reasons as why not to do it, I'll give you one more, it's a good way to find yourself with a house full of dogs. Don't breed based on others saying that they want a pup from your mixed breed dog, unless you want puppies and are prepared to raise, train and care for all the pups that are the result of the mating, when you find out that your friends are not ready for a pup right now. When push comes to shove and puppies have arrived and are ready to go home many of those people will be no where to be found. I've seen it happen to many people that had their female bred only because "many friends" said that they wanted a pup from their dog. Send them to a shelter to find a nice puppy that needs a home. Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Border Collie/Lab is a fantastic mix. If any of your friends are interested in Border Collie/Lab mixes, there are many really really really nice ones in rescues and shelters. I got a gem of a Border Collie/Lab mix from a rescue years ago. She's the perfect pet, competes with me Agility, and is just a great all around dog. Couldn't have gotten a better dog if I had tried to breed to produce a pet for myself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Deb is making an excellent point. Unless you get cash up front, NON refundable, before the bitch is even bred you will most likely be stuck with 10 out of 12 pups born. Even if you do get cash up front and let them know the money is non refundable, people will back out at the last minute. That happens even will purebred litters from excellent stock. I knew a Border Collie x Lab cross that was bred by accident when she was 12 years old. She had 15 puppies. She couldn't feed them all, so they had to bottle feed until the litter was weaned (awake most of the night). The owners were left with 5 Lab sized dogs they couldn't find homes for in a tiny house on about 1/32 of an acre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 This may seem nuts to some of you, (but what else is new) The most effective argument I have come up with for the average person who is thinking of breeding their wonderful dog is not pet overpopulation or any of the other very good reasons cited above. People's eyes tend to glaze over when you trot out the ethics considerations. What really seems to swing people is poop math. Let's say your bitch has seven puppies. Each pup poops at least 4 times a day in the 6 to 12 weeks they are with you. (Providing you are lucky enough to get seven people who didn't suddenly decide they have to visit Uncle Greg in Manitoba because he's 93 and about to die - "Maybe we'll take one from her next litter!") 7 puppies times 4 piles per day = 28 piles per day, times 42 days = 1,176 piles in 6 weeks. That's a minimum of 1,176 piles of puppy poop you will have to pick up, less the ones you have to wash off of a squirming puppy. And that's if they don't get the runs, which is not uncommon. That's a lot of puppy poop. Are you ready? We could do pee math too, but I think you get the idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I generally type up an estimate for an emergency c-section done at 2 am, first vaccines, deworming and other medical care the bitch and pups might require. That scares most people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brndlbc Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 It goes way beyond "Read" This". Are you willing to partner the puppies new families through various situations such as basic training issues, house breaking, obedience etc? Are you willing to guarantee to some degree the health of the puppies? What are you prepared to do in the event that 6 of the 12 interested parties back out before the puppies are weaned. What screening process did you have for the 12 in the first place? Let see, what other things...... Are you prepared to do many feedings a day/night in the event that the bitch dies in labor or flat rejects the puppies? Have you tube fed/ bottle fed puppies in the past or have someone (mentor) who can teach you so you are prepared? are you prepared in the event that your dog is going to whelp in the house, to have your house smell like a kennel? Are you prepared to become your own rescue and take the now 2 year old puppy back because it's owner has become ill, has lost their house or, and yes it does happen, the dog no longer matches the furniture? As a former gun dog breeder, I can tell you that there is a huge "pain in the ass" factor that many do not take into account when it comes to wanting to breed dogs. If you do decide to breed your dog and I am not going to tell you either way (but I think you know my opinion) be prepared for someone to call you 9 years down the road and ask you to take the dog back for one year until the son graduates college because mom and dad are getting a divorce and neither wants the dog. Been there, done that I have a really nice, too young to prove in anything yet, puppy bitch. I'm not waiting to see how wonderful I can make her. She is getting spayed on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 There's no guarantee that any of your girl's pups will turn out "just like her" so your friends would be doomed to disappointment. One aspect others haven't mentioned is maintaining the general health of the dog. If you don't plan to breed (and it's obvious by now that it's not a good idea), spaying your dog is the best thing to do for her good health and to avoid an unplanned litter of puppies with an unsuitable mate. Your girl can easily stand to be away from you because she is sedated for the procedure. You will have to be the brave one about it. She sounds like a lovely gentle dog who is deserving of your best care. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 FIX YOUR DOG! Everyone here has awesome reasons not to breed ANY dog let alone a mixed breed. Three of my four fosters this past summer came from an ID Falls kill shelter. All were pure bred dogs. They have sooooooooooooooo many pure bred dogs come through there door it's mind boggeling The volunteers there work tirelesly, day in and day out, getting as many pure breds as they can into rescues. Most of these dogs are owner turn ins. they couldn't handle there dog after the cute puppyness is all over. Now add the mixes. Triple the number of mixes they get EVERY DAY from well meaning people who thought they could handle a dog and then took the easy way out. The shelter has started a poster style page on their facebook page of all the dogs that didn't make it alive. Heart wrenching at its best I hope those owners sleep well at night. Do you even know 12 people worthy of owning a BC? I compete in agility, dabble in sheep, working on rally-o and have tried just about any kind of sport I can drag my dogs into. Almost all of my friends are fellow agility people and VERY dog savy people. Bless their hearts, but I can only count on one hand (barely) the amount of people I know that should own a border collie. And to be fair, I am not worthy of their breed of choice either and I think most of my friend's dogs are the coolest creatures on four legs. Doesn't mean I should have one though. Off my soap box now. Back to skimming the 2 million petfinder pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 So many good reasons not to breed listed here. No really good reasons to breed. Should be a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 There have been many excellent responses about breeding, but I want to address another part of your post. You talked about how attached your girl is to you, and how difficult it is to be separated from each other. In addition to not breeding her, please, please, PLEASE teach your dog that separation from you for a brief period is not the end of the world. Believe me, you will need, at some point, to have someone else care for her due to any number of things - serious illness or accident to you or a family member, your dog's illness requiring an overnight stay at the vet, even bad weather or a major accident preventing you from returning home for a night. It does warm all our hearts, the devotion our pups show us, their humans. It is in everyone's best interests, maybe especially those of the dog, to train/socialize them to be comfortable without you. Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 As mentioned before a number of times, there are soooo many dogs that die each year shelters. Please don't be part of the problem. If your friends are wanting a border collie/lab mix, why don't you foster? No one knows or can guarantee who puppies take after. And even if they look like your dog, how do you know they will also have her personality? You don't. By fostering, your dog will have a playmate and you will learn what the dog's personality is like. Out of 12 friends, I sure at least one of them will like that particular personality. Then you can foster your next dog. Trust me, saving a life is so much more rewarding. By going to the shelter and evaluating the dog first, I have found shelter dogs that I bring into our house to be the most grateful, appreciative dogs I have ever met. And please, please spay your dog. Her life isn't worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 is this for real???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Do you even know 12 people worthy of owning a BC? I compete in agility, dabble in sheep, working on rally-o and have tried just about any kind of sport I can drag my dogs into. Almost all of my friends are fellow agility people and VERY dog savy people. Bless their hearts, but I can only count on one hand (barely) the amount of people I know that should own a border collie. And to be fair, I am not worthy of their breed of choice either and I think most of my friend's dogs are the coolest creatures on four legs. Doesn't mean I should have one though Aww come on now....this just sounds, I dunno, weird. You only know 5 or less people worthy of a border collie? I'm all for educating anyone that can be on these boards. But the above statement really makes us look sort of loony or dare I say clickish/cultish? I think about 3 or 4 answers to read the sticky would help, but all this and a click to boot? Maybe I totally missed the real point of the above statement. Can you set me straight in2adv.? I do not feel like everyone should own a dog, maybe even a few less a border collie but dog ownership or even border collie ownership is not rocket science. Now breeding...might be akin to rocket science (just to get back to the OP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Aww come on now....this just sounds, I dunno, weird. You only know 5 or less people worthy of a border collie? I'm all for educating anyone that can be on these boards. But the above statement really makes us look sort of loony or dare I say clickish/cultish? I think about 3 or 4 answers to read the sticky would help, but all this and a click to boot? Maybe I totally missed the real point of the above statement. Can you set me straight in2adv.? I do not feel like everyone should own a dog, maybe even a few less a border collie but dog ownership or even border collie ownership is not rocket science. Now breeding...might be akin to rocket science (just to get back to the OP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Sorry. That was pretty over the top. Just trying to get a point across and did it badly. I have way more than 5 friends that could own a BC that don't currently have one. I really sounded different in my head before writing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Sorry. That was pretty over the top. Just trying to get a point across and did it badly. I have way more than 5 friends that could own a BC that don't currently have one. I really sounded different in my head before writing it out. It was all those puppy poops. It'd make anybody lose it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Sorry. That was pretty over the top. Just trying to get a point across and did it badly. I have way more than 5 friends that could own a BC that don't currently have one. I really sounded different in my head before writing it out. I get what you are saying. It's not that I don't think many of my agility friends *could* own a Border Collie, but I don't think the majority of them would *enjoy* owning a BC. And most of them freely admit it and say they would never want one. There is a misconception that everyone who does agility eventually wants a BC. Not so. Mostly because they generally see the crazy, over-the-top BC at trials every weekend. lol As to the OP.... Spay your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I know that I'm not too keen on getting her fixed Hi, Your girl sounds like a real sweetheart=) And I know she's very special to you and your friends. You have received great advice and reasons not to breed...I've got one I didn't see mentioned yet...Pyometra...I know of several people with unspayed females that have developed pyometra. They were VERY sick dogs(one of which died). By the time you see the symptoms your dog is really critical. If for no other reason, this one is a very good one to get your girl spayed! Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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