New LGD coming

[stockdogranch]

After many years of getting by without one, I found I needed an LGD here at the new place. She is arriving tonight (by air), and is 8-9 months old. She has been raised with sheep and poultry, so she should have at least some clue as to what her job is. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting her acclimated to her new flock and her new home? This is totally new territory for me,

Thanks,

A

[bcnewe2]

Best age and wonderful that she's been with poultry with no issues. Sheep are ovbious....but poultry are a bonus!

I put mine in with easy going ewes or wethers. Supervise how the visit is going for a while then separate them but close as can be till the next day or later the same day, depending on your time. I also think the more time together the quicker it'll happen.

Do it again and again till I get comfortable that everyone is getting along. Sometimes I leave them together alone and sneak back to see whats going on while I'm out of site. If there's issues I'll holler at the dog in a neg. manner (which I haven't had one yet that doesn't get when you're pissed off) I keep doing that till I'm comfy and they're comfy.

I also will try and put a lamb with a kind momma (not all are that kind) in the same area, to see what the dog thinks and how everyone reacts.

This summer Lil saw her first lamb. I could see the whole thing from the house while I was on the computer. I watched Lil sooth the momma by laying on her side as close as she could get. The momma came over sniffed and stomped but Lil laid still, eventually the Momma got bored with Lil and seemed to give the lamb the okdokey to interact. By the end the little lamb was playing king of the hill on Lil while the Momma ignored the whole mess. Best interaction I've ever encountered.

 

I'm assuming a young dog will get smacked around by a Momma ewe which I take as a great thing, they learn young to respect momma ewes.

Do be careful that the dog isn't attaching to the lambs so much that she starts to steal lambs, ran into that one too!

 

Can you tell.....i totally love LGD's, they are as fascinating to me as a border collie!

What kind is she?

[stockdogranch]

Thanks for all the good suggestions. We'll be getting home after dark tonight, when all the sheep have been put up. I think I'll sort off some of my "school sheep"--the wethers that are used to dealing with young Border Collies with no problem--and put them in a separate enclosure for the night (fairly big, but very secure), and see what she does if I put her in with them. I'm thinking I may not get much sleep tonight :-)

 

Tomorrow, I am thinking of putting her with her same "safe" sheep in the catch pen in the corner of the pasture, with the rest of the flock in the pasture--so she can see them all but only has to interact with "her" group. And also so the sheep don't feel too far away from their flock. I've got lots of lambs on the ground right now, and some more to lambs before too long, so it will be interesting.

 

She's a 3 way cross--Polish Tatra, Maremma, and Spanish Ranch Mastiff--supposed to all be tight guarding style, and not as much coat as some other breeds.

 

Here's to a new adventure!

A

[abcollie]

Thanks for all the good suggestions. We'll be getting home after dark tonight, when all the sheep have been put up. I think I'll sort off some of my "school sheep"--the wethers that are used to dealing with young Border Collies with no problem--and put them in a separate enclosure for the night (fairly big, but very secure), and see what she does if I put her in with them. I'm thinking I may not get much sleep tonight :-)

 

Tomorrow, I am thinking of putting her with her same "safe" sheep in the catch pen in the corner of the pasture, with the rest of the flock in the pasture--so she can see them all but only has to interact with "her" group. And also so the sheep don't feel too far away from their flock. I've got lots of lambs on the ground right now, and some more to lambs before too long, so it will be interesting.

 

She's a 3 way cross--Polish Tatra, Maremma, and Spanish Ranch Mastiff--supposed to all be tight guarding style, and not as much coat as some other breeds.

 

Here's to a new adventure!

A

 

I would walk the perimeter of the areas I expect her to guard ... AM and PM (if you have time) before I would turn her "loose". So she knows what is HER property. Makes them feel more at home if you go with them for awhile.

[WWBC]

Sounds like a Lovetree puppy, you'll love it. I got one last Spring(my first LGD)after coyotes discovered, after 25 years, that I had sheep. He has been great to work with and is a good dog for staying in close. He was only 5 months old when I drove up and got him. He is settling in very well and no more coyote problems since his arrival. He is very smart and enjoys visits when I go to the field.

[stockdogranch]

You're right--she is s Lovetree pup. I've only heard great things about them; I hope this one turns out to be a success story, too. I'll keep everyone posted, as well as add some pics, cuz she's also cute!

A

[bcnewe2]

I totally agree with what Candy said, They are fence line fools, so if you can start early showing her what's her area it'll help later. Plus you might find she'll only potty there if she can. I haven't met a LGD that isn't a fence line pooer. It's a boundry marking thing.

 

Sounds like a great dog. What do you mean "tight" could that possilbly mean not as wandering? That'd be really nice!

[Laura L]

Hi Anna,

Bill Fosher's sheep forum has an excellent section on guardian animals http://edgefieldsheep.com/bb/ Mary Falk regularly contributes on there and so does Janet McNally.

 

Besides what's already been suggested, think about tying or kenneling the dog for the first couple of days. The main reason to keep a new LGD confined upon arrival is so that the dog gets to know you and her new property...you don't want her being startled by something and bolting for the north woods.

 

Walk the LGD through the flock while on leash and walk her around the pasture where she will be immediately guarding. She also needs to be acquainted with your dogs and vice versa (with a fence in between). Once you feel that the dog is pretty relaxed around you and your sheep (eating treats out of your hand) then I would experiment with allowing her off leash.

 

 

If she is not leash trained then wait a few days so she definitely knows where her meals come from and she is taking food out of your hand (shows that she trusts you) and then turn her loose with the sheep.

 

If the sheep are very skittish of her and don't relax around her then you may want to put her in a much smaller pen with about a half dozen sheep. Once they get used to her then turn them all out with the rest of the sheep...when the other sheep see that those half dozen aren't bolting away from the dog, then they will come around.

 

Laura

[stockdogranch]

Thanks--Bill's forum is actually how I found Mary.

 

Well, the smallish pen I had her in with a dozen calm sheep last night did not hold her--she's a Houdini. However, she stayed right in that general area (freaking lucky!!). Now she will follow me anywhere (like for the last 2+ hours), but won't get quite close enough for me to get her on a leash or a long line. My goal for the day will be to get her close enough to get her on a long line, so I can walk perimeters with her, and make sure she is staying fairly close to the flock. I am hoping to tether her in the pasture with her sheep. Meanwhile, I have had her follow me through the whole flock, and they aren't particularly phased by her. The ones with small lambs do a mild foot stomp when she is within 15 feet or so, and watch her, but nobody is bolting. While she was in follow me mode this morning (after realizing I wasn't going to catch her at that point), I had to get the sheep turned out of their night pen and into the pasture, and she didn't seem to have a problem with the border collie. She is wanting to stick close to where we got out of the truck last night, and fortunately, that is right near the pasture the sheep are in today.

 

What an adventure!

A

[Lana]

Very cool about the new LGD Anna. I second the suggestion that Bill's sheep forum is a wonderful resource. We have a 20 month old LGD out of Janet McNally's lines that has the same mix and similar lines to your new pup. She is a very close guard and i after loosing our beloved LGD Boomer this fall we are getting a pup of the same lines.

 

These dogs are so brave and loyal you really grow to love and admire them.

 

Raising them from a pup can be an adventure and the terrible teens ( 6 months to 20 months or so) can be some work, but like Janet i am sure Mary will walk you thru what to do. I loved having a new pup that came with instructions and help

[stockdogranch]

Thanks, Lana. I read on there quite often, and have been reading past threads for a while now about LGDs. She seems to like the place so far, as she got loose that first night and did not take off! She totally hung around where I initially got her out of the truck when we got home from the airport. Whew! Good girl! She seems focused on me for the moment, following me around all over (just a little distance behind). I coaxed her with some raw meat yesterday, and almost got her to take some from my hand. We got her caught up yesterday afternoon, so now I will have her on a long line so I can keep her where I need her to be for a while. She is very cute and sweet. I think she'll settle in pretty quickly, and the sheep had no problem with her presence at all (they are used to lots of dogs all the time). This will be an adventure, but I think it's going to work out well...

A

[Lana]

Our first 2 LGD we bought as started dogs so Ella was our first pup. We wanted her to respect e fence/net as we use it so often, so we started her in a paddock with e net. She got shocked a few times and learned to run to her sheep for comfort. To this day she wont challenge e fence.

 

I told Janet i wanted the pup to be ok with kids so she said to take the kids to the dog and sheep, never the dog to the kids. I some times have trouble catching the dog, Marty usually can't, but the kids always can

 

All of mine are ok with my collies ,but can get upset with new dogs, or rash young dogs.

 

Get a pic up when you can!

[Guest carol campion]

Hi Anna

 

You have had great advice.

 

I have had many and am introducing a new one right now myself. My sheep are used to LGDs, but not this puppy.

Here are some things I have learned from my mistakes and how I am approaching this guy.

 

To respect electronet from the get-go if you intend to use it. Put her in a smaller area where she is sure to hit it but make sure you & the sheep are not there. She needs to know the fence zapped her. Not you or the sheep.

 

Teach her to be tied. Very handy when trying to catch them. I tie mine when I feed them so that they learn to come to me. Again, tie her and leave and let her know the leash has her—not you. I know many people that cannot catch theirs when they want. I have had to wait an hour for a dog trial to start once because the guard dog got loose and couldn;t be caught. It would go after the dogs competing! I do not like self feeding because it makes using food useless to catch them or get them to come. (I am not guarding a large area so I can feed daily. Someone on a big property may not have this luxury.)

 

Initially I confine mine to a small enough area that they can bond with the sheep but can get away from the sheep as well—especially to eat. The sheep do try to steal their food. I start with a few gradually adding sheep to the mix and then after a bigger number have been introduced, I let them out in the open. By then she should stay with the flock.

 

Most will want to "play" with the sheep at some point til they mature. Scold them for it. My puppy is 16 weeks. I have provided him with big marrow bones and a few toys so he will entertain himself rather than use the sheep to do it. He is especially drawn to my Katahdin sheep with swinging tails!

 

I don't let mine get too friendly. Friendly enough they can be trusted and will come but not so friendly they will go with me or someone else. I wouldn't let her follow you. She may bond to you more than the sheep and think she is to guard you. Shoo her away back with her sheep if she follows you.

 

I never leave mine loose when working my BCs. This was advice given to me that was worth listening to. Some then start to play with the sheep if left to run along because it looks like fun.

 

I have started feeding this pup in a big crate because I could not get my older ones to stay in an enclosure like a dog house when the weather was bad. Not a prob for a youngster, but as they get old and arthritic, it would be nice to be able to see them be willing to stay in a dog house or something left nearby the sheep (my sheep are out all winter—no barn).

 

Hope this helps. They are a wonderful adventure. They are brilliant dogs with an intelligence that is different than a BC.

 

Carol

[Lana]

Anna you might ask Mary about the e fence and her experience. Janet told me the pup would be shocked and then she would look for comfort from the sheep. That is what happened with my pup, but Mary will know her lines. I know Mary and Janet's lines are know for being very aloof and Janet makes sure she has daily contact so she can hopefully catch her dogs.

[Guest carol campion]

Lana, you are right. I should have worded the fence training differently. You want to make sure the dog isn't looking at the sheep or you so won't associate the shock with you or the sheep. If she can run to the sheep for comfort—that's best. You want to make sure she doesn't think anything but the fence shocked her.

 

Carol

[stockdogranch]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Fortunately, e-net is not an issue here. Where I live was originally a cutting horse facility, so there are lots of (15, actually) fenced in pastures (totaling 100 acres) that I rotate the sheep in. That, plus some fairly rugged rangeland that I can graze when I want to just go hang out and watch sheep graze. Zen.

 

I think I have the new dog in a system that will work to get everyone used to the routine. She is much more accepting of me now, but is tethered with her sheep. The sheep are very tolerant of her so far; they are used to lots of dogs and people, as they are taken out to a different pasture every day and then put into their night pen each evening. Now she just needs a new name. "Fire" doesn't suit her at all. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow and get them posted,

Thanks all,

A

[Guest carol campion]

Best of luck and enjoy her. They are a wonderful experience!

 

Carol

[stockdogranch]

We had a pretty good day today. She has her crate (no door) in the sheep night pen, and seems to like that (she's tethered in the pen near her crate). The sheep pen is quite large, so there's plenty of room for everyone, and we had a set of twins born in there last night. She ate from my hand tonight when I offered her some raw beef.

 

During the day I had her tethered in the pasture with the sheep, and everyone seemed relaxed. She and my mare have already become friends. I will have to keep her tethered in the pastures for awhile, as I rotate between a lot of different pastures, so we are in a different one each day. I think once she's made the rounds a time or so, she'll get the routine.

 

Thanks everyone for the help. Oh, and I put a few pics in the gallery.

A