Ohio members please watch this

[MyTDogs]

Warning Tissue alert. I am not sure this is the best place to put this but it is politics. Moderators please feel free to move it if you think there is a better spot.

 

I urge all of the board members & especially those in Ohio to watch this video. Sadly, there is a Border Collie in the group too.

 

Nitro's Law

[geonni banner]

Thanks for posting this. I don't live in Ohio, but I contacted them anyhow. It would be awful if this bill does not pass.

[juliepoudrier]

I watched the video and it is horrifying to think about those poor dogs. I am all for animal cruelty being made a felony in every state, and then making sure that the laws can be enforced.

 

But I have a question too, and I'm not asking this to demean Nitro's owners' efforts to get the law passed, but just out of curiosity. Do people routinely send dogs off to trainers for long periods of time (i.e., long enough for them to starve to death) and not check up on them? How long does it take a dog to starve to death? Eight dogs died, and none of the owners ever checked up on them and noticed that something was wrong? I'm not trying to blame the owners--just trying to understand how a situation like this could have happened in the first place.

 

I know it's not unusual for people to send horses off for training and not see the horse(s) for a few months, but I have to say the one time I sent a dog off (for a month), I checked regularly and visited once a week. I'd sure like to know the whole backstory on this particular situation though.

 

The guy who starved the dogs deserves punishment, and I hope Ohio can bring its laws in line with most other states (for what good those laws are able to do), but I can't help but wonder about owners who were so out of touch with their dogs' care at such a place that they weren't aware of what was going on until it was too late.

 

J.

[gcv-border]

I watched the video and it is horrifying to think about those poor dogs. I am all for animal cruelty being made a felony in every state, and then making sure that the laws can be enforced.

 

But I have a question too, and I'm not asking this to demean Nitro's owners' efforts to get the law passed, but just out of curiosity. Do people routinely send dogs off to trainers for long periods of time (i.e., long enough for them to starve to death) and not check up on them? How long does it take a dog to starve to death? Eight dogs died, and none of the owners ever checked up on them and noticed that something was wrong? I'm not trying to blame the owners--just trying to understand how a situation like this could have happened in the first place.

 

I know it's not unusual for people to send horses off for training and not see the horse(s) for a few months, but I have to say the one time I sent a dog off (for a month), I checked regularly and visited once a week. I'd sure like to know the whole backstory on this particular situation though.

 

The guy who starved the dogs deserves punishment, and I hope Ohio can bring it's laws in line with most other states (for what good those laws are able to do), but I can't help but wonder about owners who were so out of touch with their dogs' care at such a place that they weren't aware of what was going on until it was too late.

 

J.

 

^^^^^ I was wondering the same thing. The only thing I can think of is that they,(or at least some of them) did check on the dog(s) - just not in person. Probably called to find out how they were?? And obviously this slimeball told them a load of cr**.

 

Whenever I have to leave a dog in the kennel, I always call to find out how they are doing - even if they are only staying for 2-3 nights. I know both dogs have been fine at the kennel before, but I still worry (Are they REALLY fine, by my definition, or are they fine, by someone else's definition which is not up to my standards?)

 

Jovi

[bc4ever]

In the Toledo area alone in the past few months, there have been two dogs who have been horribly abused--one stolen from his yard and shot and another locked in his cage outside while his owner and pal used him for target practice, then went inside, reloaded and took a few more shots for good measure. Amazingly, both animals survived. I'm ashamed and appalled at Ohio's disinterest in prosecuting idiots like these. This bill needs to pass to protect our animals from the two-legged ones out there.

[bc4ever]

This an article about the two cases in Toledo.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20101130/NEWS02/11300315

[geonni banner]

I watched the video and it is horrifying to think about those poor dogs. I am all for animal cruelty being made a felony in every state, and then making sure that the laws can be enforced.

 

But I have a question too, and I'm not asking this to demean Nitro's owners' efforts to get the law passed, but just out of curiosity. Do people routinely send dogs off to trainers for long periods of time (i.e., long enough for them to starve to death) and not check up on them? How long does it take a dog to starve to death? Eight dogs died, and none of the owners ever checked up on them and noticed that something was wrong? I'm not trying to blame the owners--just trying to understand how a situation like this could have happened in the first place.

 

I know it's not unusual for people to send horses off for training and not see the horse(s) for a few months, but I have to say the one time I sent a dog off (for a month), I checked regularly and visited once a week. I'd sure like to know the whole backstory on this particular situation though.

 

The guy who starved the dogs deserves punishment, and I hope Ohio can bring its laws in line with most other states (for what good those laws are able to do), but I can't help but wonder about owners who were so out of touch with their dogs' care at such a place that they weren't aware of what was going on until it was too late.

 

J.

Julie,

It isn't at all unusual for people to send their dogs away for weeks at a time for training. Especially if the dogs are getting protection training. Some trainers feel that the dog does better if it is separated from all things familiar to do the training work. Some obedience trainers do the same thing.

I used to have clients who wanted to leave their dogs with me for their obedience courses, and would try to convince me by offering substantial sums to do it. I always refused, as it is usually the owners who need work, more than the dogs. Teaching basic obedience to the average dog is a piece of cake - the owners, not so much.

Based on the breeds involved here, my guess is that they were supposed to be receiving protection training. GSDs, Rotties, a Dutch Shepherd, bully breeds - all "good candidates" for protection training. The poor Border Collie was probably there for being a "problem dog." Sort of like sending an unruly boy to military school.

What I don't understand is that the facility looked like a high-end, well-equipped plant. What happened with this guy? Did he go off the deep end?

[MyTDogs]

I watched the video and it is horrifying to think about those poor dogs. I am all for animal cruelty being made a felony in every state, and then making sure that the laws can be enforced.

 

But I have a question too, and I'm not asking this to demean Nitro's owners' efforts to get the law passed, but just out of curiosity. Do people routinely send dogs off to trainers for long periods of time (i.e., long enough for them to starve to death) and not check up on them? How long does it take a dog to starve to death? Eight dogs died, and none of the owners ever checked up on them and noticed that something was wrong? I'm not trying to blame the owners--just trying to understand how a situation like this could have happened in the first place.

 

I know it's not unusual for people to send horses off for training and not see the horse(s) for a few months, but I have to say the one time I sent a dog off (for a month), I checked regularly and visited once a week. I'd sure like to know the whole backstory on this particular situation though.

 

The guy who starved the dogs deserves punishment, and I hope Ohio can bring its laws in line with most other states (for what good those laws are able to do), but I can't help but wonder about owners who were so out of touch with their dogs' care at such a place that they weren't aware of what was going on until it was too late.

 

J.

 

Hi Julie,

 

I know what you mean. When I first saw the video I caught that the owners live in NEW YORK. Who sends their beloved dog to Ohio for training when they live in New York?!?! I too wanted the back story & so I did some searching.

 

Here is a news story with an interview with the owners.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7CE1kqcPcQ

 

I also read somewhere where they dropped him off with 3 month's supply of food. He went there in late June & was found dead in October. Apparently the Croley guy came highly recommended and he worked for the breeder when they got Nitro so they "knew" him. They called to arrange to pick Nitro up & the guy put them off, saying he needed a little more training. They say at that time that Nitro was likely already dead.

 

The guy apparently told the police he couldn't afford to feed the dogs. I think I read were he filed for bankruptcy (possibly to avoid the civil suit the owners filed). I also read that he is out of jail, newly married & has 2 of his own dogs back (they were 2 of the 4 thin dogs living inside the house).

[juliepoudrier]

Hey Cindy,

I did actually go back and find the story, though I didn't find all the details you've listed. I suppose this is an object lesson for owners who send their animals off for training--put your eyes on them regularly! (Cathy on the Fugly blog often cautions horse owners of the very same thing, because of the potential for abuse and neglect.)

 

J.

[sea4th]

Where these kennels were is right down the road from me. In reading some of the responses, apparently this low life, who got away with a slap on the wrist, IMO, is training dogs (whether solo or on his own, I don't know) in another nearby township. He needs to be kept under a microscope.

 

I don't want to even imagine the suffering these dogs went thru. Steve Croley's punishment is nowhere near enough to be considered "enough". And Ohio's cruelty laws suck, have sucked for years.

[brndlbc]

Here is a story from my "back yard"

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20101217/news/712189922/#ixzz18PgiyEjf

[Tommy Coyote]

Hi Julie,

 

I know what you mean. When I first saw the video I caught that the owners live in NEW YORK. Who sends their beloved dog to Ohio for training when they live in New York?!?! I too wanted the back story & so I did some searching.

 

Here is a news story with an interview with the owners.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7CE1kqcPcQ

 

I also read somewhere where they dropped him off with 3 month's supply of food. He went there in late June & was found dead in October. Apparently the Croley guy came highly recommended and he worked for the breeder when they got Nitro so they "knew" him. They called to arrange to pick Nitro up & the guy put them off, saying he needed a little more training. They say at that time that Nitro was likely already dead.

 

The guy apparently told the police he couldn't afford to feed the dogs. I think I read were he filed for bankruptcy (possibly to avoid the civil suit the owners filed). I also read that he is out of jail, newly married & has 2 of his own dogs back (they were 2 of the 4 thin dogs living inside the house).

I can't watch this stuff. Gives me nightmares for months. But why couldn't the guy just have called the owners and told them he couldn't stay in business and to please come and get their dogs?

[Laurae]

I tried to watch the video but had to stop after only a few seconds. Very tough to see.

 

I would never send my dog off to be trained somewhere unless I completely, 100% trusted the caregivers, but I did send my dog out for training for three months and never visited the place once during that time. This trainer (many of you know who I am talking about) lives in Canada, almost 1000 miles away from me, and driving up there in winter was not possible unless it was an emergency. (In addition, I didn't really want to disrupt my dog's training or leave him behind once I saw him again.) But, of course, I knew this trainer before I sent my dog, and I knew my dog would receive excellent care while he was there. Also, I spoke to him (and his wife) frequently on the phone and via email during that time. His wife also frequently sent me photos of my dog. I would (and probably will at some point) send another dog to this trainer again. But that is how someone can leave a much-loved dog at a training "facility" for several months without personally checking on him.

[juliepoudrier]

Laura,

The difference is that the stockdog trialing/training community is much smaller and therefore more intimate (in terms of knowing who does what and how they treat their dogs, etc.) than many other types of training, like what the guy in the original post offered. All you had to do here is give the location (country) and most of us in the sheepdog world know exactly who you're talking about. And your trainer of choice has a lot more to lose if he did something like the guy in OH did simply because if he screwed up like that he would be *finished* in the stockdog world. This guy could just pick himself up, move to another location, and start all over again, and unless someone was savvy enough to check into his background, they could blithely send more dogs his way without even knowing what happened in his past. The key is knowing the trainer, and I suspect that the folks whose dogs were starved to death didn't really know this guy in any substantial way. Like you, I wouldn't send a dog off to someone I didn't 100 percent completely trust, but if for some reason I had to leave a dog with someone I didn't know really well, I'd make sure to either check on my dog personally or find someone local who could and would.

 

J.

[Laurae]

Laura,

The difference is that the stockdog trialing/training community is much smaller and therefore more intimate (in terms of knowing who does what and how they treat their dogs, etc.) than many other types of training, like what the guy in the original post offered. All you had to do here is give the location (country) and most of us in the sheepdog world know exactly who you're talking about. And your trainer of choice has a lot more to lose if he did something like the guy in OH did simply because if he screwed up like that he would be *finished* in the stockdog world.

 

Yep. For good or bad, there are no secrets in this community.

[teganandjessmom23]

that makes me so angry I live in Ohio. I have worked at 2 boarding facilities as a groomer and kennel worker. the animals were so well taken of they didnt want to leave. I would go play with them on breaks and kissed them. I cried and looked at my dogs as they lay here sleeping. Thanks for posting.