steve clendenin Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I try to do just like a bitch does to correct a pup when it is wrong. I take it by the scuff like the bitch does and shake it just like she would do and in a rougth voice I tell it no and what ever else comes to mine. I make the pup sumit to me before i let it up and make it stay in a sumit stage until I tell it ok to get up. Might sound bad but being run over is a lot worse. I have a saying i tell my students let the pushment meet the crime and only you can decide what the punishment is for you dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I'm loving all this discussion, so much I agree with, had to add my 2cents. (remember, I said 2 cents...I haven't handled any dogs to Open (hmmm)or Ranch (uh, that's true) or even Pro-Novice wins (yep, all true)BUT!! I did win a N/N class once!!!) I can see how pups can get confused about going to stock when they are so young and we start in on the corrections for this and that. They're babies, and some of them have no real clue what they're doing, but they sure are doing it, and we go yelling at them, waving sticks and body parts etc., so they either run harder or quit. I agree with Steve about letting them be pups. I also have relied upon Jack Knox about pups and how they're neither ready physically or emotionally (maturity) to handle what's in their heads about stock and corrections. What's the age? It differs from dog to dog, but I seriously doubt 4 months is it for any pup. Putting them in with stock is training, so if you do it, you're training. Better be ready. Best way to do that is to make them your dog first, in life WITHOUT stock. Knowing their name, a correction and a recall will get you almost anywhere you need to go with a good dog who has an intact mind and instinct. Imagine letting a 10 year old kid drive a car just because he has the stature and the motor skills to do it. It can be frustrating to a pup to have all this drive and not understand why he can't just go at it. I am trying to be conscious of what I am asking of my pup every time I put an expectation in front of (her). Is she ready to be able to do this right? Like Jack says, make the right EASY and the wrong DIFFICULT. And I have done the Momma dog correction, it is the real thing, saved for matters of life or death. And yes, bring that pup to trials. The very first time I ever went to a trial was with my first BC pup, I went to Edgeworth, and he was a horrible embarrassment, wailing and straining at the fence behind the pen. I figured out THAT was wrong, but glad I went. He got to stay in the car after I (duh) figured out I was a problem. Make sure your collar fits good, and if you need to retire him to the car too, no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Debbie, enjoy that Novice win! Some of us are firmly entrenched at the bottom of the Novice class, and envy you! The only time I got a ribbon was when only six dogs got scores and there were ribbons to sixth place! I treasure that ribbon! (This is all meant in the best possible way, no offense, please!) I made a real mistake with my first real working pup - I took him to the stable with me all the time. He bacame focussed on wanting to control horses. He also was a broom and rake maniac. With my current pup, I avoided taking him to the stable and around the horses until he was a bit older, but I wish I had waited even longer because he still would like to work horses, even though he works cattle and sheep for me. I guess I wouldn't mind letting a pup "see" or watch the type of stock I would want him/her to work on but I think I would avoid exposing the pup to "stock" (chickens, horses, whatever) that I didn't want him to become interested in working. Just my opinion, from a VERY novice point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne Bell Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Once I asked my neighbor, an old farmer who works wih Border Collies every day (They "live" in the back of his truck), I asked him how to keep my young Border Collie from herding my horse every time I rode. "Well, I suppose you should just tell her not to" was his reply. He seemed a bit perplexed that I needed to ask such a question. I've since found much wisdom in his quiet response. My older female simply does not work horses, and my young dog won't work them when I'm riding because I tell him not to. When we are working at the barn on foot, I do find it necessary to tie this dog on a 4 ft chain. He quietly lies down and hangs out once he's restrained. I find this much preferable to constantly reminding him to stop eying the horses (or sheep). This might be an answer for the question about taking the pup along on chores. Simply tie the pup up while you work. Be sure that the pup is not allowed to "freak out" on the chain. Correct her if she barks or gets excited. The idea is to teach her to relax and "turn off" when she's tied up. This is something every trial or farm dog needs to learn. Just a few thoughts from someone who's trained only 4 border collies. Jeanne Bell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffy Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 I actually did tie her yesterday morning while I was over there and it went very well. I tied to to a tree with a horse lead rope and she just sat there and watched the ducks and chickens without even seeming bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Debbie Crowder, how the heck are ya??? Long time no see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hey there girlie!! Miss seeing you too. I am still back in the pen where I belong. See you soon? In order to make this a legit post, I was reading Glyn Jones' "A Way of Life" this morning...great stuff on puppies and starting them. I enjoy this Boards stuff, works well on slow days at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snook Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 . Simply tie the pup up while you work. Be sure that the pup is not allowed to "freak out" on the chain. Correct her if she barks or gets excited. The idea is to teach her to relax and "turn off" when she's tied up. This is something every trial or farm dog needs to learn.I agree, but I have a problem, His name is Moose and he is the most vocal dog I have ever come into contact with. He voices his unhappiness with situations loud and clear- sometimes it sounds as if he may be dying- I wish I were kidding- this is the reason our sweet pup is not crate trained- we and the neighbors couldn't take the crying. Does anyone have suggestions for keeping this vocal pup in line. If he is tied and doesn't want to be, or not allowed out of a room, or just not allowed to do something- like if we're training and working on down-stay, he is so very vocal, i'm not sure what to do about him. Things we have tried- firm "no" and praise when he stops. Water bottle. Ignoring him, this works for inside situations- but that's it. Any and all suggestions appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 I dunno Debbie, will be at Don Mcaigs, Bluegrass and Dr Bens...gonna be a slow trial spring for me. Post legitimizer: I hear Derek's puppy video is very good too! There, back on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounce Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 To add another 2cents, I don't remember ever correcting Bounce for bothering cats or chickens. I did give him hell over chewing on the goats and I am trying to overcome that mistake. Once I was able to let Bounce take charge, I noticed steady progress. Bounce will be 3 this summer and I've found he is much steadier and focused this year compared to last year. Maybe it's because he is on sheep now instead of goats. I guess this is our window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crasycowgirl Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 I have a 5 1/2 month old pup that has been barking at my horses and swinging off their tails nipping heels ie. ... now i have a finished reiner who is loosing her presious show tail over my pups bad behavior ... when i try to call her off she doesnt always come ... but i can put her in a down stay and retrieve her .... i havent diciplined her for fear of her loosing interest to work altogether (this is my first stock dog project and i am a little bit rattled thinking i am going to screw her up) ... how would i go about letting her know that horses are off limits when it comes to her hearding instincts ...what kind of dicisplinary techinque should i use .. a gruff voice just doesnt seem to work on this?? i cured her car chasing .. but i never let that go on .. i caught her the first time she decided this might be a fun game?? jill has been good to leave everything alone when i am not around but as soon as i am in sight she wants to show me how good she is at what she does ... this is very frustrating ... how can i teach her to leave the horses alone ... without loosing her trust or interest to work?? please help .... as well .... when i have her on a lunge line ... working sheep she never barks ... but as soon as she feels the horses need to move she barks ... i plan to some day graduate her to cattle .... how do i teach her not to bark??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyjabo Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 ...what kind of dicisplinary techinque should i use .. a gruff voice just doesnt seem to work on this?? i cured her car chasing .. but i never let that go on .. i caught her the first time she decided this might be a fun game?? [/QB] Thats going to be your biggest hurdle--- its easy to put a stop to an activity when it first surfaces- You may have to go up the ladder pretty far to get a good response now.And it will probably only stop her when you are around watching her. Kinda like an addict, they are always thinking of it even if they aren't doing it every time they think about it. But you need to do it-- dogs get killed by horses their kick is different than a calves-- then throw some shoes in......... or one day shes gonna grab the wrong horses tail and get the rider hurt. Remember shock and awe???? Whatever it takes to reach that level "specifically for her" is better "one time" than nit picking her over and over-mentally and physically.And I am not talking so much about how physical you get- more the attitude you approach it with. the dog has to "think" it came really close to you killing her-even if all you did was get in her face and shake your finger. Shame you will have to go this far... its not fair to the dog. But whats done is done and time to make the best of the situation. Since you never want her to work horses it will be ok-- And don't worry about the barking-- when she starts working if shes any good it will go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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