Gloria Atwater Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Greetings all ~ In the course of trying to educate myself better in matters Border Collie-ish, I'm looking at my two young dogs as athletes, something I've managed to not really think about for 20+ years. Ranch dogs just stayed fit, right? Well, anyhow, I'll have Nick in Pro-Novice next year and young Gael is coming along in her training, and I'm pondering information folks here have talked about. There are three nutritional supplements in particular that I've seen mentioned on these boards: K9 Energy Edge (edit: aka Glyco-gen), K9 Superfuel and Balanced Fat. I got the Energy Edge/Glyco-gen and both my dogs like it - but only so long as it's mixed with a dollop of milk. (I need a face-palm icon for me and Nick, my little princess.) I can't *see* any notable difference but I feel better giving my dogs something after a good workout. But I'm also pondering the K9 Superfuel and the Balanced Fat. Good food is the foundation of a healthy working dog, but when a dog is really putting it out there for us, it strikes me that just like a human athlete, he could use a little boost and support. So, how many of you use the Superfuel and/or Balanced Fat, and what do you think of it? How much do you use and when do you use it? If you use other supplements, what are they and what can you say about them? Just curious, not even sure I've phrased good questions, but there, let's see what answers I get. Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Dear Doggers, In the UK, for centuries Border Collies survived on maize (corn), dead sheep and lambs. I emphatically am no nutritionist but have noticed that most reported problems come from too hot rather than too mild diets. A couple years back, my Luke developed a lick granula which my vet cured with amitryptiline (doggy prozac). Problem was: Luke stopped listening on the trial course. I spoke with Wendy Volhard whose dog interest has expanded from drive training to nutrition. She recommended that when traveling/trialing I go to two feedings daily instead of one and feed her supplement http://www.volhard.com/pages/endurance.php , either mixed with water and added to food or sprinkled over the food. Friends who care more about nutrition than I do say it's a distillation of a raw diet. Dunno. I do know that I stopped the amitryptiline, Luke started listening again and the lick garnula didn't reappear. Now, when traveling, I add a small amount of Endurance to my dog's kibble, morning and night. Donald McCaig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 A couple years back, my Luke developed a lick granula which my vet cured with amitryptiline (doggy prozac). Problem was: Luke stopped listening on the trial course. A correction: Amytriptiline is not Prozac, it's the generic for Elavil and a couple other brand names. Prozac is fluoxetine, a different type of anti depressant, with a different type of chemistry. Not the same thing at all. Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 I use the K9 Superfuel. I only use it when they are working hard. I give half a scoop about 10 minutes after they are done, mixed with water, and they can drink as much or as little as they want. General daily chores I don't use it. I've had both my vets read the label and question the company, they both gave a thumbs up to it and said to use it daily for one of the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Interesting topic. I hope to learn more as others weigh in. At a lecture on feeding livestock, I heard a vet say that ~80% of the problems he treats, he believes are due to poor nutrition. It was a light bulb moment and since then, I have tried to be (somewhat) informed about good nutrition. What do people think about Glycogen Energy Shakes and Bones (www.fidosadvantage.com)? I came across the vendor at a small table at the National Sheepdog Finals and took some of their promotional material. Has anyone used this? Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 I use it when my dogs are in hard training. I think it helps them recover better and handle more training the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Toward the end of his career, Craig would sometimes become a little wobbly after working hard, especially at a trial. If I gave him Glycogen, he recovered much quicker than if I didn't. (Left in the cab of my truck once to witness Scott working with Taz and me for a couple of hours, Sophie once ate an entire bag of the biscuits in a frenzy and proceeded to vomit all over my new truck. Be careful where you store it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 This is an interesting study and why i started using Glycogen http://www.purinaproclub.com/sportingdog/P...%20Exercise.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 I've been using the Energy Edge for a number of years now. The dogs love it (mixed with water!), and I do believe it helps them. I don't use it during routine work, but mostly when we are doing setout--long, hard work days, or when it's particularly hot out. I know it perks them up during the work, and I also think it helps keep them from getting stiff for the next day. I also used it this past year at cattle finals--gave it to my 9 year old before the double lift run. I don't worry so much about adding fat, as they eat raw (lots of lamb, which is pretty fatty), A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Greetings all ~ In the course of trying to educate myself better in matters Border Collie-ish, I'm looking at my two young dogs as athletes, something I've managed to not really think about for 20+ years. Ranch dogs just stayed fit, right? Well, anyhow, I'll have Nick in Pro-Novice next year and young Gael is coming along in her training, and I'm pondering information folks here have talked about. There are three nutritional supplements in particular that I've seen mentioned on these boards: K9 Energy Edge, K9 Super Fuel, and Balanced Fat. I got the Energy Edge and both my dogs like it - but only so long as it's mixed with a dollop of milk. (I need a face-palm icon for me and Nick, my little princess.) I can't *see* any notable difference but I feel better giving my dogs something after a good workout. But I'm also pondering the K9 Superfuel and the Balanced Fat. Good food is the foundation of a healthy working dog, but when a dog is really putting it out there for us, it strikes me that just like a human athlete, he could use a little boost and support. So, how many of you use the Superfuel and/or Balanced Fat, and what do you think of it? How much do you use and when do you use it? If you use other supplements, what are they and what can you say about them? Just curious, not even sure I've phrased good questions, but there, let's see what answers I get. Cheers ~ Gloria Gloria, Ask the trainer from whom you take lessons. That trainer should know your dogs and know what you are doing with them in the way of work and can guide you in the use of additives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Greetings all ~ Just a quick note to say I'm really enjoying reading, so do continue discussion! Shoofly, now I feel even better about using Glyco-Gen! Great article, thanks for sharing. C Crocker, I've only started working with a professional Open trainer this summer, and it's but once a month since she lives 3 hours away. But yours is a logical suggestion, so I'll ask her. Thanks everyone, and I hope to read more when I've a few moments to ponder. Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 The founder of K 9 energy edge http://www.k9energyedge.com/ Angie Untisz DVM is one of my closet friends. She developed this product for herslef when her working dog starting tying up/staggers after excrerise.(exertional rhabdomyolysis - ER) occurs when the dog runs out of conventional sources of energy and starts breaking down it's muscle to provide energy. What we see is a dog "hitting the wall", weakness, staggering, extreme panting and loss of cognitive function. If enough muscle tissue breaks down, myoglobin (the oxygen carrying molecule in muscle tissue) builds up in the blood and excreted in the urine, turning the urine a reddish brown color. She found little knowlege in her own community, so she turned to the sleddog folks. She started taking her homemade product to dog trials for her own use and people started to ask for it. After a few years of selling and giving to folks at dog trials she deveopled the current product. I have been on the range moving cattle/pairs all day in the heat with only the water that you can pack on your horse. I have had dogs hit the wall, and i know energy edge save one of my dogs life on two different days. Unlike sugar glycogen does not draw water into the stomach. You can use a very small amount of water and i have used the powder in a plastic baggie with a very little water. When trailing sheep on the road my dogs often sprint for 2 or more hours on blacktop, into waist high crops and fallow fields with deep sand. I always carry some energy edge with me and my older dog Kell gets it as soon as the drive is over. The other time i like the energy edge is if an older dog is working for several days in a row, trial or ranch work. The glycogen goes into to the muscle and the dog is much less sore the day after difficult work. I also don't subscribe to the high protein food makes dogs hot. I feed high protein low fat and add balanced fat when the dogs are in the peak working season. I feed my dogs like the athletes and work partners that they are. I cant say as i get all all excited about what people in other countries do with THEIR dogs but....Nij Vyas actually mentions Dr Unisz's product in his book "Sheepdog training and trials" Angie does not make a lot of money off of this, it is small operation started for the love of the dogs. Gloria i always have some with me and i will be glad to let you give it a try. I think watching how much faster a dog recovers with the energy edge is really an eye opener. I have been at trials with extreme heat and seen dogs that were staggering recover quickly when given some energy edge. I also like that this product has ONLY glyogen, no added ingredients like electrolytes, which dogs dont need unless they are puking or have diarhea. Lana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 I give my dogs Energy Edge. I think or about as long as it has been on the market. It's is awesome. Nan will wobble after her run on a hot day and I give her the Edge and she recovers quickly. With the old dog, Tess she was the energy for the second day run (10 yrs old etc...until I retired her). It has made a hude difference in my dogs, especially on recovery and second day being able to run. God Bless Angie for develping it! I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Greetings all ~ Just a quick note to say I'm really enjoying reading, so do continue discussion! Shoofly, now I feel even better about using Glyco-Gen! Great article, thanks for sharing. C Crocker, I've only started working with a professional Open trainer this summer, and it's but once a month since she lives 3 hours away. But yours is a logical suggestion, so I'll ask her. Thanks everyone, and I hope to read more when I've a few moments to ponder. Cheers ~ Gloria Hi Gloria, I suggested your trainer because she is also my trainer and she directed me to Energy Edge in 2006. But I thought she could guide you on how to use it according to your dogs and their work. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 The founder of K 9 energy edge http://www.k9energyedge.com/ Angie Untisz DVM is one of my closet friends. She developed this product for herslef when her working dog starting tying up/staggers after excrerise.(exertional rhabdomyolysis - ER) occurs when the dog runs out of conventional sources of energy and starts breaking down it's muscle to provide energy. What we see is a dog "hitting the wall", weakness, staggering, extreme panting and loss of cognitive function. If enough muscle tissue breaks down, myoglobin (the oxygen carrying molecule in muscle tissue) builds up in the blood and excreted in the urine, turning the urine a reddish brown color. She found little knowlege in her own community, so she turned to the sleddog folks. She started taking her homemade product to dog trials for her own use and people started to ask for it. After a few years of selling and giving to folks at dog trials she deveopled the current product. I have been on the range moving cattle/pairs all day in the heat with only the water that you can pack on your horse. I have had dogs hit the wall, and i know energy edge save one of my dogs life on two different days. Unlike sugar glycogen does not draw water into the stomach. You can use a very small amount of water and i have used the powder in a plastic baggie with a very little water. When trailing sheep on the road my dogs often sprint for 2 or more hours on blacktop, into waist high crops and fallow fields with deep sand. I always carry some energy edge with me and my older dog Kell gets it as soon as the drive is over. The other time i like the energy edge is if an older dog is working for several days in a row, trial or ranch work. The glycogen goes into to the muscle and the dog is much less sore the day after difficult work. I also don't subscribe to the high protein food makes dogs hot. I feed high protein low fat and add balanced fat when the dogs are in the peak working season. I feed my dogs like the athletes and work partners that they are. I cant say as i get all all excited about what people in other countries do with THEIR dogs but....Nij Vyas actually mentions Dr Unisz's product in his book "Sheepdog training and trials" Angie does not make a lot of money off of this, it is small operation started for the love of the dogs. Gloria i always have some with me and i will be glad to let you give it a try. I think watching how much faster a dog recovers with the energy edge is really an eye opener. I have been at trials with extreme heat and seen dogs that were staggering recover quickly when given some energy edge. I also like that this product has ONLY glyogen, no added ingredients like electrolytes, which dogs dont need unless they are puking or have diarhea. Lana A definate YES to everything Lana wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Oh, gosh, Carolyn, do I know you and just don't know it? That would be about my style. Anyhow, Carolyn and Lana, I've been using the Energy Edge aka Glyco-gen, (need to order more) and y'all have made a believer out of me. Hearing first-hand testimonials is the kind of thing I was looking for. I will talk to Suzy, though, soon as I can. She's not the quickest emailer .... Thanks again, guys. I want to do right by my canine athletes. Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Oh, gosh, Carolyn, do I know you and just don't know it? That would be about my style. Anyhow, Carolyn and Lana, I've been using the Energy Edge aka Glyco-gen, (need to order more) and y'all have made a believer out of me. Hearing first-hand testimonials is the kind of thing I was looking for. I will talk to Suzy, though, soon as I can. She's not the quickest emailer .... Thanks again, guys. I want to do right by my canine athletes. Cheers ~ Gloria No we have not met but I knew Morgen brought a friend down for lessons initially and I thought you were the friend. Maybe we will meet at Spencer's? Suzy is sometimes not fast to email back but I am happy to say that's becasue she's out working the dogs in training! or doctoring sheep, ....... Like Lana , Suzy , and most I use Energy Edge strategically. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I'll be at Pt. Pleasant at least one of the days. Let me know when your run is, and I'll get some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted October 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 No we have not met but I knew Morgen brought a friend down for lessons initially and I thought you were the friend. Maybe we will meet at Spencer's? Suzy is sometimes not fast to email back but I am happy to say that's becasue she's out working the dogs in training! or doctoring sheep, ....... Like Lana , Suzy , and most I use Energy Edge strategically. Carolyn Carolyn, Morgen did bring me down the first time, so it's entirely possible we did cross paths and I'm simply having a brain fart. I was pretty intimidated by meeting Suzy the first time, so I was more distracted than usual. Strategic Energy Edge usage sounds like the way to go. I've ordered a re-supply, but I will talk to Suzy about it. Thanks again! Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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