LOL Freestyle

[jdarling]

Is a dog taking a jump in an Obedience competition doing Agility?

 

I'm not sure this is a good correlation to try to draw. The dog in the video is doing much the same things as what the layman would see in a freestyle routine. I, personally, (i.e. a "layman") don't see the difference, which is why I was asking.

 

If someone sends a Lab into a round pen with sheep and train him to do an outrun, is he doing stockwork?

 

Yes. He is. If the dog can do the work, it doesn't matter what type of dog it is.

 

There are some things about the overall performance that makes it something very different. The way the dog is being handled, the types of movement that the dog is being asked to do, the way that the dog and handler interact throughout the performance, etc

 

So nothing real specific, it seems. This doesn't really clarify anything, but that's ok. I will take your word for it.

[jdarling]

In the broad sense of the term freestyle, what this guy is doing with his dog *is* freestyle. In the competition sense of the term freestyle, it is not.

 

Kristine, this sums it up pretty well, yes?

[Root Beer]

I'm not sure this is a good correlation to try to draw. The dog in the video is doing much the same things as what the layman would see in a freestyle routine. I, personally, (i.e. a "layman") don't see the difference, which is why I was asking.

 

I can see why it would look the same to you - seriously. I'm not saying that to sound snotty or anything. I'm looking at it with a very different eye and from a very different point of view. I can see why it doesn't look different to those who don't have firsthand experience with the sport. But I can also see why it looks like something different to someone from within the sport (like D'Elle).

[Root Beer]

Kristine, this sums it up pretty well, yes?

 

In the sense that Agility to music could be, in some very loose sense, considered "Freestyle". Or, in a very loose sense, that Frisbee Freestyle is Musical Freestyle, then yes.

 

I don't use the term that broadly, even when not discussing competition. But others might. Just like some would call anything to do with dogs and sheep "herding".

 

I don't think it's uncommon for those who participate or are very familiar with a discipline to use terminology a little more precisely than those who do not participate or are not as familiar with it.

[Maja]

Just like some would call anything to do with dogs and sheep "herding".

I would go even farther and say that people who don't herd have the annoying habit of calling just about anything a BC does as herding - he is herding the ball, he is herding cars, he is herding kids, frisbees. On the other hand, one of my friends commented on one of my herding vid saying, "It looks like the sheep are following you very diligently, and Bonnie is drifting needlessly on the peripheries"

 

I think it's similar with the freestyle. To me the vid does not look like a freestyle. I don't do it myself, but I have been an interested observer. It seems to me, though as I said I am just an observer, that the predominant approach in freestyle is to use as much as possible of dog's naturalness, to use his "dogginesss" for a lack of a better word as of the human-dog team whose movement should be in harmony with the music. The video seems to base on the old circus act of an "almost human dog" where the purpose was to make the dog as much like human dancer as possible. To me this is the main difference.

 

Here is an example of free style as I see it being in the spirit of the sport (the comments at the end are informative too).

 

Maja

[Root Beer]

I think it's similar with the freestyle. To me the vid does not look like a freestyle. I don't do it myself, but I have been an interested observer. It seems to me, though as I said I am just an observer, that the predominant approach in freestyle is to use as much as possible of dog's naturalness, to use his "dogginesss" for a lack of a better word as of the human-dog team whose movement should be in harmony with the music. The video seems to base on the old circus act of an "almost human dog" where the purpose was to make the dog as much like human dancer as possible. To me this is the main difference.

 

That's an excellent point. I wouldn't have thought how to word that, but you really hit the nail on the head.

 

You might see a cute move or two in a Freestyle routine where the dog might move as a human would. But the majority of a Freestyle routine showcases the dog's movement as a dog. Spinning (on all fours), weaving, bowing, lifting paws, rolling over, trotting, prancing, etc. The kind of things that dogs do.

 

And maybe that ties in with the "dignity of the dog" idea, as well. Not that wearing a dress or moving as a human would embarrasses the dog, but it does not showcase the dog's beauty, intelligence, and abilities as a dog. Those might seem like strange ideas, but that is as much a part of Freestyle as music and choreography is.

 

The goal of Freestyle is not to have the dog move in a way that is as human-like as possible. It is to showcase the dog as a dog.

 

Again, I'm not saying performing with a dog in this way is wrong or bad. But yes, I do consider this performance to be more in the spirit of a circus act than in that of a Freestyle routine. Which is better is certainly in the eye of the beholder. But there is a difference.

[jdarling]

... whereas the guy in the video had the dog on her hind legs the entire time and it looked more like one big, long doggie trick rather than the elegant "dance" that freestyle is. I could see that. That makes more sense. Maja, thanks for the video. One of the better freestyle routines I've seen. While I like the big guns, like the woman who does the Charlie Chaplin routine, etc., there's something about that one that is so ... smooth. I like the big, sweeping circles and how that tied in with the music. Pretty cool. And one of the first things they said at the end was something about overuse of one particular move. There isn't much variety to the guy/dog in the video, but it's fun all the same. Doesn't look like he or the dog have had any formal training, but the dog is still about as charming as they get.

[Maja]

Jodie,

I'm glad you like it, and I like it for the same reasons .

Maja

[juliepoudrier]

What I liked best about the video Maja posted was the dog's wagging tail. She seemed to be enjoying her routine.

 

J.

[2 Devils]

The video is cute and I would call it dancing with a dog.

 

As for the dog walking/jumping on its back legs, well, some dogs do those types of things as a preference at times. As someone said this dog likes walking on its back legs mainly. I knew a dog that walked on its front legs mainly. Yes this type of walking long term may not be great for the dog but then again it is not our dog.

 

After TPLO surgery, some of the rehab exercises was working on teaching my acd to walk on her back legs while I held her front legs. At the same time, we would also shift her body side to side... and yes we did add some other exercises into the mix but she spent a lot of time on her back legs. I an guarantee it was probably 10-15 minutes out of 25 or so minutes. If I felt the thighs on that dog, I would probably be envious.

[border_collie_crazy]

While I like the big guns, like the woman who does the Charlie Chaplin routine, etc.,

 

Attila Szkukalek, who does the Charlie Chaplin, Gladiator etc.. routines is a guy

[jdarling]

Attila Szkukalek, who does the Charlie Chaplin, Gladiator etc.. routines is a guy

 

Oh you're right. It was

dog I was thinking of. (Besides, who looks at the handler during these routines? )

[D'Elle]

D'Elle, which venue do you compete (or participate) with?

 

I'm just asking out of friendly curiousity.

 

 

Jester and I are fortunate enough to dance with the Tucson Musican Canine Freestyle Club. We do demos of Freestyle all over town at various venues, and have also several times gone out of town for special events. Our purpose is to introduce people to Freestyle as a sport and as a fun activity that you can do with your dog. We emphasize positive reinforcement training, and our goal in doing public demos is to encourage people to do more things with their dogs, thereby strengthening the bond between them, and hopefully improving life for some dogs by giving them and their people encouragement to do things together.

 

We do not dress up our dogs, except with a fancy collar here and there, or perhaps a bandanna or necktie, and our own costumes are carefully chosen not to overshadow our dogs. We are very careful about hind leg work, and make a point of not asking the dogs to stay on their hind legs for very long at a time, or not at all, depending on the dog. The moves we teach our dogs are calculated to be appropriate for each dog's physical capabilities and limitations, and our routines are designed to showcase the dogs, not ourselves.

 

I object to the video because in essence the dog is being made to imitate a person, by wearing a skirt and being on her hind legs the whole time. To me that is not honoring the dignity of a dog, who should, in my opinion, be showcased as a *dog*.

[D'Elle]

So really perhaps all the up in arms, panties in a bunch, whatever comments to this topic are ....................

 

J.

 

 

By the way, just want to say that if anyone is "all up in arms" or has their "panties in a bunch" or whatever, it isn't me.

It takes a lot more than that to get me riled up!

I did not say it was Wrong or Bad and don't need to have it pointed out to me that there a million truly bad and wrong things being done to dogs every hour.

I just expressed a mild comment, is all.

That's all.

[juliepoudrier]

By the way, just want to say that if anyone is "all up in arms" or has their "panties in a bunch" or whatever, it isn't me.

It takes a lot more than that to get me riled up!

I did not say it was Wrong or Bad and don't need to have it pointed out to me that there a million truly bad and wrong things being done to dogs every hour.

I just expressed a mild comment, is all.

That's all.

Well and while you're calling *my* comments out on this, let me say that I wasn't specifically referring to you but to all the related comments reacting to the *OP's* use of the term "freestyle" when in fact the video is actually titled something like "Amazing dog dancing the merengue." I don't object to people correcting Mary for having called something "freestyle" that in the opinion of freestyle competitors is *not* freestyle, but it seemed a little over the top to me.

 

As someone who is very involved in doing Canine Musical Freestyle, my opinion is that this video is *not* cool or fantastic at all. For any dog, especially a large breed, to spend so much time on hind legs is not healthy. It can lead to damage in the hind legs and many problems and is highly discouraged by true freestyle practitioners. And the "costume" that the dog wears is really not appropriate; it is not dignified for the dog.

So what, exactly, are you saying here? That "not cool" isn't the same thing as "wrong" or "bad" and that "not dignified" is not saying it's "bad" or that "not healthy" is not implying it's wrong or bad? Back at ya. Sheesh.

 

J.

[geonni banner]

I'm not the first person to bring this here, but I think it is singularly appropriate here...

[mbc1963]

Ummm... just FYI, I am utterly unperturbed if anyone here has corrected my use of the term "freestyle." People can define their hobbies however they want, and I don't care if I'm wrong about this being freestyle. I'm not insulted, my feathers are not ruffled, and had I been aware earlier that anyone supposed those things might be true, I would have corrected the notion earlier.

 

Mary

[D'Elle]

Well and while you're calling *my* comments out on this, let me say that I wasn't specifically referring to you but to all the related comments reacting to the *OP's* use of the term "freestyle" when in fact the video is actually titled something like "Amazing dog dancing the merengue." I don't object to people correcting Mary for having called something "freestyle" that in the opinion of freestyle competitors is *not* freestyle, but it seemed a little over the top to me.

So what, exactly, are you saying here? That "not cool" isn't the same thing as "wrong" or "bad" and that "not dignified" is not saying it's "bad" or that "not healthy" is not implying it's wrong or bad? Back at ya. Sheesh.

 

J.

 

Oh, Julie, and everyone else, I am just sorry I ever posted to this thread in the first place. I am the farthest thing from a troublemaker and never want to start anything, nor am I the least bit interested in arguing with anyone about anything. If I offended anyone, I apologize. If I was "over the top" I apoligize. If I was out of line even to comment, I apologize. I thought my comment was mild; that was my intention. I was only stating an opinion. And I am sorry anyone took it to mean I thought the video was so dreadful or that I was all "up in arms " about it. Honestly, I have my opinion, you have yours, and I don't have any interest in changing your opinion. I only wanted to join the discussion. I certainly did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I should have let Kristine (Root Beer) do all the commenting -- she said it all much better than I did, anyway.

D'Elle

[Root Beer]

Jester and I are fortunate enough to dance with the Tucson Musican Canine Freestyle Club. We do demos of Freestyle all over town at various venues, and have also several times gone out of town for special events. Our purpose is to introduce people to Freestyle as a sport and as a fun activity that you can do with your dog. We emphasize positive reinforcement training, and our goal in doing public demos is to encourage people to do more things with their dogs, thereby strengthening the bond between them, and hopefully improving life for some dogs by giving them and their people encouragement to do things together.

 

Awesome!! I wish we had something like that around here!

 

I'm an independent Freestyler at the moment. I'd love to belong to a club, but it would have to be the right kind of club. So far there isn't one in my area that I would want to be a part of. Maybe someday.

 

The cool thing is that I've gotten to study under some really amazing people with very distinct approaches.

 

FWIW, I'm glad you jumped into the discussion. I think you introduced some interesting dynamics to the discussion.