Need a lot of training in a short time

[rushdoggie]

Donald McCaig, on 14 October 2010 - 05:17 AM, said:

The Purely Positive trainer's vices are sentimentality and adherence to a discredited scientistic learning theory that can’t understand dogs as canine pack animals.

 

 

Did you read any of Lou Castle's articles? His whole approach is based on that exact same scientistic learning theory. He is using a different quadrant as the basis of his work, but it is still the exact same theory. Granted, he is using R- and P+ instead of R+ and P-, but it's the opposite side of the same coin.

 

 

This. But Mr. McCaig and I have had this discussion in other threads. Operant conditioning is far from a "discredited" science, and every time you use pressure and release to train your sheepdog to down in a ring you are using it.

[Donald McCaig]

[Dear Doggers,

Ms Ooky is

 

" confused with the conjunction of these two statements. Why would you go to a top e-collar trainer with a rescue dog, no matter how fast it would be, if you've seen an approximate 40% "weirding" rate among pet dogs trained with these devices? And a seeming reliance on the tool (since they only remove the ecollar for demonstrations?) I may be missing something here."

 

 

Not missing anything, but inflating my words: I said two of these older dogs seemed "odd" to me. If I'd spent more than a few hours with these dogs, perhaps I could be more precise. A "seeming reliance on the tool" may be endemic to every training method. As Pat Miller told me, "I always have treats in my pocket."While every pet dog trainer I visited - whatever his/her method - claimed to be training for "Off-lead reliability" the dogs I saw were rarely off lead/off collar and most trainers were uncomfortable with my June, who rarely wears a leash.

 

Donald McCaig

[HoosierMike]

Since humans are naturally lazy creatures training tools which allow for the least physical exertion, fastest time to desired dog behavior, and least interaction with the dog are the ones more likely to be abused.

On a slightly different note, but same thought pattern, this is the arguement that I

get into with my neighbors who have an "invisible fence". Least amount of time

spent with their dogs and easiest "fix". I know that they've adjusted power range

and had to change the power level of collar device on their dog. I see the behavior

hasn't changed and has probably gotten worse over the years. Barking, lunging at

anyone passing by, but at least they don't have that unsightly chain link....

Mike

[Root Beer]

Look to the dog. Look to the dog.

 

With that I most heartily concur.

[Eileen Stein]

While I don't have any problem with this thread continuing, I'm gonna ask that people not put up any further posts specifically directed at or attacking Lou Castle. That seems to me to be unfair when he's not here anymore to defend himself.

[Lewis Moon]

While I don't have any problem with this thread continuing, I'm gonna ask that people not put up any further posts specifically directed at or attacking Lou Castle. That seems to me to be unfair when he's not here anymore to defend himself.

 

 

As the OP, all I have to say is....104 posts? Whodathunkit?

 

Really, Hesti is now Roxy, living in a nice home with an excptionally sweet and dedicated family. She's still wild and willful but her new mom is taking the time I couldn't give her in the short span we had her. I've learned a lot training a foster. I've learned that training a dog that is essentially an feral teenager is a tough row to hoe, but not impossible. I've learned to trust (with verification) what I think is working...after all, I'm the one that is observing the behavior and training to address them. I learned that comparing our fosters to Cerb is wrong on so many levels; I can only hope to approximate' in the training of a foster, the love, dedication and time I invested and continue to invest in Cerb's training. Cerb's a prodigy with all the good traits of his linage and decidedly few of the horror stories I've heard (we have a saying: "It must be the Lab in him"). I've learned that I'm the jealous one (not Cerb) and I tend to be bummed about not spending enough time with him. I've learned that the paramount ingrediants in training are time and dedication. Shortcuts are like using a chainsaw to build furniture; fast but imprecise...and you might just take a leg off.

I've also learned that if I thought trying to make sense of political arguments was tough on the web, arguments about training the furry members of your family are mine fields.

 

With that, I will officially ask that any other posts on the expanded subject that this has become be moved to a new thread. Who want's to be the OP?

[Root Beer]

I've learned that the paramount ingrediants in training are time and dedication. Shortcuts are like using a chainsaw to build furniture; fast but imprecise...and you might just take a leg off.

 

Sounds like your foster did a fantastic job teaching you. :) Even in such a short time.

[urge to herd]

Ya done good, Lewis! Whodathunkit, indeed. What you took away from your experience is great stuff - you should be proud of yourself and your family.

 

Ruth