Shoofly Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Hey all - I was hoping to get some opinions on breeding a bitch for the first time at an older age. I've heard from several people that a bitch should be 4 years old or less the first time you breed her, that breeding a first time at an older age can be more risky to the bitch. Is this an old wive's tale, or fact? What's the reasoning? I'm also curious about the thought that a bitch might settle down after having a litter. Anyone have experience with this? I have a 4.5 year old bitch that's not been bred before, who is coming into heat (only has been in 3 times before - at 21, 36 and 54 months old) and wondering if i should go ahead and breed her now. I'd rather not as i just bred another bitch, my first litter (didn't know the second bitch would come in). If i wait, she'll be almost 6 years old at her first litter though, assuming she sort of sticks to her past schedule (maybe, maybe not). For those who know us, yes it's Gael the wild child. Ready for that puppy A.? Thanks in advance for any thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Hi Robin, Molly was close to six when she had Mick, her first litter. I personally think some of the "rules" that go for breeding dogs in general don't apply to border collies. They're generally healthier and in better physical condition than many other breeds. Because people often want to see how they mature out in their work before they're bred, they probably tend to get bred later for the first time and the last time than other breeds and seem to do fine with this. JMHO Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by Shoofly:Ready for that puppy A.? Yup. A male please. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 I'll let you know if i decide to do it. I'll make up my mind after Spottie's ultrasound thursday. Thanks for the input Denise. I'd sure like to hold off until next time around if i can! A. - have you heard if Terry survived the bridge yesterday yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Hope you do it. So what if you have puppies for several weeks straight and no dog to run? I'm afraid to email Terry just yet. Was she shaking in her boots? I did notice that the bridge going back to the mainland had guard rails that weren't solid. Yikes, could be the last straw for T. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 We'll see about the breeding. If Spottie's not bred or only carrying a couple, I might breed Gael. I sure hate to take her out of training right now though. And it would mean no Bluegrass. I thought about Terry when i came over the bridge too. It's a ton worse coming west, all torn up and the non-solid gaurdrails, plus that wind yesterday yikes. She said it wasn't so scary going in thursday night in the dark, so maybe she waited until after dark to leave yesterday. Oh trial news - the Buff had quite the day yesterday. First or second in every run, 2 PN and 2 Nursery. Go Buffy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Woo hoo! Damn, and I just spoke to Scott. Could've given him the lowdown on the Puffball. You know, they NEED input, like that little character Short Circuit. Remember that movie from a few years ago? A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Scary but yes, I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Just thought i'd update - looks like Gael wanted to make the decision herself since she's now not in heat. I swear, she was for a day or so but stopped. Sorry A., next time. But, just got back from the ultrasound on Spottie and that is the coolest thing EVER! Saw 4 little wiggly pups and possibly a 5th. I just keep looking at the pictures, it's so amazing. So there, Spottie has her excuse for sure for why she was so terrible last weekend. I'm so glad there aren't 8 pups (like Sam's), though i think i wouldn't have any trouble selling them all. Even the vet this morning decided he wants one. He'll have to get in line though, i have great working spots for the 4 or 5 already. Woo hoo, i'm so excited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Saw 4 little wiggly pups and possibly a 5th... I'm so glad there aren't 8 pups Hate to tell you but this is exactly what they saw with Joy's litter when USed at the same time as Spottie. As you know, she ended up having eight. Be forewarned. Congrats on your pre-pups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Ah well, at least we'll have the 4 spoken for covered. More would be okay, more to choose from! Hey, did you xray right before delivery with yours so you'd know what to expect? I'm planning to do it a few days before Spottie delivers but now i'm wondering if it's overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 No, I try to avoid x-rays if possible. My understanding is it's pretty difficult to tell how many pups by x-ray right at the end. I've seen x-rays on what turned out to be a litter of eight pups and I can understand why it would be hard to count them exactly. I have had the bitch x-rayed after though, just to be sure they were all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hmm, okay i'll have to think on this more. I was thinking it would be nice to have the extra info but the vet this morning thought it was overkill too. What, me a nervous first-timer? Moi? :eek: I bet Spottie gets massive. I saw her before her first litter with only 2 pups and she was huge. I think she'll start her jogging program today.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Renee had Starr xrayed before delivery and the count from the xray was short by 2. Congrats! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 How many did she have Mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 She had 7 in her. She delivered the first one still born after a long labor & 2 alive (Gyp & Rae). This took 8 hrs and we were told by the emergency vet during this "to let nature take its course". After 8 hrs we decided we weren't calling anymore; we were going in. Once there the new shift at the e-vet gave her oxytocin and waited for another hr or so before an emergency c-section during which her uterus broke. The remaining pups did not survive. The first vet didn't appear interested in our problem and afterwards we question if Starr should even have been given oxytocin after 8 hrs of labor. Later we heard that others received questionable advice from this e-vet clinic and they went elsewhere. Based upon what we've heard this is not a usual set of circumstances. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Oh wow Mark, that's terrible. I didn't realize Gyp and Rae were the only ones you'd gotten out of the litter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 We'll always wonder how the others would have turned out, personality and talent wise. Fortunately Gyp and Rae's personalities suit Renee and I perfectly. It's too bad Gyp doesn't have the talent that Rae does. Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 It's sad the others didn't make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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