Jump to content
BC Boards

New! And questions about other people disciplining dogs


Recommended Posts

Hi folks! I'm new here, though I've been lurking a while. I have an 11 week old BC pup, Tug.

 

I've run into some problems with other people (all friends/family, at this point) attempting to discipline Tug, which isn't a problem in and of itself - except that they are doing it completely WRONG! A friend of mine has a Pomeranian female that she likes to bring to 'play' with Tug, except the Pom's idea of playing is to try to get him to chase her. I'd rather not encourage him to CHASE any other animals, especially not small furry ones, and his recall is nowhere near solid enough to be able to call him off her reliably. Further, this particular friend felt it appropriate to 'discipline' Tug for play-biting at her tail by pushing him over onto his back and yelling at him.

 

This is not how I teach, and I tried to make that clear to her. Most of my family is willing to follow the methods I use and has made an effort to remember the words he knows and use them appropriately. He's a little bit of an introvert, so I've been trying to work on his confidence and trying to 'roll' him and yell is most definitely NOT going to help that.

 

How do y'all deal with people that try to discipline your animals inappropriately? This friend is also my 'landlord' (two houses, one property, they own/I rent) and frequently has the Pom outside off leash. The Pom is only about a year old, and teases/torments Tug whenever she sees him outside. Because of the business side of the relationship, I have to be careful about how I approach the topic in the future. I suppose I'll have to keep him on leash whenever we are outside until his recall/leave it are more solid, - I don't see her teaching the Pom that this 'game' is not appropriate. It has typical lap-dog non-manners.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Hmmm....is it me or am I seeing two issues here?

 

One, if I don't want others disciplining my animals, I don't give them a reason. Which with a pup can be tough as it is a learning phase and in the process of socializing others may have grievances against the pup. Although, I for sure would expect my friends and family to do as I ask. But the other side to that is that they have to know AND understand what I am working on for that approach to work.

 

Two, I don't see a problem with a 11 week old pup having some fun and chasing and playing with another dog where it is safe. I would be tempted to say that there is not much of a relation between play chasing and "teaching" a young pup to chase small furry things. Plus, you could use the play to teach it, all in fun and with other games the recall as you go along.

 

Just my two cents.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My first thought was the same as G's. I don't see anything wrong with an 11 week old puppy playing chase with the other little dog. Chasing, wrestling, play biting, that's all normal and a good part of puppies learning how to be a dog with other dogs. Personally, I'd be glad if my puppy had a size appropriate, friendly dog to interact and socialize with.

 

As for other people's discipline, I'd just talk to your landlord and nicely say "this is what I do when Tug does something I don't want him to, and I think he'll better understand if you do it the same way." Add that he's still a puppy and has a long way to go, but it'll be easier for him to learn if the manner in which he is disciplined is consistent.

 

Good luck!

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for other people's discipline, I'd just talk to your landlord and nicely say "this is what I do when Tug does something I don't want him to, and I think he'll better understand if you do it the same way." Add that he's still a puppy and has a long way to go, but it'll be easier for him to learn if the manner in which he is disciplined is consistent.

 

Good luck!

 

Just wanted to add that sometimes other dog owners will take such a request as a criticism of their own training methods, which can make them defensive and less willing to listen. Because the OP is concerned about maintaining a good relationship with the landlord, I would suggest adding something like "Gee, Tug is a really sensitive puppy (he's one of those crazy border collies, you know) and he's not as mentally tough as your Pom, so I have to be really careful about being too hard on him." Then use PSmitty's suggestion about consistency and how you teach him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
How do y'all deal with people that try to discipline your animals inappropriately? This friend is also my 'landlord' (two houses, one property, they own/I rent) and frequently has the Pom outside off leash. The Pom is only about a year old, and teases/torments Tug whenever she sees him outside. Because of the business side of the relationship, I have to be careful about how I approach the topic in the future.

 

I am glad that I found your posting. I have the same problem with my BC pup that is about 6 months old. In my situation though, it is not a friend, but the in- laws... My mother in law in particular. She is all into The Dog Whisperer way of teaching a dog, ie submission submission submission... I do not agree with the way he teaches dogs and I don't want to teach my dog that way. I do more the Victoria Stillwell, positive training ways... I have tried to explain to her how I train my dogs, I have showed how I train my dogs, yet it seems to go in one ear and out the other... :rolleyes: She also lets my dogs get away with a lot more then I do because she thinks its cute and just how the dogs act... (I leave instruction lists for EVERYTHING including training when I am forced to leave the dogs with her) I am worried right now because my husband just received a new job offer, and gets temporary housing from his new company for a month so we can look for a place to stay. So in the mean time I am forced to leave my dogs with the in laws 8 hours away... And trust me I am looking for a house like crazy!!! Any suggestions to make sure my dogs dont pick up bad habits while Im away?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bullet,

Is there any place *else* you leave them?

 

J.

 

Unfortunately I don't have any other place to leave them as we look for a house. We don't have enough to board 3 dogs, and I know that my two older dogs do not do well in a kennel. I am able to return there for the next week, and hopefully by the time I am ready to return with another load of our stuff, we will have the place we just applied for and I will be bringing them home with me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My reactive dog is on-leash at the park, and other people have their too friendly dogs off-leash. Their dogs come charging at me, and they're too far to help. I most decidedly "discipline" their dogs by saying, "NO! STAY! GIT!"

 

I'm pretty sure I've made some of those owners embarrassed, but so be it. I've also protected their dog and me from a potential fight.

 

Outside of that sort of situation, I don't discipline others' dogs, though I often would like to. And no one else disciplines my dog, because I keep him under my control. Not sure what I'd do if someone tried to roll Buddy over. Yikes!

 

Mary

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh. man can I empathize with this thread! I have a fear reactive 1 yr old. I also have and extremely strained relationship with my sister-in-law and try very hard to keep things pleasant with her. We had her and her new husband over for dinner one night, and he KICKED my baby girl when she gave a classic BC nip at his ankles when he ran past her. I was horrified! Needless to say, I keep her crated (for her own safety) whenever he's around.

Link to post
Share on other sites
We had her and her new husband over for dinner one night, and he KICKED my baby girl when she gave a classic BC nip at his ankles when he ran past her. I was horrified! Needless to say, I keep her crated (for her own safety) whenever he's around.

 

Sounds like a good plan between your dog being reactive and his reaction. That way you can work on the nipping in a way you are more comfortable with. My Lhasa has his own version of a "BC nip" and if I can't closely supervise him around strangers, he is crated. 19 out of 20 times he's lovely with people he doesn't know. I treat every interaction like it's the 20th time. No matter what he means with his nip, it's absolutely unacceptable and could land us in all sorts of trouble. I'd hate to see anyone kick him but if they did, I'd hope he at least learned something from the experience!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Any suggestions to make sure my dogs dont pick up bad habits while Im away?

 

Is there anyway you can take just the 11 month old with you, and leave your older, more established dogs with the MIL? You can't get your MIL to change, that's not a realistic option. Taking one dog with you might be doable.

 

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

Ruth

Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh. man can I empathize with this thread! I have a fear reactive 1 yr old. I also have and extremely strained relationship with my sister-in-law and try very hard to keep things pleasant with her. We had her and her new husband over for dinner one night, and he KICKED my baby girl when she gave a classic BC nip at his ankles when he ran past her. I was horrified! Needless to say, I keep her crated (for her own safety) whenever he's around.

 

What's wrong with people?!

 

I have an ankle nipper too. I've learned to let people know ahead of time that she nips and to expect it. "this is how you handle it...." follows so she doesn't also get kicked. I worry about that. Some people just don't understand appropraite correction with dogs. Kicking is not one of them. Unless, of course, it's a full on attack with intent to harm kinda thing, but that's another topic.

 

I had a friend over recently because he wanted to see the pups. He was only here for a few minutes to say hi. Grady is a little wild child and to the untrained person looks like he has no clue what's going on. He is extremely responsive to commands and listens 100% of the time. He's just a ball of perpetual motion. As the guy was leaving, I said "Grady Come". He came tearing back towards the door to come inside but the guy was standing there holding it open for him. He was unsure about this and came to a sliding stop just shy of coming in because he didn't want to run past him. The guy yells "HERE!" and grabs poor Grady by the collar and scruff and the same time and pulls him into the house. He was so quick about it, it startled both Grady and me. I was polite about telling him that grabbing a strange dog's collar was not a good idea and that if he had just left him alone he would have come in on his own. Not a guy I want handling my dogs, that's for sure :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi folks! I'm new here, though I've been lurking a while. I have an 11 week old BC pup, Tug.

 

I've run into some problems with other people (all friends/family, at this point) attempting to discipline Tug, which isn't a problem in and of itself - except that they are doing it completely WRONG! A friend of mine has a Pomeranian female that she likes to bring to 'play' with Tug, except the Pom's idea of playing is to try to get him to chase her. I'd rather not encourage him to CHASE any other animals, especially not small furry ones, and his recall is nowhere near solid enough to be able to call him off her reliably. Further, this particular friend felt it appropriate to 'discipline' Tug for play-biting at her tail by pushing him over onto his back and yelling at him.

 

This is not how I teach, and I tried to make that clear to her. Most of my family is willing to follow the methods I use and has made an effort to remember the words he knows and use them appropriately. He's a little bit of an introvert, so I've been trying to work on his confidence and trying to 'roll' him and yell is most definitely NOT going to help that.

 

How do y'all deal with people that try to discipline your animals inappropriately? This friend is also my 'landlord' (two houses, one property, they own/I rent) and frequently has the Pom outside off leash. The Pom is only about a year old, and teases/torments Tug whenever she sees him outside. Because of the business side of the relationship, I have to be careful about how I approach the topic in the future. I suppose I'll have to keep him on leash whenever we are outside until his recall/leave it are more solid, - I don't see her teaching the Pom that this 'game' is not appropriate. It has typical lap-dog non-manners.

 

My dogs will basically listen to other people, and for the most part, other people are usually less harsh on the dogs than me, if they're not doing what their supposed to. As in, "No, really I'm fine with him jumping on me." Well, they might be fine, but I have zero tolerance on that.

 

Once, my stepdad got pissed at Mick for getting in his way, and he kicked him. Now he would NEVER do that to his dogs, but he did that to Mick. I told my mother, and she went off on him.

 

Another time, a karate friend of mine decided he was going to make Sinead lie down. He's totally NOT a dog person. He got rough and yelled at her, tried to push her down. She adamantly refused to obey. He ended up looking like an ass when I very quietly said (from about 20' away), "girl, lie down" and she did immediately. She had never met him, and obviously did not think he was worth listening to. Honestly, he is quite an ass all around. Had he tried it on Mick, it would have been a different story. Mick probably would have bit him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. In2Adventure writes,

 

"I have an ankle nipper too. I've learned to let people know ahead of time that she nips and to expect it. "this is how you handle it...." follows so she doesn't also get kicked. I worry about that. Some people just don't understand appropraite correction with dogs. Kicking is not one of them.

"

I quite agree. (a) Dogs are hard to kick, (B) Habitual ankle nippers may expect a retaliatory kick, duck and even enjoy it. Some cattledogs seem to enjoy the cow's kick attempts.

 

If one is seated (at a family gathering, for instance) it is much easier to cuff Nipper. Some handlers grasp Nipper's snout and hold it closed whilst admonishing him but the quick cuff, just like Mama did - is surer.

 

If one is standing or walking with Nipper and his hapless owner; Nipper will always, always, always signal his intentions. Your warning growl usually forestalls his initial attack. If Hapless has been letting Nipper get away with it, Nipper will try again. Remember: Nipper has been trained to nip. Given this unpleasant behavior, probably no human being has ever SEEN Nipper previously and when you SEE him and growl, he may withdraw, bark in a bullshit-threatening manner before turning away and pretending nothing has happened. In the unlikely event Nipper persists, confronting him with a firm lecture may work: provided you MEAN WHAT YOU SAY. This will be difficult because Hapless will be nattering in your ear. Ignore Hapless. If Nipper persists, your Drill Sergeant bellow and threatening move will startle both, deter Nipper (and likely provoke either a submissive down or paroxysms of confused barking) and forestall all future walk invitations.

 

It never a good idea to let any dog's teeth contact human flesh. If you own Nipper and don't want him corrected don't bring him around me. I am uninterested in Nipper's abused history, his charms, your theories and circumlocutions. Your dog has bad manners and my ankles do not belong to him.

 

Donald McCaig

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, the bad manners of a dog who nips ankles are far exceeded by the bad manners of someone who feels entitled to discipline and train another person's dog against their express wishes. It may be that the dog's owner is not the contemptible person of no account that you deem him/her to be, and that you are not as superior to him/her in training ability as you deem yourself to be. In any case, the dog belongs to him/her, and therefore s/he is the one entitled to determine how the dog is to be disciplined except in cases of imminent bodily injury. If someone (like in2adventure) tells me ahead of time that her dog might nip ankles and how she wants me to handle it if he does, I would consider it more appropriate to remove myself from the situation if I didn't want to risk a nip than to disregard her wishes and take it on myself to discipline her dog in a way that violates them.

 

As for the OP's question, I liked PSmitty's answer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

My friend Eileen objects:

 

"IMO, the bad manners of a dog who nips ankles are far exceeded by the bad manners of someone who feels entitled to discipline and train another person's dog against their express wishes. . . . In any case, the dog belongs to him/her, and therefore s/he is the one entitled to determine how he is to be disciplined except in cases of imminent bodily injury."

 

I wrote about a dog that's going for my ankles. Mine. That counts as imminent bodily injury and outweighs the hapless owner's wishes or instructions. As Eileen knows, that foolishness (Nip) happens very fast and agreeing to some doubtless interesting training theory and trying to apply same, first time, while a dog is going in for the Nip, is hopeless. I was not and am not training another's dog - merely convincing Nipper that biting Donald's ankles is a bad idea. There is no way in hell with a convinced Nipper that one correction by someone he'll probably never see again would train said Nipper. Indeed, Nipper might promptly turn to others, or even Hapless to assert Nipper's rights to Nip as he has been allowed/trained to do..

 

Nipper leaves my ankles alone, owner can spin whatever training tales he or she wishes to. "Pretty sunset," I'm likely to reply.

 

Nipper has no right to Nip my ankles and the owner has no right, having trained this ankle biter, to complain when I inform Nipper that, while others may, I am not playing by his rules.

 

Donald McCaig

Link to post
Share on other sites

I generally manage my dogs to prevent them from rehearsing behaviors I don't want - if I know someone is coming over who may not like a behavior I am fine with, the dogs are put up or leashed to prevent the visitor from even thinking about needing to "teach" my dogs anything.

 

That being said, all of my dogs are desensitized to typical CM pssts and finger pokes early on in their time with me so I don't have to worry about their reactions if someone tries one of those stupid moves. Z and Kes both think finger pokes and tsst noises are methods of inciting play now, so anyone who tries doing it as discipline will be met with pawing and bouncing rather than the "calm submissive" state they were going for. It gives me great pleasure to see the person's reactions to my dogs' play behavior and plenty of time to remove the dogs from their reach.

 

Similarly, both of my dogs (and Maggie before she left us) were handled frequently and even a bit roughly on purpose to minimize any risk of lasting effects from someone "correcting" them inappropriately. Z has allowed the vet to place staples, run hip xrays, etc. sans sedative, Maggie never raised a protest about being carried, xrayed, or otherwise handled even when feeling poorly, and Kes accepts all manipulation and restraint during regular vet exams (we're working on more invasive handling currently as he is a very bouncy guy). All three were used to my husband playing with their noses and ears as part of a game he invented.

 

All the above work means that my dogs will bounce back quickly from rough handling and thus give me time to intervene because I know that I won't be able to prevent all inappropriate handling. People thinking they can discipline my dogs for behavior I consider appropriate will either be instructed on how to handle things appropriately in the future or will not be allowed to interact further with my dog(s).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Donlad, I respectfully disagree. Just as I feel it would be inappropriate to dicipline another person's child, I feel it would be inappropriate to dicipline their dog. I have been working with a trainer who specializes in BC's and have been using the book "The Cautious Canine" and have made great strides with my dog in helping her to overcome her fear of people. She no longer nips people, and now thinks that all people carry dog cookies in their pocket just for her. We have spent many long hours socializing with all types of people, (mostly strangers I meet on the street) and building a positive association with people. I do think that it is important to identify the cause of the nipping and not apply a one solution response to their bad behavior. My dog was not nipping out of a BC herding instinct but instead out of fear. By reacting with a "cuff" or a kick, her fear is only reinforced. We had about 50 people over last night for a party, I let Asa stay out of her crate and she behaved like a princess. She went up to everyone looking for affection and we had no problems. (And my brother-in-law was there and was astounded at the difference in her behavior!) I think it is important to remember that all dogs are different and therefore a one-size-fits-all correction is not the best choice. I also think that the characterization that the owner is clueless can often be incorrect. Unless you know for a fact that they are simply ignoring or are oblivious to their dogs bad behaviour you shouldn't assume that they are not working on correcting them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Donald, ya big baby! :rolleyes: If you characterize ankle-nipping as bodily injury, then the ankle-nipping you've encountered must be quite different from the ankle-nipping I've encountered.

 

I suppose here, as in so many cases, there are two kinds of people. One kind, if asked by a dog owner not to discipline his/her dog, would respect the owner's wishes and arrange matters so they did not contravene them. The other kind would contravene the owner's wishes, perhaps expressing contempt for the owner's competence and "theories" by word ("Nice sunset") as well as action while doing so. I would rank the manners of the former (and the dog) above the manners of the latter. This is something on which we evidently disagree.

 

ETA: I should probably add that I didn't assume that the owner was clueless, hapless, or complacent about his/her dog's misbehavior because that wasn't part of the scenarios that Heinz 57, Bullet87, Kelleybean, and in2adventure presented.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I fall somewhere between Eileen and Donald on this one. I agree with P Smitty's way of heading off inappropriate corrections from others re:my dog. I usually make it my job to teach my dog to refrain from annoying others, or prevent her from annoying people. Sometimes I do this by removing my dog from said person's proximity, sometimes I leash, and sometimes it just takes a "Lie down!." But I'm fully cognizant that not everyone is happy to put up with the shenanigans I'm willing to put up with from my own dog.

 

On the other hand, I feel it is my right to correct a dog from making any unwanted physical contact with me in whatever way seems appropriate to me at the time. I am fully capable of recognizing the head-down dash for the ankle that a puppy (or dog) will sometimes make, in fun, at my ankle. A growly "Hey!" will usually forestall the imminent ankle-nipping. At that point it's my job to tell the owner of said dog to do whatever he/she does to make said ankle-nipper, jumper-up, excessive licker, or otherwise ill-mannered dog cease and desist. If my personal space continues to be violated, and it is inconvenient or inappropriate for me to remove myself from the proximity of said dog I will correct as I see fit. (Yes, I'd do the same with a kid.)

 

All ankle-nipping is not created equal, and I take a medicine which makes me bleed easily, and not stop easily. I won't allow a critter to grab me if I can help it. If the owner won't prevent it, I will.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty much with geonni here.

 

If you have a dog that thinks it is okay to put teeth on other people, regardless of what you tolerate, it is your job to keep that dog from putting teeth on me. It is rude to allow your dog to nip or bite me. I should not have to be warned that your dog will nip me and that I should be okay with that. People need to be aware that if your dog bites or nips and breaks skin then the person bitten has the right to ask for proof of rabies vaccination and/or quarantine. Even if it's just a tiny break in the skin. And in today's society I can see a lot of over protective parents having a hissy fit because their kid got bit and insisting on this quarantine. Since I don't want my dogs to have to go through that I protect them.

 

If I feel that my dogs are going to be inappropriate in a situation then I put them away. For instance, I had a reef (saltwater aquarium) club meeting here at the house last night. These people are aquarium people, not dog people though some do have and love dogs. Since I didn't want my young dogs to pester people doing what I'm okay with, requesting fetch with toys and such, I put them away and allowed the older, more user friendly dogs to remain out. That is my job as their owner. It also keeps people from feeling like they can or should give my dogs orders or corrections.

 

If I do see someone asking my dogs to do something but asking wrongly, I step in and show them how to do it or I just ask them to please not give commands to the dogs. If they persist I remove the dogs from the situation.

 

I feel the same about kids, it's their parents job to keep that kid from annoying the crap out of me but if they don't or the kid insists on making unwanted contact or such to me I'll tell the kid to go away and tell the parents to control the kid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

Some of this discussion addresses a not uncommon problem: a high status individual thinks he/she knows more about dog training than the owner does - which he/she may or may not. That HS may have a different theory of dog training than another is a swamp I'd just as soon not enter.

 

Skilled dog trainers do not, as a rule, train someone else's dog. I have nothing to do with your dog, have no relationship with him and no stake: if he's a whackjob I may feel sorry for him but won't intervene. If that dog is misbehaving in a way that threatens other dogs or humans most skilled dog trainers will intervene. If my pup is picking a fight at a sheepdog trial and I'm nowhere near, I'd certainly hope the nearest handler would prevent the fight. If my dog jumps up on someone, I expect my dog to get the knee. If my dog tries to nip, smack him.

 

Those aren't problems I meet at trials or clinics where dogs are mannerly or managed.If another handler walking his/her pack sings out: "she's in heat", it is my responsibility to recall my males promptly. Ditto if someone advises me one of their dogs is grumpy.. I do run into unmannerly and sometimes dangerous dogs in Dog Parks and, while the owners may or may not have a training theory, my responsibility is fairly simple. I will protect my dogs. I will not let them provoke other dogs. I will not let other dogs pester me.

 

Most of my experience is with mannerly dogs and people I'd trust my dogs to (and have). When my dogs are amongst civilians I am very wary.

 

I thought about this recently when reading "let's Take the long way Home". The author's dog, a samoyed, was attacked (as was the author) by two pit bulls. Useless owner. No nearby help - far from the car.

 

I wondered what I would do? A perfectly timed through the goalposts kick might stop one dog - and perhaps deter the other. Marines were trained how to disable/kill an attacking guard dog but the defense required strength and agility I no longer possess. Charging the dog with a great bellow might work but might encourage my dogs to mix it up. I don't carry a gun. If I had a cane or crook, I could stop one of them . . .but . . .

 

Dunno. What would you do?

 

Donald McCaig

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we have another apples and oranges situation here now. A German Shepherd Dog that is hell-bent on disemboweling me or my dog is an entirely different kettle of fish from the Golden Retriever at the dog park that wants to accessorize my outfit with muddy paw prints.

 

I was once set upon by a large intact male Pit Bull in my own front yard. I was hand watering my lawn when he came stalking me, head down, hackles up, tail like a ramrod, showing every tooth in his head. My hose had a solid brass nozzle on it that weighed about a pound. When I looked up the dog was already too close to make running for the front door feasible. So I shook out about three feet of hose, swung it in a circle a couple of times to build momentum, and brained him between the eyes with it. Alas, it had no appreciable effect. So I took to my heels. I made it through the door. (One can run very fast when being chased by an angry Pit Bull, I found.) I heard/ felt him crash into the door as I slammed it shut. He barked and clawed at it for a few minutes and then went off to find someone else to eat. I called Animal Control.

 

Needless (I hope) to say, I would not use the brass nozzle defense on the slimy tennis-ball-bearing retriever, but he would get my knee in his chest and if his owner was not readily apparent he'd get sent on his way with a venomous "Git!"

 

The world is full of a number of people who either like or don't like dogs. Why any of them should be subject to the fallout of any dog's bad manners is beyond me. I'm a doting dog owner and even I don't like it. It makes no difference to the average person if your dog was poorly socialized or beaten from infancy or is just feckless - they don't want to be snapped at, drooled on or assaulted with ear shattering salvos of barking - and who can blame them! I don't. So I keep my dog out of snapping range when she's uncomfortable with someone - even though she's never snapped at anyone. There's always a first time. And I restrain her from all of the other wet, noisy and balance endangering behaviors that annoy the average person.

 

As for the harum-scarum pup that finds my ankles inviting. A sharp word from me should dissuade him. But from that moment it's the owner's responsibility to step in and teach in whatever way seems good to them. A second go at my ankles will be met with stiffer resistance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Kelly,

I had a rescue dog that came to us with a problem nipping at people. I worked with him, like you did, but I kept him controlled in situations where he'd be tempted to nip at people and slowly built his trust in the situation. After a time, he grew out of his bad behavior, but I never would have trusted him with a group that large, retraining not withstanding - though I'm assuming you were supervising Asa. It's just not fair to stress the dog. There's also a danger in the dog beginning to think that everyone has a cookie for her...she'll get to the point where she insists on the cookie and that will be a different problem.

 

As you know, training a dog out of a bad habit is a lifetime's work and I agree with all of your methods. If I had been a victim, my approach would have been OUCH!!!!! -- the puppy reaction to being nipped at too hard and let you handle the rest. Also, as you might know, the problem many people have is that they just don't stand still...they keep twisting around to avoid the dog, and the BC is so much faster and the person twisting just aggravates and excites them into nipping again so having a dog that nips in a crowd of people milling about increases the possibility of raising her excitement level to the point where she'll forget her training and backslide. Our Scotty is no longer with us,(ETA - he crossed the Rainbow Bridge) and our dogs are well behaved but we can't depend on all of our guests to act responsibly around our dogs - for one thing, they won't stop throwing the ball for Ladybug and she won't quit asking - so the the gang comes out for show and tell, under our control, then goes back to bed. Keeps everyone safe and happy.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

Donlad, I respectfully disagree. Just as I feel it would be inappropriate to dicipline another person's child, I feel it would be inappropriate to dicipline their dog. I have been working with a trainer who specializes in BC's and have been using the book "The Cautious Canine" and have made great strides with my dog in helping her to overcome her fear of people. She no longer nips people, and now thinks that all people carry dog cookies in their pocket just for her. We have spent many long hours socializing with all types of people, (mostly strangers I meet on the street) and building a positive association with people. I do think that it is important to identify the cause of the nipping and not apply a one solution response to their bad behavior. My dog was not nipping out of a BC herding instinct but instead out of fear. By reacting with a "cuff" or a kick, her fear is only reinforced. We had about 50 people over last night for a party, I let Asa stay out of her crate and she behaved like a princess. She went up to everyone looking for affection and we had no problems. (And my brother-in-law was there and was astounded at the difference in her behavior!) I think it is important to remember that all dogs are different and therefore a one-size-fits-all correction is not the best choice. I also think that the characterization that the owner is clueless can often be incorrect. Unless you know for a fact that they are simply ignoring or are oblivious to their dogs bad behaviour you shouldn't assume that they are not working on correcting them.
Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have a dog that thinks it is okay to put teeth on other people, regardless of what you tolerate, it is your job to keep that dog from putting teeth on me. It is rude to allow your dog to nip or bite me. I should not have to be warned that your dog will nip me and that I should be okay with that. People need to be aware that if your dog bites or nips and breaks skin then the person bitten has the right to ask for proof of rabies vaccination and/or quarantine. Even if it's just a tiny break in the skin. And in today's society I can see a lot of over protective parents having a hissy fit because their kid got bit and insisting on this quarantine. Since I don't want my dogs to have to go through that I protect them.

 

Exactly. I think you owe it to your dog and your guests, not to allow a situation where you know nipping is possible. Now if you have a Dog Person (note capitals) friend who shares your approach to training or at least is willing to work with your approach, that can be very helpful in addressing your dog's behaviors and issues. I think that's very different than entertaining guests who may not be dog savvy or even like dogs and expecting them to tolerate being nipped.

 

When Quinn was a puppy, he had a mercifully brief phase where he thought it was hysterical to nip my shins as he ran past me. It was just puppy nonsense and after a couple times of being nabbed and told off, he decided it wasn't so fun after all. But those baby nips left me with bruises and it hurt, darn the little coyote! I would have been really appalled if he had done that to a friend, visitor, delivery man, child, my mother, etc. If he had nipped somone and they kicked him, I wouldn't have been happy but if he was no worse for the wear (I assume we aren't talking vicious kicks), the one I'd be most upset with would be myself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...