Luis & Jill Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 I've heard the terms "tried on sheep" and "introduced to sheep" many times in the context of finding out if a BC has a strong herding instinct. Can you tell what is expected from this ? What would a dog with strong herding instinct do when he sees a sheep for the fist time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Here are two real stories of dogs that I am working with every day. Both are excellent sheepdogs. Our main task at this time of year is holding a group of 200 ewes back while we put out feed. Both of these dogs can do that. Both of these dogs can gather that same field and bring the sheep into the shed for handling, and can keep the race full. One is three years old and is trialing in Open when I can get away. The other is just two, and has not been trialed yet. One guy, at about 14 weeks, started to slip over, through, under, or around every fence on the farm to get at sheep, He would run at them until they started to break away from him, and then would bend out and try to get around in front of them as fast as his stubby little legs would carry him. If he couldn't get to their heads, he would grab onto the wool of the last sheep and go for a ride. The other guy was afraid of sheep (as in run away and hide in the truck) until he was 14 months old. Both have strong herding instinct. I say you can't tell a darned thing from the first time you introduce a dog to sheep, other than whether the puppy is excited or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 I've heard the terms "tried on sheep" and "introduced to sheep" many times in the context of finding out if a BC has a strong herding instinct. Can you tell what is expected from this Not a damn thing as far as I am concerned. "introduced to sheep" always conjures up for me a picture of a person politely introducing their Border Collie to a sheep and having them shake a paw/hoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis & Jill Posted January 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 That makes sense, but I?ve heard those phrases so often that I thought something is supposed to happen and nothing surprises me about these dogs anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMalazdrewich Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hey Luis/Jill, What part of North Van are you from? We were just up there at Christmas visiting family. For the first time, the weather wasn't much better than in Minnesota... Cheers, Christie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis & Jill Posted January 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Christie, We are from Central Lonsdale. You are right, I was really cold during the Holidays, but we are now back to our toasty +10C while the rest of Canada freezes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 I say you can't tell a darned thing from the first time you introduce a dog to sheep, other than whether the puppy is excited or not.I don't think I agree with this Bill. I would certainly disagree if you specified that you had given it two or three fair shots at it and--nothing. Yes, it could happen, but a dog that does not turn on until 14 months is pretty anomalous.Assuming the dog is, say, 8-10 months old, I think you can tell, at the very least, quite a lot about whether you have enough to go on with. I'll even go out on a limb and say a professional will have a very good idea indeed how the dog will turn out. As I say, there will always be exceptions, but it is the exceptions that prove the rule. Example: my friend has a Fly/Pleat that was absolutely astounding the first few times she was put on sheep. She demonstrated immaculate balance, had a walk up to die for and rated herself naturally. Yes, she was too close to the sheep and would fly in and grip and do plenty of other stupid puppy things, but those three attributes were there right from the start. I would bet any money she is going to be a cracker. As for Jaffe, same age, all bets are off. My friend tries very hard not to gloat. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Some people who've started many dogs say that you can sometimes tell a lot about how a dog will turn out by watching it closely the first few minutes after it's put on sheep. The reasoning behind this is that you're seeing what's in the dog before the keenness and excitement overwhelm the natural and make it fast and tight, grippy, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla1 Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 My previous border collie came with me to do chores and get sick cattle out of pens since she was a puppy but didn't even notice the cattle moving around until one day, at 5 1/2 months, she stared at them and never looked back. The change was amazing, like someone had turned a switch on. This puppy I have now I received at 10 weeks and the first day here, doing chores, she wanted to go work the horses with such intensity that they were scared to come up to the fence. Have not tried her yet and won't for a while, but it will be interesting to see how she will do then. No telling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 We take most of our rescues out on sheep to see what they're made of. Some of them, granted, show nothing until they've been out there a few times. But a few, like my Piper, and Chase, went out there and showed natural balance and a desire to get at the heads and some pretty amazing control, all things considered. We would definitely not make a call that the dog would be good in a working home based on those encounters, but we can and do tell people that for a hobby herding dog it's a good start. We had one dog out there that worked EXACTLY the way the dog we think is his sire works. It was downright eerie. It might as well have been him out there. Some dogs take a few tries, and some like my Tweed, never get over barking at the sheep and running away (loserdog). Some never get it at all. I don't think it tells you everything, but it can tell you some things. One of the rescues we tested on stock, who did really well, is now being trained up to compete and he is really good. Whereas one dog took a long time to really turn on, and he's turning out to be better than the owner's purchased herding dog. So it is a bit of a crapshoot. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue in France Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I go along with Bill on this one. There are some pups who will react beautifully the first time they see sheep. There are some who need to be with sheep quite often to "turn on"...it is called a declaration in France. And I have an 8 year old dog here who declared at the age of about 5 after watching me train the others. When I tried him on sheep had he had a nice pace and was careful of stock...tended to cut the top corners a bit as he cast out and had a loosish eye. However he enjoyed it immensely. I didn't continue with him as he had a firm background of being a pet and was not really well enough grounded in obeying commands. After five minutes he treated the whole exercise as a game. I do still think he could have made a useful farm dog if I had switched him on to stock earlier. A lot depends on the dog's early experiences. If he has never seen stock he won't always respond. A pup I bred was brought back here for some training and didn't do much...11 months old now. His owners have kept him away from stock. But after ten minutes with my bitch pushing the sheep around him, he began to show some form. Then went back to eating sheep poop. Clearly not old enough or had enough exposure to sheep. Never can tell. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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