Liz P Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Not Karen, but raw milk and meat have natural enzymes and more available digestable nutrition than cooked. And thats per my vet...so take it with a grain of salt. She hasn't been to school in a few years. Come to think of it, none of my vets have seen school in a long, long time. Old fogies, dog love'm I always prefer oatmeal because rice has the tendancy to make a lot of my dogs sick. And if it makes adults ill, then why would I feed it to a puppy? OK, makes sense. I was just asking. I do give my young pups raw meat and milk products, but I know my sources and I know there IS a risk of contamination with a variety of species of bacteria that can and do make dogs and people sick. I just think it is dangerous to recommend feeding raw meat without being very clear about only using carefully chosen sources and the potential risks. Julie, their digestive tracts really are not much different than ours. It's mostly a matter of what we are used to eating. I don't know about you, but if I suddenly eat a lot of food from a different culture it takes time for my system to adjust. That is because a good portion of our digestion is done by bacteria living in our guts. The exact balance of bacteria species depends on what we eat. That bacterial population needs time to change if we shift our diet. Plenty of cultures do consume rotting meats and cheeses. Plenty of people also consume raw meats, fish, milk, etc. Heck, I love a good piece of sashimi or steak tartar. Why don't I get sick more often? Because of the excellent food safety standards in this country AND because not all meat/milk comes from contaminated animals. I did get food poisoning once, E coli 0157:H from cooked beef, so our system clearly isn't perfect. I still stand by my position that she should be in the same foster home as her littermates. Do I think she should be thrown in a pen and left to fend for herself? Absolutely not! I raised a pup who had a broken leg and spinal cord injury at 3 weeks old. He had carefully supervised interactions with his litter multiple times during the day. People who know that he was essentially hand raised as a singleton often comment on his excellent dog manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Karen, I am curious... Why is oatmeal ok but not baby cereal? Why raw goats milk and not pasteurized? Why does it have to be raw lamb? Sorry Liz, just got back to this thread. I think your questions have been answered by others though. As was said originally the pup didn't care for the baby cereal, hence my recommendation for the oatmeal. Couple of thoughts from the OP's first post though. I really don't know if you are feeding her "enough". If she was still with the litter and nursing she'd be getting more. I would say that she should be able to "gorge" for about 3 minutes per feeding and then she may sleep peacefully, if not, she might still be hungry. As small as she is, her mouth can only go so fast.....I'd let her at the food mixture for 3 minutes every 3 or 4 hours. I really hate to limit pups intake at this age and would rather let them eat. I'd give it a try and see how she does. Oh, I thought about suggesting liver (anemia) but it might be too much for her, if you have any laying around though I'd put some of the "juice" in her cocktail And I too like the name June! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Julie, their digestive tracts really are not much different than ours. It's mostly a matter of what we are used to eating. Well, considering that my dogs at least can eat all sorts of crap *I* wouldn't dream of eating and NOT get sick, I think says something about the difference, even if it is just the bacterial composition in their guts (which would then make it different from ours). And all those discussions we've (this forum and others) had in the past regarding enteric coated vs. not for things like aspirin for dogs all seemed to hinge on the idea that food moves through a dog's gut at a different rate; that is, their digestive system is different than ours. Granted, I'm not a vet, but I honestly don't see how feeding a pup, even a sickly one, a natural diet could be so terribly harmful to it. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 I'm sorry to hear one of her littermates didn't make it. Good thoughts and prayers headed their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Lots of mojo from AZ for the little ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 FWIW: when I switched my elderly cat to a raw-ish diet, I was concerned about her ability to deal with the nasties as she had severe IBD and had a great deal of her digestive tract inflamed and not working correctly. What I did was take larger pieces of meat and drop them in boiling water for a little bit to kill the bacteria etc on the outside of the meat but didn't really cook it much. I then ground the meat in a sanitized meat grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Olivia, I sure hope the little tyke makes it. Given all the publicity of the Twilight books and movies, maybe Bella instead of Belle? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Sending lots of good Northern mojo to the little one and her mates.... Given all the publicity of the Twilight books and movies, maybe Bella instead of Belle Hmm, just goes to show how far in the sticks I am...didn't know about Belle ... or the Twilight books either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Sending lots of good Northern mojo to the little one and her mates....Hmm, just goes to show how far in the sticks I am...didn't know about Belle ... or the Twilight books either Completely OT (sorry to the OP), but I know how you feel. LaPush, Washington is one of my favorite places on earth, its a great place to stay while exploring the Olympic peninsula. You have to drive into Forks to get to LaPush on a main road. 2 years ago I took my DH (still with the new husband smell) there for a week, and we kept seeing signs in LaPush and Forks saying "Vampires Welcome" and "We Love Bella." I had to ask someone because I had never even heard of the books! I've avoided them ever since and will until the Twilight hoopla dies down and I can get my quiet little unpopular vacation spot back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martySQ Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 When I looked at her picture...my heart said Sara! although I like Belle also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Oh what sad news about her littermate. How is she doing now? You will have to post updates, say 1 per hour, so we all know how Belle is doing Were you able to get her to eat anything? What about SQ fluids? Is she hydrated? Mojo coming her way from W Tn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I'm so sorry to hear about her littermate. Sending all my best wishes your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted July 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Morning update: I got some homemade yogurt from a friend who makes her own (waaayyyy too much time on her hands :-)) and some goats milk formula and some ground lamb. She loved loved loved the yogurt when it was offered plain. I offered her just some formula and she was pretty enthusiastic so I mixed it in with her puppy mush. She ate fairly well last night but wasn't too happy about it this morning. I mixed in the yogurt this morning and she is eating her yogurt and mush at the moment. She has some strange potty habits that worry me a little. Saturday (when she arrived) she had nasty diarrhea all day. Sunday she ate really well all day but didn't poop all day! She pooped 4-5 times Sunday night/Monday early morning. Ate well Monday and didn't poop all day but again pooped 4 times Monday night/Tuesday early morning. Didn't eat well yesterday and didn't poop all day; didn't poop last night either but did poop twice when I took her outside this morning. I'm used to puppies who need to go right after eating. I'm wondering if it's taking a while for her system to adjust to food coming at regular intervals? She is a very clean puppy. I have potty pads in her area and she will cry and scream if she needs to go and when she gets outside immediately pees. Every time! This morning was the first time she pooped outside since Saturday, she's been going around 3 am, but she held it all last night til this morning. I think it's unsettling she poops so infrequently but encouraging that she seems to want to go outside to potty. She's starting to be able to trot around without losing her balance and falling down. Getting perkier. Wags her little tail when you talk to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 So glad to hear that little Belle has eaten and seems to be gaining some strength! And I am so sorry to hear about the littermate... That just breaks my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 So glad to hear that little Belle has eaten and seems to be gaining some strength! And I am so sorry to hear about the littermate... That just breaks my heart. The littermate may not have made it even under the best of circumstances. We lost 3 in a 10 litter even with the best nutrition possible and supportive care. I think you are doing everything you can for this little one. She is lucky to have you. I've given my pups poly visol too for improving the anemia. They also love summer veggies like squash in their food. We recieved a huge donation of puppy formula but, prior to that we had used pasturized goat milk from walmart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 her belly is going to be all sorts of off after the deworming, the parasites coming loose, and then regular food. When they go longer than 4 hours with nothing poo wise I will give a little caro syrup on my finger to move things along. If your friend has some goat kid or lamb liver (very healthy animals or organic) I would be sure to put tiny bits of it in her food, and porr 1 tsp of the liquid liver juice (the stuff the pools in the bowl while it is stored in the fridge) over each meal. You must, must, must...I can't emphasize this enough...be sure she is dewormed again 7 days after the last. Those eggs are going to hatch out and she'll crash quickly ime without it. If she were mine I'd deworm her weekly for at least 3 weeks. I don't bother with fecals...they're wrong most of the time anyway unless the dog is so riddled it's dying. Which is a state I hope she won't be in again. Morning update: I got some homemade yogurt from a friend who makes her own (waaayyyy too much time on her hands :-)) and some goats milk formula and some ground lamb. She loved loved loved the yogurt when it was offered plain. I offered her just some formula and she was pretty enthusiastic so I mixed it in with her puppy mush. She ate fairly well last night but wasn't too happy about it this morning. I mixed in the yogurt this morning and she is eating her yogurt and mush at the moment. She has some strange potty habits that worry me a little. Saturday (when she arrived) she had nasty diarrhea all day. Sunday she ate really well all day but didn't poop all day! She pooped 4-5 times Sunday night/Monday early morning. Ate well Monday and didn't poop all day but again pooped 4 times Monday night/Tuesday early morning. Didn't eat well yesterday and didn't poop all day; didn't poop last night either but did poop twice when I took her outside this morning. I'm used to puppies who need to go right after eating. I'm wondering if it's taking a while for her system to adjust to food coming at regular intervals? She is a very clean puppy. I have potty pads in her area and she will cry and scream if she needs to go and when she gets outside immediately pees. Every time! This morning was the first time she pooped outside since Saturday, she's been going around 3 am, but she held it all last night til this morning. I think it's unsettling she poops so infrequently but encouraging that she seems to want to go outside to potty. She's starting to be able to trot around without losing her balance and falling down. Getting perkier. Wags her little tail when you talk to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Glad to hear she made it through the night just fine. Keeping fingers crossed that things continue to go well. Seems like you've got a good support team for her, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleS. Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Nice to hear a good report about the puppy for today. She's so cute. Keeping her in my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted July 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Weighed little Belle at work today. She is a whopping 1 and 3/4 pounds! What a big girl! She ate really well today and even pooped outside tonight instead of holding it until morning. Maybe her digestive tract is getting more on schedule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Egads! She is more than itty bitty...so glad she is eating. That's the size of a 1 week old. I was just about to post that I needed an (P)update Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted July 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 I know! A friend of mine is whelping a nice working bred litter and those pups are 2.5 weeks old and significantly bigger than little Belle. She is a little mite! That's why I was so worried about her not eating... just sooooo small, makes the Chihuahua look big! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 I'm sure I'll get shouted down on this one, but if she were mine I'd call her Fly, cuz she's no bigger than one, and it's a sheepdog name. She's lucky to have found you, that's for sure. Good luck, baby, whatever your name ends up being! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Thanks for caring so much. She is a cutie to be sure. Ok...so my favorite new name is Possum. Have you named her yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 I just wanted to wish you both all the best, the before picture is so sad, a little puppy should not have to go through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Update on wee Belle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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