Jump to content
BC Boards

Safety on the Road


Recommended Posts

In 2002 was in an head on collision. My astro van was hit by a dual wheel pickup that decided to come in to my lane. Both vehicles traveling approx 45 mph.

The van rolled. Two dogs crated in the rear in metal crates. Gyp did manage to get out but circled the van till they put him in the crate with Snap. Snap's crate is still in use. Gyp's was damaged to much to continue to use. Van totaled. Gyp had some stress diareha but otherwise they were both OK. Did have emergency info for the dogs in the van. Vet's husband picked the dogs up at the fire station and took them to the clinic. I got a helecopter ride to the nearest trauma center. I believe in crateing if it is possible.

 

Jenny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And one other, very important, aspect of confining a dog - in case of an accident. you don't want a dog getting protective when police/rescue assistance is trying to help or extricate you. That confinement alone could save your dog's life.

 

Good point, Sue. I don't know what Robin would do at this point as he's still pretty young, - though he does have a very deep, scary rumbling growl that I heard just once when that Aussie attacked Brodie - if I could teach him to do that on command, I'd never worry again about any stranger coming to the door!

 

My Scotty was a very big BC with a very deep WOOF and I know that if I were incapacitated, it would have been a fight to let anyone get near me. I wouldn't want a dog to go through that or the PD/Fire/Rescue for that matter -- they're good folks doing a tough job.

 

And on the funny side....another reason for confining mischievous BCs....

 

DH takes Ladybug in the truck with him to check out a job site on a Saturday morning...no crates on these jaunts...just a man and his Ladybug. He parks on the job site and starts talking with the homeowner. The homeowner looks past him into the truck, "Nice dog, what's her name?

 

DH says, "Lady." (He's sometimes embarrassed to admit "Ladybug" to strangers.)

 

Homeowner observes, "Her name should be Queenie."

 

DH says, "Why do you think that?"

 

Homeowner smiles, says, "Because she's sitting in your seat, eating your apple " :rolleyes:.

 

Liz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've probably read the report by now, but here is the rationale: "As the pet is positioned transversely to the direction of travel, loads are distributed over the whole body and the vertebral column is not compressed." The test vehicle in this study simulated a 50 kph frontal impact; side impacts were not addressed.
The other issue I saw for the first time is the fact that most crate doors are not built to withstand the force of a dog's body hitting it during a collision without opening (much like you can grab a door by the wire a pull it open).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

Most wire crates I see reformed Dog Fanciers traveling with are too big. My 45 pound sheepdogs are safe and comfortable in Marchioro Clipper 4's 27.75 x 19.5 x 20.25.

 

Donald McCaig

Donald - That's a dig! Reformed or not, I've never considered myself a "Dog Fancier", and I have 36" crates because they are my at-home-and-in-the-house crate, and I like my dogs to have room to stretch out to sleep during those long days when I'm at work.

 

Of course, some folks also attribute use of wire crates to "Dog Fanciers", too, but for me and my situation, they suit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to mention...ahem...avoiding cellphone use when at the wheel :rolleyes:

 

No kidding, but what I live (and drive) in fear of is other people driving while dialing, talking and texting.

 

Glad everyone was o.k. in the accident.

 

A few months ago one of my neighbors walked by while I was loading the dogs in their car crates and made a comment about how restrictive I was with them and why not just let them have fun and ride loose. I mentioned their safety and my own in the event of a crash. She said she'd never thought about the fate of dogs in a crash.

 

Good reminder on the emergency directions; we've been remiss on that, but will get some made up and printed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting, and I am so glad you are all ok as well!

 

I am also someone with a tiny car that will not fit a crate big enough for an almost 50# border collie. I *think* the backseat of my yaris could hold a small crate, but you could never get it in the door. And now, I have a carseat on one side too.

 

But this makes me reconsider getting a seat belt harness, in the hopes that is better than nothing at all. Odin is so good in the car - never wants to be up front, never carsick, not aggressive, and always happy to ride causing no distractions for however far, so I don't have any of the other issues you'd need a crate for. Being a veteran commuter, he has a lot of practice. And, he already helps check in on the baby in the backseat when she fusses, as neither DH or I can see her in her rear-facing seat.

 

I did look into this when I first got him, and heard some info that in some cases where the dog is in the backseat only, loose may be better than the harness, because if they are in the backseat they typically just fly against the front seats and not out the windshield in a front-end collision, usually with little to no injury because the frontseats are padded. Rear-end collision, they are pretty well protected by the backseat. Side collisions and rolling are more worrisome, obviously, with risk of crushing/ejection. But, if they are restrained after the accident, I was told by a vet they may panic and severely injure themselves that way. I don't know what you guys think of that. Bottom line, being in a an accident is no good!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

......if they are in the backseat they typically just fly against the front seats and not out the windshield in a front-end collision.....

 

As a child (in the days before seat belts, airbags) our car was sideswiped on the driver's side and slung off the road where we front-ended into a grove of trees. I was ten years old; probably weighed about fifty pounds. I was curled up in the in the back seat, driver's side, my face against the window, as far as I could get from the other back seat passenger, my cousin because he had killed a fish I had caught, instead of removing the hook and releasing it. Probably that was the only thing that saved me from being severely injured. I was found wedged on the floor on the driver's side so I know I hit the back of the driver's seat. My father hit the steering wheel and windshield and died about two hours later of a ruptured spleen and brain injuries. I have a few injured discs in my back and a permanent suspicion of any vehicle coming at me after dark.

 

There are worse things than panicking because of being restrained.

 

Liz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I have no doubt there could be seriously bad injuries resulting from not being restrained. Let me be clear - under any circumstances it terrifies me to think of being in a serious accident with my dog, whether crated, seat-belted, or loose. And I would never mean to minimize the idea of what could happen or did happen to anyone from not being restrained. I've been in a 6-car pile-up on the freeway going 60 mph (I was car # 5 and never had a chance, so experienced a rear-end followed by a front end, was pushed into the car in front of me), so I know how much a seat belt can do (for a human at least!)

 

Let me be clear: I am not advocating this idea to others, just repeating it to ask others' opinions. I'm not sure what to make of it. When the vet told me he considered a seat-belt restraint system for dogs "a wash" if they were in the backseat, I relaxed about it, but I know vets aren't always right. But it did make some amount of sense to me at the time, the way he explained it - in a crate they are to a degree unrestrained as well, and may bash into much harder surfaces than a padded seat. Regarding panicking, dogs don't understand things the same way people do, even small children, and the vet wasn't talking about psychological effects of panic, but serious physical injury resulting from trying to get out of restraints. Knowing how badly animals can injure themselves in this state (thinking animals in traps, crated dogs with separation anxiety, etc), and the positive feedback loop often involved in panicked animals' freak-outs, that still makes sense to me.

 

The sad thing is I don't think much study has been done on this, and in general cars are specifically designed and built to keep people, not dogs, safe. I'm not at all convinced it's safer or even as safe to have Odin loose, but when I was originally beginning to take him in the car, armed with this info I took the lazier option and the one I was familiar with from having childhood dogs (and let's face it, more enjoyable for Odin - he loves looking out the window, or laying down in various positions without restraint). Now I'm feeling a LOT more intense about being proactive about keeping everyone in my life safe, though, and am leaning towards harnessing Odin anyway. I also bought new tires for the car before they were bald, when previously I would have waited until it was stupid, and am harping on my husband to go on Chantix and quit smoking when before I had always been all live-and-let-live as long as he didn't do it in the house. Obsessive mom-thoughts... ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

 

Sue wrote:

Donald - That's a dig! Reformed or not, I've never considered myself a "Dog Fancier", and I have 36" crates because they are my at-home-and-in-the-house crate, and I like my dogs to have room to stretch out to sleep during those long days when I'm at work.

 

I mentioned the smaller crates because they might fit where bigger ones wouldn't. While a folding crate is much better getting twixt the motel and the car, the dogs lack den security and. I suspect the airline crates would hold up a little better with impact.

 

Donald McCaig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Webster's Online

 

Dog fancier

Dog" fan`cier\ One who has an unusual fancy for, or interest in, dogs; also, one who deals in dogs.

 

Not really my business to butt in, but then I'm always doing it anyway... :rolleyes:

 

I don't think Mr. McCaig meant it as a dig. I had to look it up because I sort of connected the phrase with people who do conformation showing, but it (apparently) doesn't necessarily have that connotation.

 

I'm certainly interested in dogs so I guess I qualify... Who knew?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ooky et al.,

The German study that Alaska posted a link to early in this thread actually addressed two types of seatbelts as well as crates. A loose dog could simply fly into the back of the front seat, and apparently the impact of doing so could injure the animal, but as important, also seriously injure the person sitting in the seat (since the animal becomes a projectile slamming into the seat at a high rate of speed--all discussed in the study). Something to consider. If you haven't read the study (it's actually a link within one of the links she posted--the one about the eskimo dogs), it's well worth reading. They used crash test dummies for dogs and cats and people. As Mark noted, an animal striking the door of a crate after an impact is likely to pop the door and still go flying forward. In addition to the spinal compression issue Alaska mentioned in her most recent post, having the crates transverse the the direction of travel would be more likely to prevent a crate door popping open on impact from the animal inside in a rear- or front-end collision.

 

And while some may take offense at Donald's comments, the less extra room in the crate, the less the animal is likely to be tossed around and injured because of that when in an accident. Just more food for thought.

 

J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I have no doubt there could be seriously bad injuries resulting from not being restrained. Let me be clear - under any circumstances it terrifies me to think of being in a serious accident with my dog, whether crated, seat-belted, or loose. And I would never mean to minimize the idea of what could happen or did happen to anyone from not being restrained. I've been in a 6-car pile-up on the freeway going 60 mph (I was car # 5 and never had a chance, so experienced a rear-end followed by a front end, was pushed into the car in front of me), so I know how much a seat belt can do (for a human at least!)

 

Let me be clear: I am not advocating this idea to others, just repeating it to ask others' opinions. I'm not sure what to make of it. When the vet told me he considered a seat-belt restraint system for dogs "a wash" if they were in the backseat, I relaxed about it, but I know vets aren't always right. But it did make some amount of sense to me at the time, the way he explained it - in a crate they are to a degree unrestrained as well, and may bash into much harder surfaces than a padded seat. Regarding panicking, dogs don't understand things the same way people do, even small children, and the vet wasn't talking about psychological effects of panic, but serious physical injury resulting from trying to get out of restraints. Knowing how badly animals can injure themselves in this state (thinking animals in traps, crated dogs with separation anxiety, etc), and the positive feedback loop often involved in panicked animals' freak-outs, that still makes sense to me.

 

The sad thing is I don't think much study has been done on this, and in general cars are specifically designed and built to keep people, not dogs, safe. I'm not at all convinced it's safer or even as safe to have Odin loose, but when I was originally beginning to take him in the car, armed with this info I took the lazier option and the one I was familiar with from having childhood dogs (and let's face it, more enjoyable for Odin - he loves looking out the window, or laying down in various positions without restraint). Now I'm feeling a LOT more intense about being proactive about keeping everyone in my life safe, though, and am leaning towards harnessing Odin anyway. I also bought new tires for the car before they were bald, when previously I would have waited until it was stupid, and am harping on my husband to go on Chantix and quit smoking when before I had always been all live-and-let-live as long as he didn't do it in the house. Obsessive mom-thoughts... ;-)

 

I need to apologize to you publicly, having already sent a private message.... your vet's position does have some merit and you are a very great mom. I was actually thinking more about your safety and that of your baby's when I made my post...that the dog could inadvertently do you or the baby injury ....I've had to deal with the fact that my flying around the back seat of the car and hitting the back of the driver's seat added to the force of my dad hitting the steering wheel and the windshield - he probably would have died from his injuries anyway without the added weight of my impact, but who knows.....At any rate, everybody goes in a crate in the cargo area of the SUV ...and I don't ride in back seats but that's just me and my issues :rolleyes:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, but the "Dog Fancy" is something in particular, referring in general to the kennel club set, not just those interested in dogs.

 

Okay, Mr McCaig, I'll take it as a simple comment on the usefulness of smaller crates. Nevertheless, I use and plan on continued use of my larger crates for my own reasons, whether they are truly valid or not.

 

And, I have to add, my leggy Dan does not fit with any comfort in a 30" crate and neither does Celt - in my opinion. Megan (or Bute) on the other hand, would be pretty comfy in the smaller crate.

 

But, as Julie pointed out. less room in the crate means less room to be tossed about in a collision. There are many, many factors to consider. I'll have to rethink what would fit in my car and would also give me access to all the dogs.

 

Thanks to all for thoughtful comments and advice!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I need to apologize to you publicly, having already sent a private message.... your vet's position does have some merit and you are a very great mom.

 

OMG! Absolutely NO need to apologize! :D I didn't answer your PM due to a suddenly very needy individual after I wrote yesterday's post. And great mom, I doubt it, but I am trying to be as good as I can be to both puppy and babeh, which means keeping them both safe in the car (but thanks for the vote of confidence, it was appreciated today).

 

It's not good how it got started but this is such a valuable, informative thread.

 

Thanks Julie P for the redirect to Alaska's link - great info. And good point about large objects careening into the backs of the seats or elsewhere in the car - which I guess could also apply to crates too in certain circumstances/locations in the car. And lol at "ooky et al"! :D I'd co-author a paper on border collies with several members here anytime, although given my low level of experience I nominate someone else to be first author. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Just thought I'd add a bit to the thread since it's going to be quite applicable this weekend. I'm taking all three of my dogs on a trip from NC to IN (about 550 miles, 10 hours) starting tomorrow morning.

 

What we're doing for the trip:

- All three will be riding crated, despite the size of my small Subaru Impreza hatchback. Maggie gets her own Varikennel and Kes and Z will share a Midwest wire crate.

- Attached to the crates are the ICE info packets mentioned earlier in the thread. The pencil cases were 99 cents at Walmart - yay for back to school specials!

- Our ICE packets contain: a "Dogs' Emergency Info Enclosed" title page, a modified letter (similar to the one linked above), a summary of the dogs' vaccine status, a copy of their rabies certificate, and a summary sheet for any care providers (basic info on the dog, allergies, sensitivities, brief medical history, and special needs).

- I have a duplicate of the above info plus a sheet with my basic ICE info (DOB, allergies, sensitivities, brief medical history) in my glove box in a labelled envelope.

 

Just two pics. The dogs in the wire crate load up through the side door facing the back hatch, then I load the plastic crate and Maggie, and finally my stuff.

 

IMG_2119.jpg

 

IMG_2121.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...