blackacre Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 I seem to recall someone talking about this as a training method for excitable dogs. Off sheep of course. Does this come from a book? Anyone remember this? Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Turid Rugas does calming signals. She has a book and a video tape. I went to one of her seminars. A lot of what she says about dogs and training can be thrown out (way to much positive reinforcement and ignore the bad behaviour stuff) but many of the calming signals do seem to work. There are several cases where she said to use calming signals and what the dog really needed was a good correction. At the same time I've had them work for shy or scared dogs that Mom or I needed to approach and handle including a pit bull that had just been chewed up by his sire and a lost sheltie that was freaked out of her mind. It can't hurt to try it. I found that the book and video were way over priced at the seminar and they made you buy both of them together. One just repeats what the other says. The two signals that seem to work best and most often (different dogs and breeds use different signals more than others) are licking and yawning. All my dogs use these. Darcy and Devin (spooks that they are) will also stop what they are doing and start sniffing the ground when they get stressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 “On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals in Dogs” by Turid Rugaas http://www.neholistic.com/articles/0099.htm I got this book, thinking that my young rescue border collie would benefit from it. Truthfully, I wasn't that impressed. In a nutshell, the premise is that calming signals are behaviours a dog exhibits when stressed, when trying to calm down another dog or human, etc. Examples include yawning, licking noses, turning the head away from the excitable dog, etc. I read it, tried the suggestions (in my case, when fireworks were going off, I started yawning). Maybe some of it worked, but what worked better was giving her something to do (like chase a ball). I've heard other people say it really worked for them, so maybe I didn't apply the principles properly. Kristi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted March 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Thanks, that precis is about all I need. Any other suggestions for an excitable dog that jumps up when praised or petted? A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hey A, If you get that book, i want to read it when you get here. I am really playing with some stuff with poor little space case todd...we will have to brainstorm when you get here, but I have totally started over with him and am just going with what feels right instead of what I am supposed to be doing and by god if I didnt see some results tonight...it sure is hard because I am doing him all different and I dont have any template or experience or anyone to really ask...it is all on me this time...Kind of scarey but I just wont give up on him. By the end of the session tonight, he was supple, calm, honoring all body cues and working entirely off pressure, position and almost no verbal what so ever. The pace was calm, the flanks were fluid and relaxed and he was happy..so was I....I dont care if it takes me five years to run him...I am going to get it right with him...He is too nice a dog to give up on! Oh well just thought I would pipe in. I would be interested in reading that book..if you dont plan on getting it, maybe I will...Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Never mind, I just bought it..boy I love internet shopping..totally goes with my instant gratification thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted March 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by tucknjill:I....I dont care if it takes me five years to run him...I am going to get it right with him...He is too nice a dog to give up on! ...Sam Hey Sam,I don't think this book is the answer. I do have some ideas, some of which might work for Wee Todd. All from the best authorities. I'll give them all to you when I see you, I think there are certain parallels. However, I am sorry to say that none of them really worked for me, although I think I did make SOME progress. I like to think that I increased my monster's desire and willingness to please, but that just might be vanity on my part. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough. Certainly, I think it is critical for the dog to stay relaxed. I found this pretty hard to do in certain circumstances, particularly on a trial field at 400 yards. Need I say more. Anyway, I have ridden the rollercoaster and can relate 100%, so don't despair. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Oh well, cant hurt to read it... too late now anyway...besides there was another book on that site I wanted to check out... Hopefully by the time you get here, my little boy will be vastly improved and you wont see what all the fuss was about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted March 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Now that you've bought it, you'll have to lend it to me then! A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Of course, and I will lend you the other one I bought as well...Poor Toddie, asleep on the bed..been a very thought filled day for him...worked the snot out of him as well..tired muscles + tired brain + satisfied trainer = HAPPY BORDER COLLIE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totallyterry2003 Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Well, Sam and A., I will watch you out in the field with your pups. Then do just the opposite. I have my first pup that is laid back or maybe just dumb. He is now going around sheep (Jeanne even got him to take them out of the fence corner (Big improvement from our little venture with him A. ) I still feel that he lacks lots of intensity. As much as that intensity can drive you crazy, if it aint there.....it drives you crazier. On the positive side, he is so calm that he may be the first dog that I could physically train myself. The other good news is that my walk-up whistle is much better than my down which A. can testify too. I am also playing with Robin's idea on come-by and away. If I ever get it right......step aside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Laid back or maybe just dumb???? YOU ARE A RIOT! Are you going to bring him to play when you come in may? Hey look I am Dr Seuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totallyterry2003 Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I am going to bring him when we come in APRIL. It looks like I will have lots of dogs with me. Hope you are home in April as well as May. If not, don't forget to leave the door unlocked so we can take showers. One of the reasons that I think he maybe dumb:I notice that he is not in the house and I distinctly remember that he came onto the back porch with the pack after the run. I know cause I count. (If I get many more dogs, I may not be able to count that high) So I go out on the porch, there he is just sitting in crate and it is open. Now he has been in it like this for about five minutes. In five minutes, either Tweed or Beau would have been able to unbolt the dog food container and scatter food plus find a good boot and/or favorite mitten to destroy, etc. Like I said, he is slow. Big curly panda bear. Likes to cuddle up to you. Owner of Wink a.k.a Wimp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 OMG April, I know April..sheesh next you will be calling me dumb..you must note the time of my post however...Just up for the nightly bathroom break and I think it was like 430 so some lattitude must be offered! Back out to torture Toddie the terrible today...Sure wish you all could come now...was 70s yesterday and feel a tee shirt day coming on again...Finally, thought I wasnt going to make it there for awhile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totallyterry2003 Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I wish I were there also. Just got the worst snowstorm of the year. I am officially snowed in yet again. Will be there in April if I have to hitch my dogs to a dog sled and mush over the mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Andrea, Have you tried just ignoring the dog completely? No physical or verbal reaction to the jumping up, not even looking at the dog? I haven't tried this myself, but I just finished reading "The Dog Listener" by Jan Kenney, and this is what she recommends. The book was pretty interesting, but I think probably more useful for the average pet owner who has a problem dog. Anyway, if you want to try it, the key is to completely ignore the behavior and continue on with whatever you wer doing as if the dog doesn't exist. The dog should eventually go away and lie down. If he does that, you are to continue to ignore him for at least 5 minutes. After the 5 minutes is up, you can call him to you and reward him (pat, treat, whatever), but if he starts the jumping up again, then you start the ignore cycle all over again. Like I said, I have't tried it myself, but Kenney swears by her method (and the book was recommended to me by a trainer), so it may be worth a try. The idea behind the method is that you as pack leader choose when or when not to acknowledge the other pack members. Once they recognize that fact, then they will not approach you unless first invited (as, according to Kenny, would happen in a wolf pack--I know nothing about wolf pack behavior, so I can't verify if this is true). Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Regarding the jumping up - you're talking about jumping up on you and planting muddy paws on you, that sort of thing? My Spottie was the WORLDS WORST about this when i got her. She's one of those quick, hyper little dogs that just can't sit still and she could run her feet up and down me before i even said boo. I kneed her in the chest, scolded her, popped her on top of the head, held her feet, everything, for months. One day she put those feet on me and i grabbed her below her ears and picked her up to my face level and it totally rocked her world. She didn't put a foot on me for weeks after. Now i won't say she's totally cured but she sure isn't nearly as bad as she was. I think being a control freak border collie, she just couldn't stand that out of control feeling of having her feet off the ground. Hey Terry - I was doing some thinking about the command stuff and had some ideas. We'll have to try some out when you guys are here. Too bad it's not now - it's oh, 60 degrees out this morning! -Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Ah, back on topic. Kennel dog stuff you think Robin? The dog is fine until you praise him or pet him, then he starts lifting one foot, then the other, in a flash he's got his paws around me or on my chest. If I crouch down he's got his feet on my shoulders and is pushing his face into mine. Very annoying. You can smack him on the head, growl, push him down, knee him, the works. I haven't actually tried lifting him off his feet by the scruff but I'm not optimistic. It's like he's so desperate for a kind word that he freaks out at the least bit of attention. I'm with you on ignoring the behavior Julie. However, he is not DEMANDING attention. It's only if I want to praise him for doing something right or just want to give him a pat on the head that he loses it. Yo Robin, if we're going to see you at Sam's make sure you get a key. Looks like Sam is expecting us later and might not even be there. Don't know about you Sam but in May I plan to be at the Bluegrass cleaning up ha ha. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hey Andrea - Yeah, i think it's kennel dog stuff. Spottie can hardly help herself, she's just so friggin happy. It helps that she's got this adorable personality cause otherwise she'd drive me nuts! Oh yeah, and she likes to win dog trials every once in a while too. Here's a thought after hearing more about your dog -- lie him down before you praise him and make him stay down while he's being praised. Correct him if he gets up and then praise him while he's down. Make sure he keeps the elbows down. Incompatible behaviors, ya know? Come on Bluegrass! I am dying for it to get here, what a terrific trial. I'm gonna be a busy girl though, think i entered for like 12 runs on the 2 fields. Whew! -Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Inci mi amore, Nice. Ever hear the one about Tommy advising Kent on how to shed? I would however like to praise the little s--t sometime if he does something well. Kind of a relationship thing, eh? So I'm onside on the bopping etc but the leash thing is a stroke of genius, for some reason I never thought of that. Hey Robin, How you liking Gael? Gonna run her at the Bluegrass? A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Oh come on now, one little memory lapse and suddenly you all need keys...sheesh! I tell you, I never know who I am going to run into when I come home on the weekends...Its like a darn motel most of the time! Thank god for people who come and work sheep and like tending to animals! So when are you guys coming exactly??? Just want to make sure I am home...you are coming during the week right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted March 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 The 18th, unless the thought of having us from then until the clinic is more than you can stand. How far are you from Lori's? A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Andrea, I'd guess Sam is about 7hrs from Lori's (B-on-P) taking US15 south to US17 to Fredericksburg and I95 down to Richmond. All bets are off in travel time if you go aroud the DC beltway. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Nope that will be great fun!!! I just wanted to put it in my book so I would know when you would be here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Andrea - Yep, gonna run the black beast at the Bluegrass. Who you running? If you guys have time when you're here, maybe y'all and Sam can buzz over to my place to work sheep too. I'm a couple of hours south and you'll get a different flavor field to work on. -Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.