arf2184 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Meg is a two year old rescue that we brought home in April. Meg's recall and fear of my dad were our biggest issues when she first arrived in April. Her recall his greatly improved and we can let her off leash in some situations now. Dad has been walking her through the fields and working with her and she's no longer afraid of him and will gladly come to him as well as she comes to me. She will heel off leash too. Our trouble comes when the leash is on. From day one, when we walked past another dog or a cat in the neighborhood she's reacted by barking, whining, spinning in circles, and jumping up and down. From that first walk on, when she did this I'd sit her down facing me with her back to the distraction and waited until she calmed down, ignoring whatever it was that set her off, then we'd move on. Initially it did not take long for her breathing to return to normal and for her to look at me like 'ok, what's next?'. After the first week of being walked twice a day, she seemed to improve some in that she'd only react to the dogs that were running the fence and barking like mad. The calm dogs, she'd glance at then ignore. However over the past three weeks, she's gotten worse. Now not only is she reacting to all other dogs and cats, she reacts to houses that have had other dogs or cats in the yard on previous walks, even if there is no dog or cat there at that moment. She has a great memory and starts panting and whining when we're a block and a half away, long before we even know if there is a dog in the yard that day. She's taking longer to calm down and she starts up again right when we start walking so its taking quite a while to just get past one house and I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated with the whole thing. She's also started jumping up and grabbing my arm with her paws, which has left long scratches on my arm. When meeting other dogs, she's submissive and gets along well, wanting to play. She also gets along well with cats and loves the office cat at the vet. It's just when we're on a walk that she has issues. I've tried distracting her with the smell of treats (before she starts to focus on the dog, cat, yard, house, etc) but it doesn't work. I'm not sure what else to do. We start obedience class tomorrow and I will ask the trainer for suggestions, but any ideas on how to make our walks more pleasant would be appreciated. If it helps any, the trigger for her getting worse may have been when my lab was attacked by a pit bull. Meg and I were walking about a half block behind my friend and Bear (my lab mix). A pit bull was tied up in front of a house and he started charging towards Bear, broke his chain and went straight for Bear's face and neck. Bear tried to get away but the pit wasn't giving up. He ended up locking his jaw on Bear's shoulder. At that point, the pit's owners had come out and we were able to calm Bear down (by some miracle...I don't know that I could ever calm down with a pit attached to me) and just stood there waiting for the pit to let go so his owner could haul him into the house. Fortunately, Bear has a lot of thick, loose skin around his neck and shoulders and came away with just a few nicks, missing fur and bruises...nothing major but he was sore for a few days afterward. Bear moved on quickly and not 15 minutes later was happily playing in the creek. I was shook up for the rest of the walk though. Meg stayed out of the whole thing and didn't seem to be affected by it at the time, but now I wonder. It was after that that she started looking ahead for yards where dogs have been in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiedawgs Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Wow...poor Bear...I hope he ended up ok after being attacked? If you've only had her since April - that's not very long, just a couple of months at most, so she needs to learn to trust you, and get comfortable with her environment. Rescue dogs can often come with a lot of hidden baggage (do you know anything about her back ground?) and leash reactivity is common with a lot of dogs. I would think that having a dog break it's tie and come charging to attack Bear would have an effect on her. Is there any way you can avoid walking her in situations like that until you can get some help from your instructor? Usually, the more a dog practices this the more entrenched it becomes so the first thing might be to avoid the situations until you can get a handle on the behavior. I live in a rural area, so we don't encounter this much where I hike the dogs but when I'm visiting my mother in NC, it's more suburban and there are more dogs behind fences, and dog walkers. I carry yummy treats (yummy being cheese, chicken, hot dogs, real liver etc) with me so when we meet dog walkers with dogs I'm not sure my dog will be ok with - I move off the path have him sit facing me and feed him. When we pass houses with dogs in the yard - I get out the treats and walk him past on the far side feeding him as we go so his attention is on my, not the other dog. If there is a really aggressive dog - I put as much distance as possible between us and the dog. That doesn't really address the behavior but might help from getting worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 If it helps any, the trigger for her getting worse may have been when my lab was attacked by a pit bull. Meg and I were walking about a half block behind my friend and Bear (my lab mix). A pit bull was tied up in front of a house and he started charging towards Bear, broke his chain and went straight for Bear's face and neck. Bear tried to get away but the pit wasn't giving up. He ended up locking his jaw on Bear's shoulder. At that point, the pit's owners had come out and we were able to calm Bear down (by some miracle...I don't know that I could ever calm down with a pit attached to me) and just stood there waiting for the pit to let go so his owner could haul him into the house. Fortunately, Bear has a lot of thick, loose skin around his neck and shoulders and came away with just a few nicks, missing fur and bruises...nothing major but he was sore for a few days afterward. Bear moved on quickly and not 15 minutes later was happily playing in the creek. I was shook up for the rest of the walk though. Meg stayed out of the whole thing and didn't seem to be affected by it at the time, but now I wonder. It was after that that she started looking ahead for yards where dogs have been in the past. Not related to your question, but that whole scenario just bothers me. Part of being a responsible pit bull owner is having a break stick in the event your dog gets into a fight. I even have one, and Sinead hasn't shown the slightest bit of dog aggression (which is honestly rare) ever. They do not like letting go. I mean, last night, I spent about 10 minutes straight with my hand inside her mouth because she was very intent on swallowing a cat toy...until I grabbed it, then she was just intent on not ever letting it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Part of being a responsible pit bull owner is having a break stick in the event your dog gets into a fight. Oops....Irresponsible pit bull owner here=) I don't have a breaking stick(and wouldn't know how to use one anyway).....And like your girl, our 12 year old boy has never shown any aggression either.... Living dangerously~ Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I would absolutely say that the attack on bear could have set your Meg back months in her desensitization. I have a dog a lot like yours - down to his almost biting my dog-loving and dog-beloved father the first day! - and even after 5 years, he can still backslide if we run into an unexpected situation. Lots of recent posts on fear reactivity and fear aggression in response to other dogs - I think if you do a search, you'll find lots of good advice. (I'm exhausted right now, and can remember typing about this fairly recently... so I'm too lazy to do it again. Bad girl!) Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Not related to your question, but that whole scenario just bothers me. Part of being a responsible pit bull owner is having a break stick in the event your dog gets into a fight. I even have one, and Sinead hasn't shown the slightest bit of dog aggression (which is honestly rare) ever. They do not like letting go. I mean, last night, I spent about 10 minutes straight with my hand inside her mouth because she was very intent on swallowing a cat toy...until I grabbed it, then she was just intent on not ever letting it go. This will NOT be a popular solution for the positive only crowd. But when a dog is refusing to "out" an object that could be hazardous to it's health, I dig a thumbnail into the flap of the ear. The dog will yelp and the object is yours. You really have to dig deep with Pits and retrievers because they generally have a really high pain threshold. I once watched my landlady struggling with her poodle/mini-schnauzer mix who had taken possession of a plastic bottle full of tranquilizers. The dog weighed maybe 18lbs, and she was getting nowhere with him. The whole time he was bearing down on that pill bottle and it was only a matter of time before he cracked it open. I got the attention of her teenage son and said, "Dig your thumbnail into his ear-flap." He did. Dog hollered, pill bottle went flying and the heads-up son caught it. Landlady got a bit huffy, but when I asked if she would prefer a dog dead from a tranquilizer overdose, or one who had a very expensive surgery to remove plastic shards from his stomach and intestines, she changed her tune. Ear pinching is not in my training repertoire, but sometimes in an emergency you need a "blunt instrument." Dunno what kind of cat toy your Pit had, but some of them can be very problematic when swallowed by dogs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arf2184 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Not related to your question, but that whole scenario just bothers me. Bothered me too...the owners were apologetic and gave the usual "he's never done that before". I'd rather the whole thing never happened, but I'm glad that the pit went for Bear and not Meg. Bear is about 80 lbs and under normal circumstances doesn't scare easily. I don't think Meg would have come out of it so well...physically and mentally. There's no avoiding walks (not without the dogs bouncing off the walls come evening) and no completely avoiding houses with dogs or roaming cats. We have been spending the majority of our walk out in the fields or by the airport (no houses out there). As for her history, she's been passed around quite a bit. Her last owner (before 2nd foster home) had her five months and from what it sounds like, he mainly just walked her around the property with his group of dogs....not likely she had much time walking on leash through neighborhoods. Prior to that, she was in another foster home, a shelter, and who knows before that. She's adjusting well to our home...still has a ways to go and we're focusing on one issue at a time, starting with the biggest ones. I'm just not sure how to address this particular issue since sitting and focusing on me isn't working anymore. Will see what the trainer suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Oops....Irresponsible pit bull owner here=) I don't have a breaking stick(and wouldn't know how to use one anyway).....And like your girl, our 12 year old boy has never shown any aggression either.... Living dangerously~ Janet It's a matter of risk assessment. I choose to have one in the hope I never have to use it type of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 This will NOT be a popular solution for the positive only crowd. But when a dog is refusing to "out" an object that could be hazardous to it's health, I dig a thumbnail into the flap of the ear. The dog will yelp and the object is yours. You really have to dig deep with Pits and retrievers because they generally have a really high pain threshold. I once watched my landlady struggling with her poodle/mini-schnauzer mix who had taken possession of a plastic bottle full of tranquilizers. The dog weighed maybe 18lbs, and she was getting nowhere with him. The whole time he was bearing down on that pill bottle and it was only a matter of time before he cracked it open. I got the attention of her teenage son and said, "Dig your thumbnail into his ear-flap." He did. Dog hollered, pill bottle went flying and the heads-up son caught it. Landlady got a bit huffy, but when I asked if she would prefer a dog dead from a tranquilizer overdose, or one who had a very expensive surgery to remove plastic shards from his stomach and intestines, she changed her tune. Ear pinching is not in my training repertoire, but sometimes in an emergency you need a "blunt instrument." Dunno what kind of cat toy your Pit had, but some of them can be very problematic when swallowed by dogs... Yeah, I'll have to give it a try with her. This was a fairly large stuffed cat toy with bells. Definitely not something I needed her to be swallowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Bothered me too...the owners were apologetic and gave the usual "he's never done that before". I'd rather the whole thing never happened, but I'm glad that the pit went for Bear and not Meg. Bear is about 80 lbs and under normal circumstances doesn't scare easily. I don't think Meg would have come out of it so well...physically and mentally. There's no avoiding walks (not without the dogs bouncing off the walls come evening) and no completely avoiding houses with dogs or roaming cats. We have been spending the majority of our walk out in the fields or by the airport (no houses out there). As for her history, she's been passed around quite a bit. Her last owner (before 2nd foster home) had her five months and from what it sounds like, he mainly just walked her around the property with his group of dogs....not likely she had much time walking on leash through neighborhoods. Prior to that, she was in another foster home, a shelter, and who knows before that. She's adjusting well to our home...still has a ways to go and we're focusing on one issue at a time, starting with the biggest ones. I'm just not sure how to address this particular issue since sitting and focusing on me isn't working anymore. Will see what the trainer suggests. At least they apologized. Mick once had his head ripped open by a Lab (he was about 10 months or so, unneutered, very submissive at the time, and didn't fight back). The owner was just like, "Oh yeah, he doesn't like male dogs" and wasn't even planning on leaving the park with her dog. To this day, he hates retrievers. Best of luck with her. And, dogs do eventually show progress with their issues, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time. And, being passed around isn't going to help any dog feel secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Yeah, I'll have to give it a try with her. This was a fairly large stuffed cat toy with bells. Definitely not something I needed her to be swallowing. Maybe you could start working on her giving up what she got hold of for a more attractive alternative - like a bit of ham or cheese? If she learned to release on command you might never need to employ the evil ear-pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Maybe you could start working on her giving up what she got hold of for a more attractive alternative - like a bit of ham or cheese? If she learned to release on command you might never need to employ the evil ear-pinch. I'm working on the release on command thing. Not going all that great. She'll occasionally drop something she has for a high value treat/toy, but not on any sort of consistent basis. It's annoying, but on the other hand, she's great at sit/lie down/here and will usually walk at an off-leash heel with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiedawgs Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 I'm working on the release on command thing. Not going all that great. She'll occasionally drop something she has for a high value treat/toy, but not on any sort of consistent basis. It's annoying, but on the other hand, she's great at sit/lie down/here and will usually walk at an off-leash heel with me. I've worked on that with one of my dogs and it does take a while. We play "trade" - I start out with a high value treat in hand, and he has a fairly low value object - I'll say "give", he drops it, gets treat and in the meantime I pick it up and then hand it back to him. We do this a long time and then, until he drops it as soon as he see's I have something. Then, I quit having the treat visable and I ask him to give, if he doesn't - well - too bad - one of his siblings gets the treats (boy do they hate that). Eventually, he gives. What's cute is one of my other dogs started bringing me objects (like dirty socks) to exchange for treats....interesting possibilities in that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njnovice Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 I've worked on that with one of my dogs and it does take a while. We play "trade" - I start out with a high value treat in hand, and he has a fairly low value object - I'll say "give", he drops it, gets treat and in the meantime I pick it up and then hand it back to him. We do this a long time and then, until he drops it as soon as he see's I have something. Then, I quit having the treat visable and I ask him to give, if he doesn't - well - too bad - one of his siblings gets the treats (boy do they hate that). Eventually, he gives. What's cute is one of my other dogs started bringing me objects (like dirty socks) to exchange for treats....interesting possibilities in that LOL, last night Mick stole a bag of cat treats out of the bedroom. He brought them to me on command and willingly gave it up. I gave him a couple cat treats in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 However over the past three weeks, she's gotten worse. Now not only is she reacting to all other dogs and cats, she reacts to houses that have had other dogs or cats in the yard on previous walks, even if there is no dog or cat there at that moment. She has a great memory and starts panting and whining when we're a block and a half away, long before we even know if there is a dog in the yard that day. She's taking longer to calm down and she starts up again right when we start walking so its taking quite a while to just get past one house and I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated with the whole thing. She's also started jumping up and grabbing my arm with her paws, which has left long scratches on my arm. When meeting other dogs, she's submissive and gets along well, wanting to play. She also gets along well with cats and loves the office cat at the vet. It's just when we're on a walk that she has issues. I've tried distracting her with the smell of treats (before she starts to focus on the dog, cat, yard, house, etc) but it doesn't work. I'm not sure what else to do. We start obedience class tomorrow and I will ask the trainer for suggestions, but any ideas on how to make our walks more pleasant would be appreciated. You'd be surprised how much our dogs pick up from us, that we don't even realize we're passing through the leash. You said that you were understandably quite upset when the attack happened, perhaps you are feeling tense when passing through that area again? I know I would. That would contribute to her reaction. I would make sure treats are high value. For my dogs that would be real chicken, cheese, or hot dogs. Jedi would also consider a ball or tug high value. I would take those with me to a different neighborhood and work with her there to see if she can start associating walking with good things without the anxiety that would be coming from a memory, or inadvertantly from you. In my neighborhood, I would walk out the door, a few doors down ...treats...play..praise...turn around and back in. Next day repeat and go a bit farther ...next day repeat and go a bit farther...before you know it you'll be going a few blocks and then eventually the whole way hopefully. I would still avoid the house where the attack happened. You really don't know for sure that it won't happen again. This method takes alot of patience I know..I had to do it once with Jedi who developed a fear of a street lamp. Good luck and hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 There's no avoiding walks (not without the dogs bouncing off the walls come evening) and no completely avoiding houses with dogs or roaming cats. We have been spending the majority of our walk out in the fields or by the airport (no houses out there). The way this is written, it sounds like they are always walked together. Are you sure Bear isn't the one getting nervous, and Meg isn't picking up on it and being a lot more expressive/neurotic about showing it (is he more of a leader, and she more of a follower?) Or are you getting nervous? BCs are really good at picking up on others' emotions (dog and human). My other advice would be to get dogs into the habit of downing so often they will listen even when over threshold and doing relaxation protocol work with them to teach them to relax when in a down. Then when they (or if it's just Meg) freak out, put them in a down so they'll auto-relax and once you see the relaxation on them start walking again. Also it is important to stay neutral and not react positively or negatively, just ignore. Easier said than done. Sometimes you have to be really Zen with a reactive dog. I also second what Georgia said about walking shorter distances at first. Also, good luck in obedience with a dog-reactive dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pammyd Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 This incident may have had an effect - but also she has only been with you a short time so she is settling down and her behaviour will be changing now she knows she is home I would totaly recomend either the book 'control unleashed' or 'click to calm' both are very helpful For the moment I would do my best to keep her calm Give her lots of praise and rewards for walking nicely with you When you see her start to tense and get stressed about something give her a couple of treats then happily say 'lets go' and walk in the other direction Give her the space she needs with other dogs - walk away cross over the road - whatever Keeping her calm (the more she practises reactivity then better she will be at it) reward her for focus on you and show her that you understand when she is not happy with something and wont force her to it if she wont take a treat its because she is too stressed - get out of there I do wonder when you are saying she is spinning on the lead and she is nice when she meets other dogs that she might be frustraited and wants to see the other dogs - you still need to get her under control because other dogs might take offnece and go for her and she would learn to be aggressie and obedience with an reactive dog is more than possible if the trainer knows and you can have the space you need. I sat in the back of the class for a few weeks feeding Mia every time a dog moved, then slowly working on some exercises in the corner then over time we were able to work in the class with the other dogs around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiedawgs Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 LOL, last night Mick stole a bag of cat treats out of the bedroom. He brought them to me on command and willingly gave it up. I gave him a couple cat treats in return. Wow - good boy! Cat treats are so wonderfully stinky dogs usually love them. I have one dog that will carefully consider her options before "trading" she clearly knows the value and calibrates how to get the "most bang for her buck" We have a fully fenced (chain link) back yard and 5 dogs - any animal that gets into it is clearly swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool. One day, I'm sitting in my chair quietly reading when I hear this plaintive cry from my husband - "you'd better come check out Hazel, she has something in her mouth and won't give it up"....he doesn't say what though. So I go over to the mudroom where she is waiting to be let in from the yard and she's standing there with her jaws clamped around something...something that has two bunny ears poking out the side of her mouth. Yum. The look in her eyes says there is no way you are going to get this out of my mouth and her jaws are clamped as tightly as any pitbull, as is the steely determination in her face would deter even the bravest would-be scavenger. So, took a big handful of dog biscuits out of the bin and showed them to her...then tossed them on the floor. Wheels turning....calculations performed....she drops the "prize" and starts gobbling up biscuits as fast as she can while we calmly remove the "object". I don't know what happened to the rest of the bunny....and, not sure I want to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arf2184 Posted June 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Also, good luck in obedience with a dog-reactive dog... That's the funny thing...its just when we're on walks. At the vet, she did fine and calmly let the office cat come visit her when we first arrived then shared the waiting room with two other dogs while we waited to pay the bill. At the park (not a dog park) on the Flexi, she hasn't reacted to other leashed dogs...just stares at them for a minute, then goes back to sniffing. We have not walked past the pit bull's house again...I know I'd be nervous if we did and I don't want to risk a repeat event. I usually walk them together, though not always. If my sister is home, sometimes we'll each take a dog and walk separate routes. I don't think she's reacting to me or Bear...sometimes she spots the dog or cat before I do and she'll react regardless of whether Bear is there or not. Bear stays calm through the whole thing, standing or sitting next to me while I get Meg under control. Turning around to avoid houses with dogs will be difficult. I can't get two houses down in either direction without going past a 'dog' house. We could drive somewhere where there are no houses, but it just seems like avoiding the issue rather than resolving it. she might be frustrated and wants to see the other dogs I wonder about this. She does not look like she wants to play while she's freaking out, but maybe? There is a mellow German Shepard 4 houses down that I hope will be a regular playmate. They've met several times. She still initially reacts to him the same way she does other dogs. I calm her down before we let them sniff then they both go into play mode. Would you handle it any differently if she is frustrated because she wants to play rather than reacting out of fear? I will check out the books. Thanks for the suggestions! I'm almost finished with Patricia McConnell's books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 I would totaly recomend either the book 'control unleashed' or 'click to calm' both are very helpful I found Click to Calm by Emma Parsons to be fantastic for a very similar situation with my Sheltie who shrieked at dogs/cats/children/adults/falling leaves on our walks. Very quickly she went from shrieking to looking at me the second she saw a dog/cat/kid/adult/falling leaf approaching us. I now routinely get compliments on the silent, well behaved Sheltie prancing at my side as we walk past her old triggers. Previous attempts to use correction or punishment had little effect in changing her behavior. I would try to start at times when you are least likely to run into your dog's triggers. I think it was very helpful that when I began working in this with my Sheltie, it was during winter so we ran into relatively few people and animals on our cold, dark walks compared to the parade you can run into during great weather. Also, these early walks were just her and me until she was showing improvement. But the good news was the improvement came quickly and dramatically. I also find Click to Calm to be a wonderful primer for clicker training in general. And as an aside, I used a verbal marker ("yes") rather than a clicker on our walks. Control Unleashed has rave reviews from lots of people but I found the format of the book not the most user friendly and Click to Calm seemed more on target with my dogs' behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pammyd Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 In reality I dont think I would treat frustration any different than any other reactivity - its all about teaching her to be calm around the triggers We can only really guess at why a dog is doing something, but if you work on keeping her calm and rewarding calm behaviour then thats what you will start to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arf2184 Posted June 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Our first class went great. Meg did very well around the other dogs...initially when we got there was a nervous 'classmate' who was barking, growling, and lunging which upset one of the instructors dogs who also started nervous growling (he's a rescue she's only had for a few months). Meg growled a bit until the nervous lunging dog went to another room. Around the rest of her classmates, she was calm, just a bit curious. Towards the second half of class, the instructor was in the middle with someone else's dog showing us how to teach using just hand signals. Meg never took her eyes off of her. The instructor finished one time of going over sit, lay down, and stand up using only hand signals (no words) with the 'demo' dog. When she repeated it to show us again, Meg started doing everything the instructor was telling the other dog to do. We were about 10 feet away....it was funny. I just need to train myself and my family to be more consistent with our hand signals now. We're working on "yes" as a marker in class. I will definitely check out Click to Calm. Our instructor suggested using treats to reward calm behavior while on a walk and also to distract from other dogs on our walks (though being careful not to reward the unwanted behavior). We're going to try that this week. Before, I unsuccessfully tried to use them as a distraction to prevent the behavior, not as a reward to the desired behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Before, I unsuccessfully tried to use them as a distraction to prevent the behavior, not as a reward to the desired behavior. And that makes a big difference. While there is a place for using a "treat magnet" as management at times, a dog that is over threshold and is reacting is way past the point where using treats to distract is going to solve much of anything. But consistently rewarding calm behavior will do two things. It will help you to be more focused on your dog's good behavior. And it will help your dog learn to offer the calm behavior that you want under progressively more challenging circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Our first class went great. Meg did very well around the other dogs...initially when we got there was a nervous 'classmate' who was barking, growling, and lunging which upset one of the instructors dogs who also started nervous growling (he's a rescue she's only had for a few months). Meg growled a bit until the nervous lunging dog went to another room. Around the rest of her classmates, she was calm, just a bit curious. Towards the second half of class, the instructor was in the middle with someone else's dog showing us how to teach using just hand signals. Meg never took her eyes off of her. The instructor finished one time of going over sit, lay down, and stand up using only hand signals (no words) with the 'demo' dog. When she repeated it to show us again, Meg started doing everything the instructor was telling the other dog to do. We were about 10 feet away....it was funny. I just need to train myself and my family to be more consistent with our hand signals now. We're working on "yes" as a marker in class. I will definitely check out Click to Calm. Our instructor suggested using treats to reward calm behavior while on a walk and also to distract from other dogs on our walks (though being careful not to reward the unwanted behavior). We're going to try that this week. Before, I unsuccessfully tried to use them as a distraction to prevent the behavior, not as a reward to the desired behavior. You can use "yes" as a marker to do the same thing as Click to Calm. But the book is still worth it. As for what Meg did in class, ok so Meg is really smart and eager to please. That's good news! I had a really smart dog with this problem too... Just an idea: I used reduced fat cheese whiz and peanut butter on walks (as soon as the frustration happened, I told her to sit and then down, giving her the chewy gooey mess as soon as she did). Something about the chewy gooey yummy goodness of these treats helped distract and therefore desensitize her to triggers (the gooey treating was on the advice of an all positive trainer we consulted and the obedience work was on the advice of a board certified veterinary behaviorist we consulted). Kongs stuffed with peanut butter, I've discovered, even help my stormphobic dog Vala during storms. I have actually been able over the past couple of days to convert her nervous digging into comfort Kong-sucking--with the help of xanax anyway. (It's storm season down here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pammyd Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 yup you cant bark with your mouth all gunked up with yummy peanut butter another great thing agility dogs use lots is holding a toy - not only does it stop barking but also the pressure in the mouth is supposed to actually calm the dog down oh for a toy motivated dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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