Advice Please !!! At My Wits End !!!

[Andy Brown]

We have had our Border Collie 'Whiskey' who is 9 months old for 3 weeks now, we took him in off a couple who said they were unable to look after him any longer due to the husband going full time with work and his wife being pregnant as well as having 2 children already.

 

They claimed he was well behaved and was calm in the house, I don't think they were being completely honest truth be known, now I fully understood the commitment required when taking in a Collie and have been spending loads of time with him.

 

He doesn't appear to have had much training and we have been constantly working with him getting him to sit, down, stay and attempting recall which is proving tough, he also gets 2 good hour walks a day without fail.

 

The issues im having is that he will not settle easily at all when in the house, he constantly attention seeks and when you stroke him or try to get his paws off the furniture he will start to bite (not hard) and will get hyper.

 

The only way to halt the behavior is to remove him to the kitchen ( which I feel guilty about ) on his own where he calms down, as soon as he is let back in to the living room the antics begin again, it's getting to be a nightmare, once he does settle hes fine and never causes any issues through the night, he just seems to find the transition from play to rest extremely difficult.

 

Even training him in the garden is tough and doesn't last long as he is more interested in chasing the birds from bush to bush and barking at them.

 

We are determined to gain the upper hand in this relationship as I can see that he will be a superb dog once he learns to calm down but at the moment it is very wearing.

 

Please advice it will be greatly appreciated

[Carlasl]

CRATE TRAIN!

 

There are a lot of posts on this subject, but you need to teach this pup what we call an "off switch", it is a common misconception that border collie's need insane amounts of exercise or they will be a menace in the house. What they need is to be taught how to settle down when it is not play time (which seems to be what you are asking for). And they need lots of "Mental" stimulation.

 

I am a huge fan of crate training my pups, it is not a punishment or a bad place, in fact my dogs generally love their crates because from a young age I have used it as a place to chill and get good things (like meaty bones, or stuffed Kongs or bully sticks).

 

Since I do not train my dogs on stock, I prefer to use operant conditioning with the use a clicker, basically I train with positive reinforcement (treats or toys) and I use a clicker to "mark" the correct behavior. There are tons and tons of resources out there if you are interested in that form of training. My dogs learn all sorts of things like focusing attention, cute tricks and things that are important for living in my house hold mostly in a positive way. I do use a verbal no or ah for undesirable behavior also, I want my dogs to be able to take a correction and choose another behavior and get rewarded for that as well. There are some very good books out there for trick training, if you are interested in that.

 

I would say any time the pup is not actively being engaged in the house (with a training or play session) he is in the crate with something tasty to chew on. Or the second he does not obey a "settle" command, he goes in the crate, not as a punishment, just as a way to "help" him learn to settle.

 

As for recall, I go about a recall two ways, the first is that until the pup has a reliable recall he is on a long line, even in a fenced in backyard, that way my command cannot be ignored, if you blow me off, you will get reeled in. At the same time obeying the "come" command is ALWAYS positive, even if I did have to reel you in, so LOTS of treats and a game of tug or whatever reward your dog likes most should happen when they get to you.

 

If the dog does not respond to a come command and it is off leash, then the "walk down" is usually very effective also......calmly without saying a word walk straight to the dog, if they walk off follow, most dogs eventually will either lie down or come to you, I then clip the long lead on and we practice the recall with lots of rewards.

[Rave]

In addition to the good advice Carla gave, I'll add sign up for a basic obedience class. This will help you learn how to train under the advice of an expert. Sounds like your dog also needs a play outlet. Teach him to fetch or play a game with you so that he has an outlet and a way to expend mental and physical energy. This has the added benefit of teaching how to interact with you, i.e. with a toy, not with his teeth.

[Journey]

Use cookie rewards as well. Instead of reprimanding him for feet on furniture teach him with a cookie reward what "off" is, you have to "show" him what you not, not get upset with what he does wrong. There are lots of games you can play with him that are not only motivational but will help him to use his mind instead of his feet/teeth.

[bc friend]

I would comment that at 9 months, he's still a puppy - since he's been moved around some (probably breeder/1st owner/now 2nd owner) he hasn't had much time to learn and remember good manners. He's a youngster and should respond to training pretty easily. There's a lot of posts on here about crate training, tethering, etc. Border collies are smart - but they do need some help initially!

 

I'm sure you'll be bragging on your wonderfully behaved dog in no time at all!

[gcv-border]

Carla's response was excellent - and the additional advice as also helpful.

 

One thing I might add is to reward his quiet times. Yes, you can teach him "off" by positive motivation, but I also try to CAPTURE behaviors that he does voluntarily (i.e. staying quietly on the rug for example or any other behavior that he does that you like but have not actively asked for). I reward with a low & soft "good boy", a treat and/or a pat (a pat when he is older). I do not use my happy voice for instances like this since that tends to energize. In the beginning, he may get energized when you treat for being quiet, but he should learn to just stay there and accept his treat - eventually.

 

Good Luck and be prepared to be a walking/talking treat dispenser for a while.

 

Jovi

[Andy Brown]

Than you all so much for the reply's, I have got a crate now and looking to get him used to it, he's not to bad and will go in from time to time on his own but will occassionally start to pull his bedding up and start scratching madly at the tray in the bottom, part of that problem maybe that he still also has the bed that we initially got him that he seems to prefer and he sleeps in that in the kitchen at night, I will look to use the crate more for him especially when we need him to chill and provide him with a chew to hopefully let him settle.

 

I am using reward based training with him, we we also do a lot in the garden working on commands and he is doing fairly well until he decides the birds need chasing, then even the tasty treats take a back seat, a long line will be my next purchase I think !!!

[Alchemist]

Even training him in the garden is tough and doesn't last long as he is more interested in chasing the birds from bush to bush and barking at them.

and

 

we also do a lot in the garden working on commands and he is doing fairly well until he decides the birds need chasing, then even the tasty treats take a back seat, a long line will be my next purchase I think !!!

I think the suggestions you've gotten to date are great. He is only nine months old, and like most teenagers, you have to expect that he'll lose his brain from one day to the next.

 

My only addition is to note: it sounds as if he may be at risk of developing an obsession about chasing the birds in your back yard and barking, annoying both you and the neighbors in the process. If you were to start to let him know that this is NOT an approved activity (depending on your personal style: either simply bring him indoors when it happens, or else precede the trip indoors by saying "HEY! NO CHASING BIRDS", this may help you forestall obsessive-compulsive behaviors that might otherwise prove very annoying in the long term, not to mention very difficult to break him of.

 

Border collies can become obsessive about things within a nanosecond. Vigilance is invaluable. Things that may initially seem "cute" often turn out to be very detrimental.

 

Good luck!!! And post photos!

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

As others have said, he is only a youngster, so it will take some time, practice, patience and work, but it will happen, if you are diligent and consistent. Generally speaking (I've fostered a few dogs), it can take anywhere from 1 week to a few months for a dog to settle into his new home. This can be a very trying time on many different levels depending on the dog. Your boy sounds very familiar to the one I just adopted. OMG, the first week or two was terrible! He wouldn't crate at my house but he spent 3 months in his foster home on strict crate rest due to an injury, so I knew he was crate trained. He was a maniac most of the time, getting into trouble, wouldn't settle, mouthing and pawing to get attention etc. But with some persistence on our part and a good doggy day care/training facility we pushed through it. So you can too! He was over-stimulated and a little low in confidence and this is why he was acting out. His whole world had be turned upside down and he had no idea what to do about it.

 

With the mouthing/pawing/jumping up on us all I did was ensure that every-time he did so, I turned my back and completely ignored him, no talking, no touching, no eye contact. Sometimes this meant I turned in a couple complete circles, but withdrawing all attention from him was what had to happen. Once he stopped, I would reward him with either a pat/treat/praise. If he started whatever he was doing again, I would repeat. When a dog is seeking attention, even negative attention is rewarding to them. Negative attention meaning, you pushing them off you or off the couch, looking at him etc.

 

A long line would be a great investment. As would some kongs that you can fill with kibble, yoghurt, broth, peanut butter etc. and even freeze for an extra hard work out. There are also a lot of other interactive food dispensing toys out there that are wonderful.

[Mariji]

The attention seeking may take a while to fade away. My newest dog was 8 when I got her and she was extremely clingy. I could push her away for an hour and she would keep trying to constantly be sitting on my lap. It took her 3 months to get over this and now I need only push her away once when I have had enough and she will go sit in the crate in the lounge where she feels safe. So yes crate training will provide much relief!

 

As for training you will need the best possible treats, steak, roo, chicken anything that is extra yummy. And just time spent on working on the pups training as it has obviously had none. It will all come together and he will get better over time. You can't expect him to be perfect in just 3 weeks. He is younga dn will learn very quickly but just remember to be patient.

[Andy Brown]

and

I think the suggestions you've gotten to date are great. He is only nine months old, and like most teenagers, you have to expect that he'll lose his brain from one day to the next.

 

My only addition is to note: it sounds as if he may be at risk of developing an obsession about chasing the birds in your back yard and barking, annoying both you and the neighbors in the process. If you were to start to let him know that this is NOT an approved activity (depending on your personal style: either simply bring him indoors when it happens, or else precede the trip indoors by saying "HEY! NO CHASING BIRDS", this may help you forestall obsessive-compulsive behaviors that might otherwise prove very annoying in the long term, not to mention very difficult to break him of.

 

Border collies can become obsessive about things within a nanosecond. Vigilance is invaluable. Things that may initially seem "cute" often turn out to be very detrimental.

 

Good luck!!! And post photos!

 

 

Becoming obsessed with the bird chasing is something I am concerned about, it's a bummer as we have a good sized garden which is ideal him to run around in and for me to play and train with him as well, but after doing things with me for a couple of mins all he wants do is chase them about and bark at them.

[Andy Brown]

As others have said, he is only a youngster, so it will take some time, practice, patience and work, but it will happen, if you are diligent and consistent. Generally speaking (I've fostered a few dogs), it can take anywhere from 1 week to a few months for a dog to settle into his new home. This can be a very trying time on many different levels depending on the dog. Your boy sounds very familiar to the one I just adopted. OMG, the first week or two was terrible! He wouldn't crate at my house but he spent 3 months in his foster home on strict crate rest due to an injury, so I knew he was crate trained. He was a maniac most of the time, getting into trouble, wouldn't settle, mouthing and pawing to get attention etc. But with some persistence on our part and a good doggy day care/training facility we pushed through it. So you can too! He was over-stimulated and a little low in confidence and this is why he was acting out. His whole world had be turned upside down and he had no idea what to do about it.

 

With the mouthing/pawing/jumping up on us all I did was ensure that every-time he did so, I turned my back and completely ignored him, no talking, no touching, no eye contact. Sometimes this meant I turned in a couple complete circles, but withdrawing all attention from him was what had to happen. Once he stopped, I would reward him with either a pat/treat/praise. If he started whatever he was doing again, I would repeat. When a dog is seeking attention, even negative attention is rewarding to them. Negative attention meaning, you pushing them off you or off the couch, looking at him etc.

 

A long line would be a great investment. As would some kongs that you can fill with kibble, yoghurt, broth, peanut butter etc. and even freeze for an extra hard work out. There are also a lot of other interactive food dispensing toys out there that are wonderful.

 

Great reply, I am trying the turn around and ignore approach, which does work sometimes, although not much use when your sitting watching tv and he is trying to get on the sofa with me, I try to push him off and tell him no but that just winds him up and the biting starts, the only I can get anywhere is to remove him to the kitchen !

[ziggzmom]

a long line will be my next purchase I think !!!

 

Hi Andy,

 

You can always make a long line out of clothes line rope or for something sturdier you could use mountain climbing rope. The mountain climbing line comes in different diameters and isn't that expensive. Just add a clip from an old leash or buy one at your local home supply store and you're good to go!

 

Regards~

 

Janet

[Alchemist]

Great reply, I am trying the turn around and ignore approach, which does work sometimes, although not much use when your sitting watching tv and he is trying to get on the sofa with me, I try to push him off and tell him no but that just winds him up and the biting starts, the only I can get anywhere is to remove him to the kitchen !

 

"Removal" is another very effective training technique, especially for situations where he's getting wound up. When our dog was a puppy he was starting to chase the cat. I locked him in our bathroom for 20 seconds at a time each time this happened. It forced him to calm down, and it was a deterrent in that he was removed both from the immediate attractant (the cat) and the "pack" (the humans). It didn't take him long at all to decide it wasn't worth it.

 

We got a lot of good suggestions from a basic obedience class. Choose your classes carefully, though, to find one that suits your personality/style. See if they'll let you "audit" a class. Our local PetSmart offered a free seminar with their obedience instructor. We really liked him, and his approach, and signed on for a class with him. We've subsequently enrolled our pup in four other obedience classes (moving on to more complex commands), and this first instructor was still our favorite.

 

I'm also a big fan of Victoria Stilwell's "It's Me or the Dog" series on Animal Planet. A lot of the problems you're describing are the sorts of things she regularly encounters on her show, and the recommendations others have made are the sort of things she implements.

 

And if your dog tries any of these students while you're watching TV - though our household watches very little TV, we couldn't survive without our DVR!

[PSmitty]

Great reply, I am trying the turn around and ignore approach, which does work sometimes, although not much use when your sitting watching tv and he is trying to get on the sofa with me, I try to push him off and tell him no but that just winds him up and the biting starts, the only I can get anywhere is to remove him to the kitchen !

 

He needs to understand and learn an "off" command. Have treats handy and when he puts his paws (or whole self) up on the sofa, lure him off with the treat and say "off". When all four feet are on the ground, give him the treat and say "good off!". You may have to do this a lot in the beginning, but eventually you won't have to lure him off, he'll understand the action, and then you reward him. Once he understands the command, you won't have to give him a treat every time.

 

A big point: if you can anticipate him getting ready to put paws up there, the very best thing you can do is stop him before he does it. Make a point to watch him and as he's headed up, say "Eh-eh!" or "no" or whatever word you use as a correction. But it's very important to try to stop him while it's still just a thought in his head. If you don't get the timing right, then you go on and use "off" as I talked about above.

 

Finally, if you have to physically remove him while teaching the "off", I'd have a short leash or a tab on him, so that you aren't using your hands on him. That way he can't grab at your hands and mouth you. I think when you push him, he thinks it's a fun game. So, you're just going to calmly and quietly take the leash or tab and guide him down, while telling him "off".

 

And giving him some down time in the crate to learn to settle is a very good thing, I think you've gotten good solid advice from everyone who posted earlier. Good luck, he'll be so worth it in the end!

[Andy Brown]

There are long lines on ebay that are 50ft and only about £10 so may get one of those to try.

 

I will try the treats aproach with the sofa problem, he certainly does look at my attempts to remove him as a game at this time and mouths terribly !!!

[urge to herd]

Andy,

 

Thanks so much for taking this boy in - sounds like he found a great home. 9 months or there abouts is adolescence for many dogs, and a lot of dogs are given up to shelters/rescues at this point in their lives. Just like human teenagers, they are going through a lot of changes and the brains fly out the ears, only to return when the hormonal changes have settled down. So, all your hard work will be rewarded in time.

 

For right now, if he's turning away from activity with you and chasing birds, you need to stop this behavior immediately. Get that long line, keep it on him in the yard, and when he ignores you, give a gentle tug. If that breaks his focus on the birds and gets him to look at you, you can reel him in gently, and when he gets to you, he gets a good scratch, a food treat of some kind, a belly rub - anything that he likes a lot. You'll probably be repeating this a lot for a while.

 

If he won't even look at you when you tug, I'd gather him in to you using the line and then go inside with him - the lesson is he does not get to ignore you. Right now, I'd say you have to help him remember you exist with the use of the long line.

 

The more he gets to bark at/chase the birds, the harder it will be to re-wire his brain. This is an area where vigilance is crucial. The other posts have offered sound advice and a few options, but you've got to stop the bird chasing now.

 

Good luck, please post some pics if you can,

 

Ruth

[Andy Brown]

Have put some photos of him in the gallery, heres the link http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=28598

 

Cheers for the supportive words Ruth, definately think your right about the long line as he certainly is getting obsessive with the bird chasing, hopefully it will help !

 

We have just come back from a walk and I crated him while we ate and he was fine, problem is as soon as he is let out he comes over and attempts to get on the sofa with us as always and when we tried to get him off the mouthing starts again, this even occurs whenever we stroke him, he always starts to mouth us...so frustating

[PSmitty]

Great post on the bird chasing, Ruth!

 

Andy, the mouthing will get better with time. He's still young, and still very new to your home and situation. I bet he had very little interaction with his last family, or if he did, they obviously let him get away with the mouthing. Three weeks is nothing in the grand scheme of things, he will need lots more time. Our most recent foster, who we adopted, was a mouther in the beginning, too. With us being consistent and patient, and him growing up a bit, it's just about completely gone now. I do understand your frustration, though! He drove me crazy with a lot of things for a while.

[Andy Brown]

Im sure the mouthing will improve over time, as you say it's early days yet and it can be very frustrating when you are so looking forward to getting a dog and then find that there are lots of issues to correct, one thing at a time I guess !

[2 Devils]

I rescued a 1 yr old acd at the end of Feb. She sounds very much like Whiskey.

 

The mouthing, the jumping, being obnoxious, never settling unless crated, etc... has gotten better over the last couple months. She is a sponge when it comes to training anything new but it is much harder to break the bad habits.

 

Just be consistent which includes everyone in the house. My husband is not as consistent as I am so some behaviors get better, then worse, then better, then worse, etc... but overall has improved greatly. I am doing the NILIF (you can google it) with her but it is modified since thy hubby is bad about following through.

 

Anyways, Nali has learned to settle in the house when not crated. It took abut 6 weeks for her to learn that it is ok to just lie down and chill.

 

She is also learning that you must be invited onto the couch, you must sit before going through doorways, if you bark like an idiot because you know we are going outside you will be brought away from the door and made to sit where I was standing when you started, if you jump at the door you are forcibly removed and put in a down away from the door, if you ignore a command you will be made to listen, etc... We still have a long ways to go but she is learning new things all the time and the bad habits are getting better.

 

I would put Whiskey on a long line outside so you can get his attention when distracted by birds or whatever. It would really help to take an obedience class.

 

Patience is key.

[Andy Brown]

I rescued a 1 yr old acd at the end of Feb. She sounds very much like Whiskey.

 

The mouthing, the jumping, being obnoxious, never settling unless crated, etc... has gotten better over the last couple months. She is a sponge when it comes to training anything new but it is much harder to break the bad habits.

 

Just be consistent which includes everyone in the house. My husband is not as consistent as I am so some behaviors get better, then worse, then better, then worse, etc... but overall has improved greatly. I am doing the NILIF (you can google it) with her but it is modified since thy hubby is bad about following through.

 

Anyways, Nali has learned to settle in the house when not crated. It took abut 6 weeks for her to learn that it is ok to just lie down and chill.

 

She is also learning that you must be invited onto the couch, you must sit before going through doorways, if you bark like an idiot because you know we are going outside you will be brought away from the door and made to sit where I was standing when you started, if you jump at the door you are forcibly removed and put in a down away from the door, if you ignore a command you will be made to listen, etc... We still have a long ways to go but she is learning new things all the time and the bad habits are getting better.

 

I would put Whiskey on a long line outside so you can get his attention when distracted by birds or whatever. It would really help to take an obedience class.

 

Patience is key.

 

 

Does indeed sound very much like Whiskey, he is beginning to show the signs of settling a little more in the evenings, he goes straight in the crate if he starts to mouth and I give him something to chew in their and he calms down after that.

I am doing the nilif routine with him now, just need to get my wife to follow suit with consistency, the bird chasing and recall isn't improving to much but I'm going to get him enrolled in obedience classes in the next week, thanks for the support

[burdock]

I have used the NILIF and works great but like you say every one in the house has to be on the same page and it looks like every one has the same issues mine is birds and chipmunks , plus bees etc. I stay on track and every day things get better. BC are so smart and the more I talk to Emma the more she understand like the names of her toys tell her to get the say Big Frisbee and she gets the big Frisbee or the gravy train, she knows just about the name of every toy. I remember jumping up was a big problem now it is a thing of the past , you just have to keep up with the training and before you realize it the issue is solved.