LGD and new lambs?

[dot me not]

I'm not sure where to post this but thought I'd try here.

 

My Pyr that lives with my sheep is 15 months old. He's VERY good with the sheep (has only lived with adult sized sheep) but of course is still a pup and likes to play a bit too. (100 pound dog playing with 4 pound lambs scares me!) When the ewes get tired of him they just haul off and butt him in the head and then he knows play time is over. I would hope they'd do the same if he was trying to play with the babies. But I don't know that for sure.

 

How do you folks integrate the new lambs with the LGD that hasn't actually lived with lambs before? Should I keep them seperate for a while?

 

As always, Thanks for any help.

Lydia

[Bill Fosher]

Hi Lydia,

 

I would. I had a guard dog puppy (about six months at lambing time last year) develop the bad habit of eating newborn lambs. He spent the rest of lambing tied up. Later on, if one of the lambs wasn't doing well, he would pick on it. He actually killed one -- I don't think intentionally, but the effect was the same.

 

The advice that I've gotten from a shepherd who has worked with a lot of these dogs is to take the dog when it's old enough and mature (two years plus) and pen it with a very protective ewe and new lambs and let the ewe teach it that baby lambs are not to be played with. Keeping a drag on a guard dog when lambs are around is probably a good idea, no matter the age of the lambs and dog in question.

[Pam Wolf]

I've been lucky and even though my main pyr is still young and playful, she has shown little interest in the newborns. I have had a problem whth her chewing ears, but I noticed if she started obscessing with ears--starts with licking then progresses, I'd better seperate that sheep and look for it getting sick--gets sick every time. So I now use the Pyr as an early warning system for sick sheep.

 

Other folks I know have used the drag with success, and others have had to tie the dog during lambing. Much depends on the individual dog.

 

Pam

[ikw]

Lydia,

 

I didn't work with a lots of LSGD's but the advice I got was,until the first years of these dogs,they are supervised and interfered 24/7. If you can't,they are put away.

During lambing with my Akbash (on pasture),I put a chain on her and tied it to myself,keeping chain long enough for her to get away just in case the ewe may take it the wrong way.

If she moved close enough to sniff a lamb,she got a "NO" from me and a nasty look from the mama. I sat through 160 ewes lambing with her,halfway through,she was most interested in dangers lurking about. Once she lost interest,I unclipped the chain. She started to go out of the band of sheep and patrol madly. Her approaches back to the ewes with lambs were with tail dropped,shoulders sagged, head down without eye contact and very,very slow. When a ewe charged her,she dropped on her back and exposed belly. I thought she was becoming trustworthy and I gave her a couple of orphans when I wasn't able to sit with her,that was a mistake. She tried to mount the lambs and got a shake of her life from me.

Second year,she was completely trustworthy and an experienced lamber,to this date,I know her different bark for a "lambs are coming" and she'll rush to warn off the invisible snapping turtles in the pond to stay clear of their lambs.

So,basically,unless your dog is supervised and corrected by you,never leave her on her own. You could chain her away where she cannot watch and get frustrated either. Put her away with rams,at 15,they should learn their boundaries and rams are more than happy to display that.

[dot me not]

When I went out and found the dead twin lamb born 2 days before my Pyr had not bothered the body at all. In fact he's part of the reason I found the lamb in the first place. He sat beside the body and whined at me as though he knew something bad was wrong. So my concern is not that he'd intentionally kill one, but as Bill said, the result is the same even if he just "loves" one to death. I guess a tiny lamb looks somewhat like a battery operated squeaky toy to a dog that size.

 

OK, so for now I will definitely keep them separated and let the lambs get some size. When he goes back with them how exactly do I do a drag? Is it just a line on him or a line with some weight at the end to slow him down?

 

This dog hasn't given me any reason at all to be suspicious of him but I'd much rather err on the side of caution until he's out of his puppy phase.

Lydia

[sea4th]

I've read that as long as the body remains intact, i.e., they will still do their job as LGD's, as in the guarding behavior you witnessed. If that body is cut open somehow, they will then eat the remains.

 

Vicki

[brookcove]

My young pups get started with a group of mamas and young lambs. Pup gets beat up a bit but learns his manners quickly.

 

Next lambing the young whippersnapper wears a chain tied to a bit of two-by-four, the first time I see any what I call "mothering" damage - the licking that turns into scalp or ear chewing. The chain and weight dangles between his knees. I call it a knee knocker. The lambs also get tarry stuff on their ears and scalp to discourage the licking.

 

I trained one last year who didn't need any of this and neutered and sold him, darn it. This year however we bred his full sister who seem to be just like him, to my knee-knocker-wearing male. wish you could tell at eight weeks what they're going to be like during lambing!

 

I've always said, however, that the good ones are the ones that do this - it shows interest in the flock though a little skewed as a youngster's view of the world would be. Just like a BC, "bad" behavior is there for us to shape into "good" behavior.

[Jordi44]

I never had trouble with my Pyr bothering lambs - when he was about 5 months old, he walked into the barn not realising he was in with a ewe & new lamb. She nearly knocked him through the barn wall. He never bothered lambs, but isn't the keenest on staying with the sheep in general - comes and goes as suits him.

 

He was bad about mauling half-grown chickens, though. I've heard that Pyrs go through a stage between 1 and 2 years of age in which fluttering poultry is a big temptation. Finally got mad at him and tied a dead one around his neck for the day - did the trick - he's never touched a bird since.