Pairing with a border collie

[Leeworthy]

Hey everyone, we have had Phoenix (our red and white) BC for 3 years now. He is a wonderful dog, but we would like to get a second dog so he has a friend to play with to keep him occupied and so he can have fun when we are working. We go walking, running, rollerblading, play fetch, and frisbee 7 days a week. He gets around 3-4 hours of exercise a day. My wife would like a smaller dog, as she likes lap dogs and small dogs.

 

I was wondering what breed of small dog would be best suited to keep up with a Border Collie, and are known to get a long well. We would be getting a female, as Phoenix is a male, and 2 male dogs just seem to be more aggressive towards each other (just what I have noticed from dealings).

 

Does anyone have any suggestions, wife is looking at Jack Russel's, Pug. Suggestions or more breed ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Dave, Kaleigh, and Phoenix!

[juliepoudrier]

Although I love pugs, I wouldn't recommend one. Thanks to the way they've been bred, with super squashed noses, many have breathing difficulties and would have difficulty keeping up with the activities you undertake with Phoenix (especially if you live in an area of high heat and humidity or where smog, etc. is a problem). <--This is a generalization. I know of at least one pug that was a great agility dog. But in general, they just can't breathe as easily as dogs with normal-length faces.

 

Active little lap dogs that aren't JRTs include papillons. They do require grooming, but I understand that they are very active and very much like border collies in a small-dog body. Laura on this forum has an antique papillon (15) that she adopted as a geriatric through rescue. He's slowed down now, but he's a riot and can hang with the border collies on a good day....

 

J.

[MaryP]

Another vote for a papillon. A friend that is in my agility club has a rescue papillon and I refer to him as her miniature border collie. He's stinkin' adorable with energy to rival any border collie.

[MicheleS.]

Count me as another vote for a papillon! I love those little dogs. They would be my first choice for a small breed if I needed to downsize.

[Shetlander]

Lots of little dogs can keep up with Border Collies but I agree with Julie that pugs in general aren't the best choice with their pushed in faces. Several small terriers have plenty of energy. Paps can be active little dogs. My neighbor's King Charles Spaniel is an energizer bunny and as sweet natured a dog as I've ever met. My first Lhasa was non-stop energy. The current one has very little endurance. As an aside, I do not recommend Lhasas since they are often dominant, possessive, pushy dogs. Quinn and my Lhasa actively dislike each other and only get along because I insist and enforce peaceable coexistance. They'd each be much happier if the other left my household.

 

That brings me to cautioning you that brining in a second dog may or may not work out as you envision. One thing I noticed with Quinn and my friends Border Collies was as they matured, they became less and less interested in playing with other dogs. They might like other dogs and play together occasionally but their main interest is being with people. The only pairing of dogs that worked out as you are hoping to happen in your home was my Shelties. They were separated by a year and did remain playful and devoted to each other for life. Otherwise, it has ranged from affection to indifference to dangerous rivalry. I can't leave Quinn and the Lhasa alone together because I'm honestly afraid Quinn would kill Chili. He's always held his punches, so to speak with very inhibited bites but the size difference is scary and if I wasn't there to break them up, I really think it could get ugly very fast. So I need to take precautions when I leave and be vigilant when I'm home. Not much fun.

 

Your dog is getting plenty of exercise. Way, way more than most dogs, even Border Collies. I'd think he'd be quite happy chilling out for the rest of the day without a companion. Not saying you shouldn't get a second dog but if you do, get him for yourselves not the dog. The two dogs may or may not become best buddies. Dogs spend lots of time sleeping and don't need companionship while they do that, especially when they have a full, very active life like Phoenix.

[ShoresDog]

Count me as another vote for a papillon!

Me three! I think their smarts and energy level would be a good border collie match.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I agree that a pug might not be the ideal candidate. A relative had one years ago and whenever the poor thing got over excited, it would pass out. I hated seeing that. I don't know about papallions, but there are a few people here who either have or have had them and seem to like them. JRTs on the other hand... jeeze, you're a stronger person than I am! My mom had one when I was a teenager. While she was a nice enough dog, she was very, very strong willed and independent. That is the only experience I've had with them, but I'm thinking they are a lot different to train than border collies. They are smart, but I don't think they are nearly as keen and eager to please as border collies. Even though they are small, they are a lot of dog... be prepared for that!

[KrisK]

I got a miniature schnauzer to pair with Jazz when he was 4 years old....they were great buddies and Zachary was able to keep up with him easily. Zach is on the big side of the minuatures but they are fiesty little dogs. Nothing against Papillons, I've met a good number of them that I like They truly are energetic little dogs but I'd get another minature schnauzer in a heartbeat

[ejano]

Why not another BC? She's not exactly pocketbook sized, but Ladybug makes a pretty good lap dog and you'll never find a better, more loyal companion. She's on the small size for a BC...petite, light boned...about 35 pounds until she reached middle aged...she's nine years old now...she's always loved to cuddle with "her man".... she was four years old when we picked her up from the SPCA the day after Christmas. DH sat with her in that chair for hours while she just shook and shook. Even five years later, every time something goes wrong in her life, she heads for that chair, whether he's there or not. . Now, she shares with Brodie. And sometimes Robin. He really needs a bigger chair.

 

[urge to herd]

Cavalier KC Spaniels are adorable, sweet natured dogs, but they've got a high incidence of heart disease. Oh, and then there's that thing where their skulls don't grow large enough for their brains.

 

Pugs - great personalities, but the shortened noses lead to a number of problems.

 

Papillions do need regular grooming, but I've only heard good things about their personalities.

 

Jack Russels? Go find Terrierman and look at his blog about the breed and its personality.

 

If I wanted a smaller dog, first I'd look for tiny BCs. They do come in all sizes. If a 22 lb or so bc wasn't available, I'd look at the middle size poodle. Grooming is required, but they've got great personalities, and in this size, they haven't been churned out by puppy mills.

 

A lady in the Nose Work class I just took with Shoshone has a pug/cocker/poodle mix. Looks a lot like a pug in her body, but her head and face is more normal looking. Lucy is adorable, very people oriented, and she totally took to the class and wowed everyone.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth

[rushdoggie]

I have 2 Papillons, and as much as I love Border Collies there will always be a Papillon in my life. As i has been pointed out, they can be energetic but like many other dogs they can be installed with an off switch and basically they are happy being couch potatoes too. We will go run in the woods, then come home and snooze. As far as toy dogs go they are pretty healhy.

 

 

My Paps always just want to be doing whatever I am doing. They do need grooming, but not as much as you would guess based on the way they look. My Paps get groomed on he same schedule as my rough coated Border Collie.

[geonni banner]

I'm in agreement with the Papillion and Pug sentiments expreessed so far, I've also known a number of nice Pomeranians. I'm also partial to Shi Tzus. I've met a lot of them that were bright, sweet and big fun. I like Border Terriers too. They seem a bit less "amped" than a lot of terriers, and coat care is minimal. I've known lots of high quality little mutts too, and the shelters are full of 'em.

[rushdoggie]

I'm in agreement with the Papillion and Pug sentiments expreessed so far, I've also known a number of nice Pomeranians. I'm also partial to Shi Tzus. I've met a lot of them that were bright, sweet and big fun. I like Border Terriers too. They seem a bit less "amped" than a lot of terriers, and coat care is minimal. I've known lots of high quality little mutts too, and the shelters are full of 'em.

 

I also agree with the shih tzu: I have never met a nasty one...they ones I know are bright and happy. And, though they need grooming with a short cut it can be minimized.

 

And most of these dogs can be found in rescue as well, both of my Paps were adopted from PCAR.

[rushdoggie]

Also, I TOTALLY disagree with the 2 males thing. In my experience, 2 girls are worse than 2 boys. I'd go for 2 neutered boys or a boy and a girl.

[njnovice]

Personally, I'm not a fan of keeping little dogs with big dogs, just because I'd be paranoid about a spat getting out of control and something happening to the little one.

 

That being said, in my experience, Cavaliers (although they have a lot of health issues) and Malteses are the most consistently friendly little dogs I've encountered.

[Olivia]

I've met nice little dogs of all breeds and not so nice little dogs in the same breeds. Since you are looking for something to keep up with you, your lifestyle, and your border collie I would look at adopting a young adult so you know what you are getting.

 

I got Lilo, a black and white, long haired chihuahua last fall and she is fabulous! She was about 18 months old and I call her a teacup border collie. She keeps up with them on 6 mile, off leash hikes with no problem. She plays bitey face with the younger border collie for hours and is not a shrinking violet in the least. She walks on a leash, has no desire to ride in a purse but does enjoy a lap cuddle. She love all people and dogs she meets and plays with no issues with much bigger dogs. I keep her safe by carefully monitoring the dogs she plays with but she is a pretty tough little girl. She is learning agility and obedience. Oh, and she doesn't yap!

 

I picked her because I wanted a small dog, like you, to keep up with 3 border collies and our lifestyle. Her petfinder bio made me think she was the one and when I brought her home on trial I knew it!

 

So I guess in short I would say worry less about breed and get the right dog for you!

 

Olivia

 

PS. When I went looking for a small dog I had my heart set on a papillion, and I hope to have one someday, but the chihuahua had the personality for me!

[2 Devils]

You would be better off looking at papillons, toy/mini poodles, king charles spaniels before thinking of pugs and jrts. Pugs won't be able to keep most times because of their breathing issues. The jrts unless you get one from good lines could end up too high drive and hard headed to make a good pet. Jrts need work. I love the breed and know a breeder of jrts and I love her jrts but I would never own a purebred jrt.

 

With paps you do have to be careful where you get one. Some of the shy/timid temperaments just like with shelties. You have to find a good breeder.

 

Smaller poodles well - you need to also be careful as they can also have temperament issues.

 

Overall you really just need to narrow down your list of breeds and then do the research on the lines for specific health and temperament issues. No breed or line is perfect.

 

Also in the toy breeds you have to watch for luxating patellas as it is very common.

[ejano]

I have 2 Papillons, and as much as I love Border Collies there will always be a Papillon in my life. As i has been pointed out, they can be energetic but like many other dogs they can be installed with an off switch and basically they are happy being couch potatoes too. We will go run in the woods, then come home and snooze. As far as toy dogs go they are pretty healhy.

 

 

My Paps always just want to be doing whatever I am doing. They do need grooming, but not as much as you would guess based on the way they look. My Paps get groomed on he same schedule as my rough coated Border Collie.

 

Way too cute... my cousin has one and Gracie and Robin get along just fine. Ladybug thinks she's a squeaky toy and Brodie isn't sure what the heck she is...which does lead to a concern -- how will the BC react to both the breed in general to to the specific dog?

[rushdoggie]

Way too cute... my cousin has one and Gracie and Robin get along just fine. Ladybug thinks she's a squeaky toy and Brodie isn't sure what the heck she is...which does lead to a concern -- how will the BC react to both the breed in general to to the specific dog?

 

I think a lot depends on the dogs...if they know small dogs who act like dogs there's usually not an issue. The worry is when the small dog acts like prey, and the owners hold it up in the air, etc. My Papillons have lived with several Border Collies, a Golden Retriever, a Siberian and a Dal and everyone got along fine. I think its partly because the little dogs act very dog like: running, barking, acting confident.

 

Another good reason to consider an adult dog is that you can get a feel for how the little dogs react towards big dogs before you adopt.

 

And, to answer someone else's concern re: size disparity, this is how I manage it:

 

I am the house mother, what I say goes for everyone. All dogs wait for food, treats and toys given by me when I say their name. You don't take it if I don't give it. Any chewies etc I always have 1 more than there are dogs.

 

Finally, when I am not home I separate them. Its a promise I made to the lady who gave me Harley, and its easy enough to do: the Paps get my office, Ross gets the rest of the house (occasionally I leave Ross outside if its a nice day - he can get into the garage if he wants inside).

[SecretBC]

I would LOVE to have a Papillon one day. They are awesome little dogs.

 

One of the reasons I got Secret (my Border Collie), was because I needed a dog that would match the energy level of Kaiser, my Alaskan Klee Kai.

 

 

They are fun, smart little dogs. Secret is over double his weight (he's 16 lbs, 14" high), but he holds his own and they have a blast together.

[rushdoggie]

I would LOVE to have a Papillon one day. They are awesome little dogs.

 

One of the reasons I got Secret (my Border Collie), was because I needed a dog that would match the energy level of Kaiser, my Alaskan Klee Kai.

 

 

They are fun, smart little dogs. Secret is over double his weight (he's 16 lbs, 14" high), but he holds his own and they have a blast together.

 

 

DOG ENVY!

 

so so cute...I love huskies, I had a wonderful red and white Siberian for many years...she was the wiley-est dogs I ever knew. I chose to stay away from Sibes after I lost her because of both the hair and running away issues.

[SecretBC]

Many Klee Kai owners are previous Husky/Sibe/Malamute owners -- Who have chosen to downsize for various reasons.

 

Alas, the the AKK do still have plenty of hair to deal with when they blow coat (where does it all come from?!) and the definitely need to be worked with on the running issue. I'd say 99% of AKK are never trustworthy off leash. Kaiser gets to be off leash for agility because he's focused & has a job, but otherwise, he's almost always on leash when not in a fenced in area. And yes, it's a pain in the butt... But I love him anyway.

[BustopherJones]

Why not take Phoenix to your local animal shelter or Humane Society, and let HIM choose his companion? That way, he gets a friend that he likes, and you get to rescue a dog that desperately needs a home and wind up feeling good about yourself and your choice.

 

Just a thought...

[tegansmom23]

i am a groomer and deal with a lot of dogs. from my experiance i would go with a jrt, papillion, mini aussie, possibly a schnauzer but they mat up and need to be groomer every 4 to 6 weeks and never shut up but nice dogs, rat terrier, westie or scottie. as long as the males are neutered they will get along great. good luck.

[Harlow]

Jack Russell! They are very active and Chester here keeps up with Harlow and pretty much has more energy than she does.