BARF, Prey Model, OR Kibble...oh my!

[daisyandme]

I have been trying to decide what to do about Daisy's diet and I feel the more information I have, the harder it becomes to decide. I am getting very confused!

 

I have decided that I would like to get away from kibble as much as I can. I purchased the book: Dr. Khalsa's Natural dog as a suggestion from the board and I have also looked at www.dogaware.com.

 

I have been skimming through Natural dog and the author suggests staying away from diets high in animal protein because of the link to cancer and may other diseases. A quote from her book: "Years of study have brought me to conclude that a diet consisting solely of raw meat is far from ideal. The China study, as mentioned in chapter 2, provided evidence that a high dietary percentage of animal and dietary protein points toward increased cancer incidence. It is well documented that an acidic cellular environment (of which one of the causes is high levels of animal protein) is more prone to disease and cancer than is an alkaline one. Carbohydrates are needed for the brain, thyroid, and liver to function optimally. Vegetables are a live food source, providing enzymes and phytonutrients that prevent cancer and other diseases."

 

Another quote: "Although I do not disagree with using raw meat and poultry as part of a complete diet for dogs, I am heartily opposed to a diet composed predominantly of raw meat and bones. This type of diet is high in acid-forming foods and thus has the potential to predispose a dog to disease and stress on all of the organs. Of course it has been established that most dogs do much better on any kind of home made diet, as this replaces the poor-quality commercial grade dog food. That's fairly easy to understand after reading the previous chapter. But a dog's diet must contain a balance of foods to promote health. This should include grains, greens and other vegetables."

 

She believes a balanced ph are the link to good health in humans and dogs.

 

In some ways this makes sense especially for humans. I remember about a year ago I read a study published in the newspaper suggested that it was not necessarily the meat that causes the cancer, it is the fact the meat is cooked and creates carcinogens. I know other studies have also suggested that a diet high in red meats also cause disease. My problem is that I don't know if this translates to dogs. What I mean is, I thought dogs cannot digest fruits and vegetables as they are not able to break down the cellular walls.

 

What I am leaning toward doing is feeding the meat and fruits and vegetables uncooked. But to be perfectly honest, I am quite lost and am becoming increasingly paralyzed. If anyone has experience and knowledge with nutrition I would be so appreciative to get some opinions and hopefully some clarity.

[Chesney's Girl]

I have been feeding my boys raw (prey model) since they were puppies. I couldn't be happier with my choice. There is lots of information from other raw feeders on the boards here.

 

I think high levels of cooked protein could cause problems in some dogs down the road. The yahoo group rawfeeding is good for first hand experienced raw feeders. If you are set on avoid kibble then I personally feel that raw is the way to go. BARF tends to recommend veggies because the diet calls for too much bone and can cause constipation, so the veggies help to keep things moving. In my opinion, raw and BARF are different. I see raw as more of a prey based model and BARF as too many supplements and bone added to balance a diet out instead of just letting the properly picked food do the balancing.

 

Dogs do not digest fruits and veggies very well and what goes in usually comes out looking similar but I give my boys veggies every now and then since they seem to like them. It's possible they do pull some nutrients from them, but they are not digested unless they are turned to mush.

 

Best of luck.

[RoseAmy]

There are as many diets as there are breeds of dogs and of course each one claims to be the only way to feed a dog. And each on trouts sucesses and points failures of others. So no wonder you are confused.

 

I feed whole prey...have for over 3yrs now. The suggestion to check out the raw yahoo group is a good one.

 

My reasons for whole prey---I feel it is the way nature has intended dogs to eats..like the last post I don't feel that veggies and fruits are degested very well by dogs. Dogs aren't humans and weren't make to eat like humans.

 

It can be very overwhelming to think about feeding raw..but once you take the plunge it really is very easy.

[nancy in AZ]

This brings up a question re raw bones. I've had pork shoulder bones in the freezer for about 9 months. The dogs have already eaten most of the meat off them and I was saving the bones for them for later. Does anyone know, if it is safe to give them as rec bones, or will they have been too dried out and more likely to splinter at this point?

[kristinavb]

I feed my Huskies raw (prey model) and have never been happier.. and neither have they! I was in the same situation... very nervous and scared about starting this. The more i read and researched... the more nervous i became. Until, one day there was a sale on Chicken leg Quarters. I thought it was a sign and bought 10lbs. I just went with it. Bought some boneless skinless breasts and went home. The dogs were thrilled.

 

There's a yahoo feeding group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

 

That got me through a lot of the first week jitters. But it got easier and easier. Now i don't even think twice about it. I buy enough for the week. Weigh out how much they'll need of Raw Meaty Bones, Meaty Meat, and Organ meat. And then just eyeball it into 7 Tupperware. Stick 4 in the freezer and 3 in the fridge.

[daisyandme]

I feed my Huskies raw (prey model) and have never been happier.. and neither have they! I was in the same situation... very nervous and scared about starting this. The more i read and researched... the more nervous i became. Until, one day there was a sale on Chicken leg Quarters. I thought it was a sign and bought 10lbs. I just went with it. Bought some boneless skinless breasts and went home. The dogs were thrilled.

 

There's a yahoo feeding group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

 

That got me through a lot of the first week jitters. But it got easier and easier. Now i don't even think twice about it. I buy enough for the week. Weigh out how much they'll need of Raw Meaty Bones, Meaty Meat, and Organ meat. And then just eyeball it into 7 Tupperware. Stick 4 in the freezer and 3 in the fridge.

 

Thanks. I just joined the group. Hopefully that will help me. Did you start with the boneless skinless breast and chicken leg quarters first for awhile? I have read so far that it is best to start on chicken, specifically chicken leg quarters or necks and to wait on organs. I went to my local grocery store the other day to investigate and was told they don't sell the quarters so I will probably have to purchase the whole chicken. Or are there any other parts that I can start her on? They have thighs and drumsticks....

[Brad]

I'd say any part of the chicken is fine. It just seems easier to start with, as the stomach enzymes are at full strength for a week or so. After my first week of chicken, I started feeding richer meats and never had an issue. The first day or 2, I got a bit of regurgitated chicken bones at 3am, but that stopped after a couple of days. After kibble, they're just not up to digesting full bones. But it doesn't take long.

[daisyandme]

I'd say any part of the chicken is fine. It just seems easier to start with, as the stomach enzymes are at full strength for a week or so. After my first week of chicken, I started feeding richer meats and never had an issue. The first day or 2, I got a bit of regurgitated chicken bones at 3am, but that stopped after a couple of days. After kibble, they're just not up to digesting full bones. But it doesn't take long.

 

When did you start with the organ? From what I have been able to understand so far, it is not important to get the diet balanced right away as it will balance over time. But rather to introduce things slow so that if a certain food does not agree with the dog it is easier to pin point.

 

LOL I am so nervous!!!!!! I think I am just afraid she wont get what she needs and I am going to screw up her development!

[Brad]

I started meals of beef heart, liver and kidney the second or third week. I also feed whole fish (salmon or mackerel, freeze salmon for 24 hours firstto detroy possible worms) and the occaisional game meat as I come across it. Sardines are also cheap, so they get that a fair bit as well.

I buy a couple of butcher blocks of meat parts to supplement (it has, um, parts in it:)) but they love it. Lamb neck is pretty good too, and gives them a little bone to play with, but it's more of a treat.

Ifeed no veggies at all, my belief is that they cannot digest it. My GF feeds them a bit of carrot when I'm not looking, but it comes out the same way it goes in. Tripe is another item, although it's hard to find locally.

I too was nervous starting out, but it just became easier as I got used to it, and now I've got a routine down and have stopped worrying.

 

As you stated, balanced diets don't need to be each meal, but over time. Selectional is also seasonal, so some parts of the year have them eating more fish than other times.

[kristinavb]

I went "fast" according to some people, but my dogs could handle the food. I started out with Chicken leg quarters (skin on) and boneless skinless chicken breasts. I fed 2.5% ideal body weight at first and adjusted from there. First week i stuck with Chicken. Then, i think i went to Pork Shoulder for my meat without bone. And the next week brought home some ground beef. I added organ in about 3 weeks into it i think. Word of advice: some dogs HATE the smell, taste, and/or look of organ meat. Cheyenne refused to even touch her meals if the organ meat was in there. I now keep my organ meat totally separate and pretty much have to stick it down her throat.

 

My male Sibe, eats it like it's a million dollar prize

 

Also, don't add more than 1 meat source at a time. If you add pork and lets say organ one week.. and then they have the runs or some reaction... which one was it? Take it week by week and monitor how they do.

 

At first I wrote everything down with exact weights and measured out the meals each day. Now i just weigh out how much they need for the week and divide it into 7 containers. It's a HECK of a lot easier.

[RoseAmy]

I went "fast" according to some people, but my dogs could handle the food. I started out with Chicken leg quarters (skin on) and boneless skinless chicken breasts. I fed 2.5% ideal body weight at first and adjusted from there. First week i stuck with Chicken. Then, i think i went to Pork Shoulder for my meat without bone. And the next week brought home some ground beef. I added organ in about 3 weeks into it i think. Word of advice: some dogs HATE the smell, taste, and/or look of organ meat. Cheyenne refused to even touch her meals if the organ meat was in there. I now keep my organ meat totally separate and pretty much have to stick it down her throat.

 

My male Sibe, eats it like it's a million dollar prize

 

Also, don't add more than 1 meat source at a time. If you add pork and lets say organ one week.. and then they have the runs or some reaction... which one was it? Take it week by week and monitor how they do.

 

At first I wrote everything down with exact weights and measured out the meals each day. Now i just weigh out how much they need for the week and divide it into 7 containers. It's a HECK of a lot easier.

 

 

You want to know quick? I too started with leg quarters. On day 4 I gave then beef heart, day 5 kidney. At the end of 2 weeks they were eating anything and everything I could find.

 

Remember all dogs are different and I have the advantage with my dogs living on a farm, they were already eating all sorts of yucking things, so their digestive systems were use to stuff.

 

The first 2 weeks I too weighed and measured and bagged..Made menus for the week. Boy was that alot of work. Then I got real. Example I get 60lb cases of beef hearts, I will bag each on (about 5lbs) in a plastic shopping bag. Throw it in the freezer. When I want to feed it I just take it out chop a hunk off for each dog and feed. I know longer weigh or measure. Just eyeball up how big of a piece looks "right" Honestly have no idea how many lbs each dog eats.

 

Trust me it seems overwhelming at first but it gets easier and easier.