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Is my pup a border collie


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Looks like a Border Collie to me to. On the other hand...

 

…so I went out to Venice Beach. While on the beach I saw a Saluki. This was back in the days when there were fewer registered Salukis in the US than there are at this show today, and I thought I was familiar with nearly all of them. I looked at this Saluki and saw, for sure, that it was not of any breeding I knew. It was a beautiful glossy dark red with a lot of feathering and a strange looking head with much more stop than I'd seen before. I followed it around for half an hour looking for the person to whom it was attached. Finally, I found the person and asked, ‘What is the breeding of your dog?' He replied, ‘The father is an Afghan and the mother is an Irish Setter.' If he had wanted to get an ILP on that dog as a Saluki, he could have.

from The functional Saluki - lessons from the coursing field By Dan Belkin, Ph.D.

 

I'd say Border Collie, but what will the sheep say? And what will the dog say to the sheep? It's a mighty cute pup, one way or the other... :rolleyes:

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I'd say Border Collie, but what will the sheep say? And what will the dog say to the sheep? It's a mighty cute pup, one way or the other... :rolleyes:

 

 

Not to completely derail this thread, but this is a common theme that comes up here and I was just hoping for a little clarification. So, the general philosophy of these boards is that border collies should be bred only for their ability to work stock. The corollary seems to be that you can only tell a real bc by its ability to work stock. So, what happens when a dog from successful working lines is a complete dud on stock? Obviously it shouldn't be bred, but does it then cease to be a border collie?

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Not to completely derail this thread, but this is a common theme that comes up here and I was just hoping for a little clarification. So, the general philosophy of these boards is that border collies should be bred only for their ability to work stock. The corollary seems to be that you can only tell a real bc by its ability to work stock. So, what happens when a dog from successful working lines is a complete dud on stock? Obviously it shouldn't be bred, but does it then cease to be a border collie?

 

Nah, I'm jes sayin... you know...

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Not to completely derail this thread, but this is a common theme that comes up here and I was just hoping for a little clarification. So, the general philosophy of these boards is that border collies should be bred only for their ability to work stock. The corollary seems to be that you can only tell a real bc by its ability to work stock. So, what happens when a dog from successful working lines is a complete dud on stock? Obviously it shouldn't be bred, but does it then cease to be a border collie?

Well we can't very well say that the only way to tell a border collie is by how it looks, now can we? That would be pretty indefensible if at the same time we rail against the AKC for defining the breed solely by its looks. I think if a dog has a pedigree that says it's a border collie, then it's a border collie whether it works or not. Obviously it's preferable to breed only for working ability, but as you note, not all make the grade, but if their parentage says they're a border collie, then I for one would not dispute it. I might say the dog is a "poor excuse for a border collie/working dog," but a border collie all the same.

 

The problem with these sorts of threads ("Is my dog a border collie?") is that if you don't have some sort of proof of breeding, no one can say anything more definitive than something along the lines of "Well, it looks like one." But as Geonni noted, looks can't necessarily be the definitive answer. In the same vein as her Saluki example, I once saw a labradoodle that I would have sworn was a young Irish wolfhound.

 

So what else can we say? Usually I say if it's a rescue and it looks like a border collie and you want to call it a border collie, who is to dispute you? If it's a rescue and it looks a little like a border collie but works stock like a border collie, then by all means call it a border collie. To me, adding the stock working piece in is just one more bit of evidence that the dog *might* be a border collie or a mix thereof. It's not a sole defining characteristic and I'm sure there are non-border collie mixes out there that look like border collies and work something like border collies, but if that's the case, then I have no problem with someone calling it a border collie. (All of this is predicated on the dog not being bred unless it is ROMed. The clear defining factor for me is if it is of unknown parentage and hasn't been proven on stock then although you can call it what you want, you shouldn't be breeding it as anything.) The fact is that the breed is quite diverse when it comes to looks, and the downside to that is that you can't just look at a dog and say "Yes, that is most definitely a border collie." Well, you can say it, but there's no real way to prove it (the closest thing to doing that being ROM.) Unless it's of the cookie cutter type perhaps. But I've also seen smooth-coated bully breed dogs that could pass for border collies.

 

So I take the approach that there's no harm in calling any dog a border collie that looks like it could be a border collie, and especially if the dog shows some working ability. I don't think such dogs should be bred, obviously, but beyond that, who really cares?

 

In the case of the OP, I'll say it again. If the breeder were a reputable one, there'd be no reason to doubt the breed of the pup in the first place. And if the dog is a rescue or whatever, and you think it looks like a border collie, then call it one. It's not like a bolt of lightning will come out of the sky and smite a person who calls their dog a border collie when it's really not.

 

J.

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Hmmm...tri colored, prick ears, and a smoothie! Woohoo! The best way to tell is to see how she moves...

A

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Guest echoica
It's not like a bolt of lightning will come out of the sky and smite a person who calls their dog a border collie when it's really not.

 

That made me lol :rolleyes::D

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