Pet Names

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

If one intends to do stockwork it is well to avoid names that sound very much like commands. If you often say "Back" forinstance, it's probably unwise to name your dog "Mack" or "Zack."

 

Donald McCaig

[JohnLloydJones]

If one intends to do stockwork it is well to avoid names that sound very much like commands. If you often say "Back" forinstance, it's probably unwise to name your dog "Mack" or "Zack."

Good point, but do we know what names (sounds) dogs might confuse? Remember, we humans have a very sophisticated language processing ability and dogs have had to develop the ability to distinguish the strange grunts we make as best they can. Is there anything out there -- research or anecdotal -- that has studied what sounds dogs have problems discriminating? For example, I note that my dogs are able to discriminate readily between the same word spoken with different tone.

[juliepoudrier]

I had a dog here for a while named Swift. She and my Twist constantly confused their names--call one, get both. But neither were confused if I called for Pip. Similarly Willow and Jill don't get confused either. I do try to come up with names that aren't like the names of other dogs in my pack though (Jill came with her name when I already had Willow).

 

J.

[JohnLloydJones]

oops double post

[Root Beer]

If one intends to do stockwork it is well to avoid names that sound very much like commands. If you often say "Back" forinstance, it's probably unwise to name your dog "Mack" or "Zack."

 

I'd say this holds true for those of us who seriously pursue other disciplines, as well.

 

For instance, with the importance of "stay" in all of the disciplines for which I train seriously, I would avoid names like "Kay" or "Jay". Yes, I could use a different word for "stay", but that would probably be much more trouble than just avoiding names that sound like "stay" in the first place.

[ejano]

Good point, but do we know what names (sounds) dogs might confuse? Remember, we humans have a very sophisticated language processing ability and dogs have had to develop the ability to distinguish the strange grunts we make as best they can. Is there anything out there -- research or anecdotal -- that has studied what sounds dogs have problems discriminating? For example, I note that my dogs are able to discriminate readily between the same word spoken with different tone.

 

They seem to learn a great many sounds and the nuances very quickly, depending on how carefully one enunciates and the relative importance of the command to them. Mine seem to learn language faster when playing a game than when doing serious training, though with just a few days practice they picked up "front" (an obedience rally command). As you say, the same word spoken in a different tone, has different meanings. Robin knows when I say his name in a certain way, he's in big trouble.

 

I've not approached it in any scientific way yet, but one of my ideas with these pups was to see just how much language they could learn after reading about a Border Collie in Germany who knew the names of about 250 various toys.

 

I'm also interested in how quickly they pick up on different tricks and commands. We've been working for a few days on picking up toys. Ladybug already knew this and scurries around, muttering like any mother would. I say, "Go Look" and she goes down the line from her most favorite to her least favorite toys, putting them in the crate. Robin caught on pretty quickly. Brodie doesn't fetch yet, but he participates by pushing toys I balance on the edge of the crate into the crate as well as going to stand by various toys the others have missed.

 

But in the past two days, I've tried a different game. We now have three 6" solid rubber jolly balls. After Robin's episode last week, all the ropes are removed, but they can still carry them around because they are soft enough to pick up.

 

The game is to each go after a particular ball, then bring that ball back to me and put it in the crate. They knew all of the words separately, but I've been chaining them together for this game. The commands I use are "Ball" and "Go look", meaning go find your ball. Then, I show them my empty hands, which means "Bring it here" and then say "Basket" , which means they should put it in the basket.

 

Ladybug caught onto the game the fastest, naturally. She now doesn't even wait for the command but trots after her ball, brings it back and sit and wait for the other two to figure it out. It took Robin two days to figure out there were three balls...he was stress whining constantly, trying to figure out how a ball could be both in the crate and out on the rug. He figured it out it last night...went after "his ball" right away and quietly dropped it in the crate. Brodie's got it figured out, I think, but he doesn't quite dare do it. He's starting to fetch when he's alone, but not in a crowd as yet, even when we give him a chance. When I say "ball", he immediately goes to stand by his and occasionally pushes it around, but doesn't pick it up yet. We bring it back together and he pushes it into the crate. I think he's got me trained to fetch a ball .

 

Liz

[juliepoudrier]

Robin has a Zac and I know she uses the "back" command, and I don't think she's had any trouble with it. I had a Simon here and I wondered if he would be confused with Simon, lie down, lie, and time, but he seemed to understand the difference. We often advise folks to make sure the *first* note of their whistle commands is different for each command, so the Swift/Twist thing notwithstanding, I wonder if the dog would simply distinguish between the "Zzz" and "Buh" sounds that start the name and the command.

 

J.

[Root Beer]

I wonder if the dog would simply distinguish between the "Zzz" and "Buh" sounds that start the name and the command.

 

It may be that the dogs learn to listen for the sounds of the words that we use frequently. I taught Dean to distinguish between "Chin" (lie down and put your chin on the floor) and "Pin" (spin clockwise). Normally I would change a cue that sounds a lot like another, but I was very attached to using "chin" as the cue for the chin move. He did confuse them for a period of time, but I cleared that up by using just the "Ch" as the chin cue for a while. Now I say chin and pin and he does know which is which.

 

I'd still probably tend to avoid something like that with the dog's name, though, and really important words that I use a lot. Another preference thing.

[JohnLloydJones]

I wonder if the dog would simply distinguish between the "Zzz" and "Buh" sounds that start the name and the command.

For people the "Zzz" sound and the "Buh" sound are easily distinguished. We shouldn't automatically assume the same is true for dogs, though in this case it appears to be the case. Do you (or anyone else) have examples of the Twist/Swift sort of cases that dogs find hard to distinguish?

 

[bTW: it is also possible that "Zac", the name and "back", the command, were distinguishable to the dog by tone, stress or even context. We, ourselves, use lots of clues to disambiguate words that are hard to distinguish. ]

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

Not uncommonly Sheepdoggers change the names and whistle command of trained dogs they've purchased. Clearly dogs are able to adjust at least as well as I did when i went from Donald to "Private McCaig, sir."

 

The pure sound of a word isn't as important up close and personal. I don't recall any particular command to whisk four dogs into a motel room I've rented for "me and my dog" but they understand the need for speed. And our commands change. Unless one has a reference tape, whistles gradually migrate, and voice commands sound different depending on health and tension.

 

Yet I have had dogs refuse familiar whistles when I abruptly changed from a plastic whistle to metal.

 

Donald McCaig

[JohnLloydJones]

Yet I have had dogs refuse familiar whistles when I abruptly changed from a plastic whistle to metal.

Probably because of overtones that they can hear, but we can't. How long did it take for them to adjust to the new whistle?

[juliepoudrier]

Case in point: Yesterday Laura was here and I needed some sheep moved and my dog Pip was out in the yard with Laura while I was down in one of the paddocks. She got Pip and worked him moving some sheep for me, using her version of my whistles, which were actually much lower-toned than my whistle set. Pip took all her whistles just fine. (He's a sheep whore--he'll work for anyone, no matter what their whistles! ).

 

I think at least with training stockdogs that our body language and context play a big role in the dog's confusion or lack thereof. For example, if I say "Back!" while pointing a crook at the ground near the dog's shoulder, the dog is going to give ground, even if it might think I'm using its name rather than giving a command. I honestly believe they can distinguish subtle sound differences--how else can they distinguish whistles at great distances?

 

J.

[Pipedream Farm]

Dear Doggers,

If one intends to do stockwork it is well to avoid names that sound very much like commands. If you often say "Back" forinstance, it's probably unwise to name your dog "Mack" or "Zack."

 

Donald McCaig

Donald,

 

I think you do not give these dogs enough credit. Renee's Rae NEVER got her name confused with away (often shortened to 'way).

 

Mark

[JohnLloydJones]

I think you do not give these dogs enough credit. Renee's Rae NEVER got her name confused with away (often shortened to 'way).

Personally, I am constantly amazed at their ability to distinguish words, not only as single words, but in phrases and sentences.

[ejano]

I'm preparing my Intro to Lit lesson and found some notes on Robert Burns...in the poem "The Twa Dogs", a conversation between a Newfoundland with an aristocratic owner and a Border Collie living with a farmer, Burns calls the Border Collie the "ploughman's collie" who, by the way, convinces the Newfoundland that the yeoman farmer has the happier life. This dog is named Luath.

 

Liz

 

From "The Twa Dogs" by Robert Burns

 

The tither was a ploughman's collie,

A rhyming, ranting, raving billie,

Wha for his friend an' comrade had him,

And in his freaks had Luath ca'd him,

After some dog in Highland sang,

Was made lang syne - Lord knows how lang.

(lines 23-28)

[bcnewe2]

Renee's Rae NEVER got her name confused with away (often shortened to 'way).

 

My Ray (Raven) has never gotten those 2 confused either, and I use way more then away. Way would mean a shorter flank than Aaaaway which would mean a long one, at least for me.

I said earlier, I think they know the difference from tone of voice if you're saying a command or their name. Dew was my example. She absloutly knows the dif between that'll DO and Dew. maybe it's the that'll part but I think it's the difference in my tone of comands compared to names.

 

Hell, there's not much they don't understand, cept when I'm only calling one to work, then they all suddenly think they have the name, the one I called!

Or if I'm handing out tidbits of food calling them by name on who gets the treat. Then again, they all have the same names or at least they think they should.

[Donald McCaig]

Had a dog called "Mack" who was confused by "Back". Might be that some sylable combos are more easily confused or may be we don't pronounce them the same as the name. For some of us it's "A-WAAY" for others "AHWAY" and for others "A-WEEE") and I'm sure there are others. Most handlers adopt their mentor's pronunciations.

 

I suspect novice pronunciations are more consistent than their whistles which tend to warble all over the place - if for no reason than somewhere, in the novice's heart of hearts, he (she) believes the reason the dog didn't take that mistimed command was the dog didn't HEAR it - hence, repetition of the magic mantra.

 

Donald McCaig

[Mark Billadeau]

In addition to tonal qualities, there is also a contextual part to this discussion. Dogs learn commands for working stock, but they are unlikely to take these commands if heard while away from stock (like in the house); they might get excited anticipating stock work. Rae's name was not likely to be used while she was flanking. However, a handler may use the dog's name while working up close to mean come in which could confuse a dog if its name sounds like get back.

 

Mark

[Shoofly]

Never been a problem with Zac and "back", and the place i use "back" the most is in shedding - It's my widen out flank on the right. So i might say something like "back, that'll do, here" as a sequence to get a wide flank then call him in through a hole. No problems, ever. To add even more complexity, i use my dogs' names as a call in on flanks, etc. So, i might say "back" to widen the start of a right flank, then say "Zac" to call him in a bit if i want the same flank to tighten up a bit (say if he over-took the back and was going wider than i wanted).

[SoloRiver]

I don't think anyone here is confused about which side of the divide I'm on, but I LOVE making up fancy name/call name combos for my own amusement. Yes, I know it is not done in working dogs, but my first introduction to "dog people" was among dog "fanciers" (note: I have never owned a show dog, nor for that matter a show-bred representative of any breed), and it's a habit that dies hard, especially if you like words.

 

I admit to being kind of bored -- not disapproving, but bored -- by the practice of naming Border Collies according to a fairly short list of traditional names. That said, all three of my dogs have fairly conventional names: Fly came with her name, Jett's name was her litter name and is only "different" because it has an extra T, and I thought Solo was an original name when I named him (he is named after the original Homo erectus fossil site, which was along the banks of the Solo River in Indonesia) but then when I started working him everyone thought I'd named him after "Ethel Conrad's dog." I subsequently learned that practically every Border Collie ever born as a singleton is named "Solo." (For the record, my Solo was one of nine according to his papers, which also claim that his name is "Franklin." Ugh.)

 

I don't use my dog's "fancy names" officially. They are just for me. Well, I did enter Fly in her first sheepdog trial as "Firefly" to distinguish her from all the other dogs named Fly out there, but I caught so much joshing for it that I gave up on that. If we are still up on the NEBCA novice points page, I think her points are still listed under "Firefly." Solo is Ashfall Solo River (Ashfall is the "kennel name" I attach to rescue dogs, and is the name of a lagerstatte in Nebraska) only on his USDAA and NADAC registrations. Skeeter, my ex-Papillon, was Ashfall Anopheles on his USDAA card. I thought that name was extremely clever. Jett isn't recorded as Steadfast Blackheart anywhere but in my head, but that's OK because I might be the only person who thinks that name is as cool as I think it is. I was very tickled when I thought of it though.

 

When it comes to names being cultural markers -- and I completely agree that they are -- I think that sport names are just as distinctive as foofy show dog names are. My absolute least favorites are the "themes of violence" names like Mayhem, or Havoc, names I cannot imagine naming a dog that I actually like. Actually, names like that get my back up more than "dog fancy" names do, but that's because I think the sport (agility and flyball) dogs are a much bigger threat to the integrity of the breed than the show dogs are.

[bcnewe2]

Most handlers adopt their mentor's pronunciations.

 

Ahhh yes....my Away is really Quay...can you guess who my mentor is?

That'd be hard to use if I was calling Ray.

Lie Down is Lie Dune. but that's almost slipped back a reg. Lie Down. Unless the dog is a long way off, I usually whisper that command. They like it better that quay!

[geonni banner]

My last show-bred rough Collie was named Jo-Lee's (Breeder's kennel name) Continental Drift - call name Sensei. I named him after a song written by Jagger/Richards for Brian Jones. (I think it's on the Steel Wheels album.) The breeder had a cow over the name - wanted me to name him something else so she could use the name for her up-and-coming show dog. When I refused she tried to get me to give him the call name Drifter. I never liked that name - all the dogs I ever met with that name seemed to be two cards short of a full deck.

Sensei turned out to be a great dog. Showed him once at GGKC show - before I knew any better. He won his class. He was the only one in it. But I used to brag that he got a blue ribbon at the Cow Palace Show. Ah, foolish youth...

[NorthfieldNick]

Skeeter, my ex-Papillon, was Ashfall Anopheles on his USDAA card. I thought that name was extremely clever.

 

This is the best name ever. I love it. Well, I hope he wasn't named because he buzzed around your head at night & drew blood. Oh, wait, "his." They don't bite.

 

Hi, I am also a geek

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

Having begun a post deploring the Dog Fancier's arrogance naming breeds and dogs, I get to enjoy examples of such clever, clever naming. Only just I suppose.

 

Donald McCaig

[Jeanne Joy]

When you consider that dogs are often an extension of the human ego it is easy to understand why people sometimes choose the names they do. In the show world, names are often used as a marketing tool.

 

For others, names play an important role in tradition with the idea a name should be meaningful. The custom in naming Quarter horses indicates the animal's ancestry. For example, Peppy San Badger (sired by Mr. San Peppy out of Sugar Badger by Grey Badger) or Doc Bar who (sired by Doc Bar and out of Poco Lena) and Doc O' Lena (by Doc Bar and out of Poco Lena who was by Poco Bueno).