jdarling Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Does anyone know where I can find some statistics on epilepsy in the Border Collie? A friend of mine put me in contact with someone who had a heartbreaking experience with a pup she bought that turned out to be epileptic, and she was asking me how big the problem is in the breed as a whole. I know Melanie was doing a blood collection at the finals, and I went to search that website to see if any type of results were posted from the samples they gathered, but I can't get on to the website. Not sure if it's my computer or what ... www.k9behavioralgenetics.com Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I do not know the rates of epilepsy in our breed; however, Dr. Mark Neff has ongoing research looking for the genetic markers of this disease in our breed and his work is currently limited by the number of samples from affected dogs. He is currently setting up new research group and a process by which he can receive samples. I would really appreciate hearing from your friend if she is willing to enroll her dog in the study. Mark Billadeau ABCA Health & Genetics Committee Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I would really appreciate hearing from your friend if she is willing to enroll her dog in the study. Thanks Mark. I wish I could send her to you. She returned the dog to the breeder, and the breeder ended up placing the dog with an elderly couple. I think this is how that went. I'll double check. Jodi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yes, she returned the dog to the breeder, and the breeder placed the dog with an elderly couple, and never compensated the original owner of the pup either with giving her the money back or replacing the pup or anything, and further stating that none of the other pups in the litter had it, and ending up getting very defensive about it. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Canine Epilepsy Research (Univ MN/MO) (As of Sept 2006) Dr. Ned Patterson, one of the lead researchers (if that's the proper term) on the above study also did a presentation at Tufts Canine and Feline Breeding and Genetics Conference in 2007 and below is a summary of the statistics (maybe based upon the numbers at the above link, but I am not going to do the math ). The Border Collie is at the top of his list. I don't remember where I found the article below, otherwise I would provide a link. Perhaps it was even posted on this board? Clinical Characteristics and Inheritance of Idiopathic EpilepsyTufts' Canine and Feline Breeding and Genetics Conference, 2007 Edward (Ned) Patterson, DVM, PhD, DACVIM (SAIM) University of Minnesota College of Veterinary Medicine, St. Paul, MN, USA A search of idiopathic epilepsy diagnoses from all contributing North American Veterinary Colleges was performed by comparing breed, age, and sex of all first time canine admissions for epilepsy in a specific breed versus all admissions for that specific breed from 1987 to 1997. Overall, the percentage of epilepsy admissions by breed ranged from 0.12% to 2.01% with an all-breed average, including mixed breeds, of 0.82% (Table 1). Table 1 - Percentage of First Times Admissions by Breed for Canine Idiopathic Epilepsy Breed % All 0.82 Border Collie 2.01 Schipperke 1.98 Saint Bernard 1.92 Germ SHP 1.78 Keeshond 1.72 Irish Setter 1.68 Siberian Husky 1.63 Pug 1.45 English Springer 1.30 Dalmatian 1.28 American Eskimo 1.25 Giant Schnauzer 1.23 Shetland Sheep 1.20 Golden Retriever 1.20 Vizsla 1.17 Belgian Sheepdog 1.16 Boston Terrier 1.16 Poodle - Min 1.15 Jack Russell 1.14 Belgian Tervuren 1.13 Brittany Spaniel 1.09 Poodle - Toy 1.09 Poodle standard 1.07 Norwegian Elkhound 1.03 Bernese Mountain 1.02 Welsh Terrier 1.02 Chesapeake Bay 0.98 Std Schnauzer 0.96 German Shepherd 0.95 Dachshund long 0.95 Schnauzer - mini 0.94 Alaskan Malamute 0.93 Australian Shep 0.93 Pomeranian 0.87 Pekinese 0.86 Scottish Terrier - 0.85 Germ Wire HP 0.83 Lhasa Apso 0.83 Mini Pinscher 0.83 Great Pyrenees 0.82 Welsh Corgi 0.82 Mixed Breed 0.81 American Cocker 0.81 Blood hound 0.81 Labrador Retriever 0.80 Weimaraner 0.79 Basenji 0.77 Rhodesian Ridge 0.76 Maltese 0.75 Fox Terrier 0.74 Boxer 0.74 Beagle 0.73 Collie 0.71 Yorkshire Terrier 0.71 Mastiff 0.71 Cairn Terrier 0.71 Chihuahua 0.70 Borzoi 0.69 Aust Cattle Dog 0.67 Dachshund, mini 0.67 Welsh Corgi 0.66 Whippet 0.65 Engl Cocker Span 0.65 Airedale Terrier 0.61 Basset Hound 0.60 Black/ Tan Coon 0.59 English Setter 0.57 Shih Tzu 0.52 Great Dane 0.52 Bulldog 0.50 Bedlington Terrier 0.50 Border Terrier 0.48 Bull Terrier 0.46 Fox Terrier Toy 0.45 Bichon Frise 0.45 Silky Terrier 0.45 Samoyed 0.44 Flat Coat Retriever 0.44 Dachshund 0.41 Akita 0.40 Shar-pei 0.38 Afghan Hound 0.38 West Highland Terr 0.37 Greyhound 0.37 Irish Wolfhound 0.29 Doberman Pins 0.28 Am Staff Terrier 0.27 Rottweiler 0.26 Pointer 0.26 Old Engl Sheep 0.26 Newfoundland 0.25 Bouvier Des Fland 0.25 Chow Chow 0.19 Gordon Setter 0.19 Soft Wheaton 0.13 Bullmastiff 0.12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Wow. Thanks Megan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Hi Megan, Do you know how they defined "percentage of epilepsy admissions by breed"? Am I reading this correctly = epilepsy admissions for breed/total admissions for breed? Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 The way I read this.... 10 years worth of admissions to vet colleges for diagnosis of epilepsy were reviewed. Of those admissions (likely with epilepsy), 2% of those were for Border Collies. IOWs, 2% of epileptic dogs are Border Collies. This is not the same thing as saying 2% of all Border Collies have epilepsy. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 I agree, Mark, and I would also have questions about the other definition . . . Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Kim & Mark, honestly I'm not sure, but I'd be happy to email it to whomever would like to see the full summary. Just PM me with your email address. There might be something in it that I didn't include in my quotes that would answer those questions or further clarify. I have saved it as a Word doc so I must have copied and pasted it from somewhere but I don't remember where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 The way I read this.... 10 years worth of admissions to vet colleges for diagnosis of epilepsy were reviewed. Of those admissions (likely with epilepsy), 2% of those were for Border Collies. IOWs, 2% of epileptic dogs are Border Collies. This is not the same thing as saying 2% of all Border Collies have epilepsy. Mark I don't even read it that way. This is what we have to go on: by comparing breed, age, and sex of all first time canine admissions for epilepsy in a specific breed versus all admissions for that specific breed from 1987 to 1997 It sounds to me as if he's calculating percentage of admissions for epilepsy in breed X relative to all admissions for breed X. If that's right, then I don't think the percentages are meaningful at all. If you have a breed with multiple serious health problems, then it stands to reason that the epilepsy percentage will be lower in that breed than in a breed with few other serious health problems, because there will be so many admissions for other things in the unhealthy breed to drive the percentage down. Am I reading it wrong? That does seem like a whacko percentage to want to compute, but that's what he seems to be saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Do all the numbers for all breeds listed add up to 100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkshipley Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Dr. Mark Neff has ongoing research looking for the genetic markers of this disease in our breed and his work is currently limited by the number of samples from affected dogs. He is currently setting up new research group and a process by which he can receive samples. I would really appreciate hearing from your friend if she is willing to enroll her dog in the study. Mark, I'd be nore then happy to send my dog's blood work and pedigree and diagnosis or whatever else Dr. Neff might need, I can also ask the owner of a litter sister of my dog and am certain she will be happy to provide samples. Best, Jen Flute AAD, AX, OAJ, OAC, OGC, NAJ - semi-retired ADCH Enna TM - Silver, SACH, GCH, SCH, JCH, RCH, MX, MXJ - rescued champion Rising Sun's Hot to the Touch - aka: Fever - retired due to epilepsy Ignited's Molten Rush, aka: Lava - BC puppy in training Kasi EAC,EGC,EJC, OA,OAJ - (1992-2007) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 I don't even read it that way. This is what we have to go on:It sounds to me as if he's comparing percentage of admissions for epilepsy in breed X to percentage of all admissions for breed X. If that's right, then I don't think the percentages are meaningful at all. If you have a breed with multiple serious health problems, then it stands to reason that the epilepsy percentage will be lower in that breed than in a breed with few other serious health problems, because there will be so many admissions for other things in the unhealthy breed to drive the percentage down. Am I reading it wrong? That does seem like a whacko percentage to want to compute, but that's what he seems to be saying. This is what I thought was being said. And, if so, felt the same as you do, Eileen, that these percentages were rather meaningless. In that case, if the Border Collie tends to be a particularly healthy breed, or tends to not be taken to the vet less frequently for whatever reason, then (all other things being equal) the Border Collie would appear to have a higher percentage of visits due to epilepsy. Either way, I did feel that just what was being computed and the rationale for that method was not clearly stated in the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Do all the numbers for all breeds listed add up to 100? Good question. I assume you mean do all these breed percentages, beginning with 2.01 (border collie) and continuing down to .12 (Bullmastiff) add up to 100. The answer is no. Nothing close to 100. So that argues against Mark's interpretation, right? But why the heck would anyone want to calculate epilepsy admissions for breed/total admissions for breed? I'm missing why that would give you any information worth having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Good question. I assume you mean do all these breed percentages, beginning with 2.01 (border collie) and continuing down to .12 (Bullmastiff) add up to 100. The answer is no. Nothing close to 100. So that argues against Mark's interpretation, right? Right. If it were 2% of all epilepsy diagnoses are border collies then all of the breeds' percentages would need to add up to 100%. So it must be what you said before: he's calculating percentage of admissions for epilepsy in breed X relative to all admissions for breed X. If that's right, then I don't think the percentages are meaningful at all. If you have a breed with multiple serious health problems, then it stands to reason that the epilepsy percentage will be lower in that breed than in a breed with few other serious health problems, because there will be so many admissions for other things in the unhealthy breed to drive the percentage down. It seems very skewed. But why the heck would anyone want to calculate epilepsy admissions for breed/total admissions for breed? I have no idea. I did search for any publication of these stats and also looked through a subscription service I get for conference proceedings and found nothing. That doesn't mean it's not out there somewhere; I just didn't find anything. Nevertheless, it's generally accepted that dogs in general, whether purebred or mixed breed, have about a 1-2% incidence of epilepsy. I wouldn't be surprised to find the incidence in border collies on the high end of that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I just emailed the article to Kim. Hopefully she can make sense out of the statistics or find the right language that tells us what was being measured to come up with those percentages. I probably left out some hugely relevent paragraph that would have explained it properly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 From what Megan sent me, the table appears to be part of notes from a presentation about idiopathic epilepsy ("Clinical Characteristics and Inheritance of Idiopathic Epilepsy") in dogs given at the Tufts' Canine and Feline Breeding and Genetics Conference in 2007. The incidence of ideopathic epilepsy in dogs is clearly not the focus of the presentation. And no additional information was given concerning how the author defined percentage of admissions / breed other than what Megan cited. The authors' own work seems to focus on Vizslas. I have a feeling that the authors had the data and decided to throw it in as background info . . . Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Another way they authors could have come up with the percentages is: 2% of Border Collies first time admissions admissions to Tufts over the 10 years period were for epilepsy and for all dogs the percentage of first time admissions for epilepsy was 0.82% In any of these cases the 2% for Border Collies does not reflect the rate of epilepsy in the breed. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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